Gun Control

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by ElamEno

Nope you are all a bunch of 'Haters'.

Sorry could not resist...

Shit I forgot to add, that we need to keep it down, dont want to wake up Malwoody

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Your figure was 30,000. What was the total of vehicle deaths?

WYF does vehicle deaths have to do with this thread? Just deflecting?

[lacrew_2000]

Dirty Dawg, I read your proposal to move assault weapons to class III. But what differentiates an assault weapon from a semi-automatic hunting rifle?

It might be a higher velocity...but that isn't a factor in these close range massacres.

There are the large magazines....but some hunting rifles accept large aftermarket mags.

I think the pistol grip might make it different, and easier to use in these close in situations. Also they are slightly shorter than most rifles...making them easier to use indoors. But don't those two items mean that being closer to a pistol makes them more deadly than a hunting rifle? And lets face it...pistols are alot deadlier statistically than assault rifles. And down the slope we go.

Sandy Hook was so newsworthy because it was a rare anomaly. The carnage there is matched each month in Chicago....but it isn't newsworthy. It is worth noting that the 400 plus yearly murders in Chicago are primarily committed with pistols. Logically, if the goal is to reduce death, shouldn't pistols be the first order of business?

Lets close the gun show loophole, increase achool security - and that's more than just guards....and not be afraid to recognize the obvious: the vast majority of these massacres are committed by young men on mind altering medication. They are usually intelligent, inventive, and driven. No law is going to stand in their way.....most have to steal guns, build homemade bombs, or go 'above and beyond' anyway....and they seem to enjoy these planning steps....gun laws will not deter them.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

WYF does vehicle deaths have to do with this thread? Just deflecting?

Not at all but you throw out some figure which includes suicides, accidents, police actions so the only premise I can make from that is that your saying no guns 30,000 people are alive, my response no cars how many lives do we save, hell replace cars with alcohol, if anything your deflecting or purposefully skewing your statstics to help bolster your case.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

Dirty Dawg, I read your proposal to move assault weapons to class III. But what differentiates an assault weapon from a semi-automatic hunting rifle?

It might be a higher velocity...but that isn't a factor in these close range massacres.

There are the large magazines....but some hunting rifles accept large aftermarket mags.

I think the pistol grip might make it different, and easier to use in these close in situations. Also they are slightly shorter than most rifles...making them easier to use indoors. But don't those two items mean that being closer to a pistol makes them more deadly than a hunting rifle? And lets face it...pistols are alot deadlier statistically than assault rifles. And down the slope we go.

Sandy Hook was so newsworthy because it was a rare anomaly. The carnage there is matched each month in Chicago....but it isn't newsworthy. It is worth noting that the 400 plus yearly murders in Chicago are primarily committed with pistols. Logically, if the goal is to reduce death, shouldn't pistols be the first order of business?

Lets close the gun show loophole, increase achool security - and that's more than just guards....and not be afraid to recognize the obvious: the vast majority of these massacres are committed by young men on mind altering medication. They are usually intelligent, inventive, and driven. No law is going to stand in their way.....most have to steal guns, build homemade bombs, or go 'above and beyond' anyway....and they seem to enjoy these planning steps....gun laws will not deter them.

Ah Crew, your using logic and thats not fair, honestly I have conceded in my mind that were going to lose this argument, just trying to interject an idea as an alternative to a ban. We have to much to overcome, the liberal agenda, gun control lobby, media etc. Their mind is already made up, especially Barrys, they can parade around like their really wanting to hear from all sides but its crap. If they were using reason, they would realize that the V-tech shooter killed 32 people with a 9mm pistol. As for your question, your answer is any rifle with a 20 plus capasity with a military history. The AR, AK, SKS, M14, FNL, HK, etc. Your preaching to the choir.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Not at all but you throw out some figure which includes suicides, accidents, police actions so the only premise I can make from that is that your saying no guns 30,000 people are alive, my response no cars how many lives do we save, hell replace cars with alcohol, if anything your deflecting or purposefully skewing your statstics to help bolster your case.

If they are dead they are dead deflect all you wish end of story.

[BigMikeinKC]

DD - misinterpret what I wrote and jump to collusions that are not correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMikeinKC
Why do people claim that the rights given in the Constitution are God given. The writers of the Constitution were not gods, although it seems like many have elevated them to that position. No they were not gods but the principles then instilled via the constitution are the principles which have made this country the strongest superpower on the planet.I never debated the principles of the Constitution. I am however, sick of people who treat FFs like gods. I am a believer also of the first commandment. Why is it that people like you Mike have no problem with the other admendments written into the bill of rights, those seem to be good enough, but then they meet the requirments for the life that you want to live. If you see my statements earlier, you will see that I have no problem with people owning guns, you have jumped to a false conclusion. No apologies needed but you owe me a drink. The only amendment I had a problem with was Prohibition but they fixed that.

Why does everyone claim that people misinterpret the 2nd amendment if their interpretation does not agree with theirs. Until the gutless wonders on the SC take a real case and give an actual interpretation, The gutless wonders on the supreme court have given an actual interpretation in DC VS Heller the court held that
The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.
It sounds as if this was not an interrpretation that you agreed withsee above I will also be more tedious in my research, but it is the law of the land. It should be noted that the court did also say that although the right to own firearms is individual it did also state that the state and federal government can regulate it. Hense were back to the problem. But its doubtful that a case will ever come out that says that the individual has a right to own an AK47 or another specific "assualt" weapon.
people can argue what it really means. Thomas Jefferson is not one of the voices in my head, so I can't ask him what he really meant.

The countries of Europe are no longer those our father fled. Most are now republics or democracies. While it may seem as if this admendment is very ambigous, it has been in fact broken down and defined through out the years by consitutional scholars and the courts. I found a breakdown which was easiest for laymen to understand. Here it is

The importance of this article will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.

As I've said before try to keep guns out of the hands of the "mentally ill" is a very slippery slope and beside how many times have you heard " he was such a nice neighbor, never bothered anyone. Mike I have been giving a lot of thought to our earlier conversation, and I have come to the conclusion that anyone electing to apply to purchase a weapon surrenders his right protecting his mental history voluntarily when he/she enters into the process of purchasing a weapon.I would disagree with this, I have stated that defining the mentally ill is the problem and that is the slipperly slope I refer too. Look if I honestly believed that banning assualt weapons would elminate the danger to our children I would be all for it, but my experience, past bans and common reason says it wont, its just an emotional response a serious situation. Will looking at a persons mental history eliminate a person from becoming crazy or from a border line case stepping over the line, no, but to we really want people who have been diagnosed with Schizophrenia whether they are on medication or not have a weapon, we dont allow people with historys of seizures to drive.Just to point out, driving is not a Constitutional right But I also dont this that the only answer nor do I blame video games. I believe that just because you have the right to own a weapon that you can do so without responsibilities, its your responsibility to secure your weapon so that it is not stolen and used for a crime. Its every gun buyers responsibility to have a gun legally transfered when conducting a person to person sale, this way everyone gets a back ground check. Whether this is law or not its smart to do it, that way if the gun is used in a crime they police dont come looking for the last registered owner, the seller. But each gun owner has the moral responsibility to ensure that the guns they are selling are not getting into the hands of felons, criminals and mentally challenged persons.we agree

Gun control, honestly even if you want it, its too late. Too many guns out there to regulate, whatever is put in place is not going to work.

But with the clamor going on about armed guards in our schools, I can see the future. Every store, school, means of public transportation, mall, public gathering place while have armed security so that we feel safe. We have them everywhere now, except schools outside the inner city. But you cant go anywhere without a guard, its been that way for a while. Look around, there are Arrowhead, the bank, walmart, greyhound terminal, city hall, public library etc etc.Exactly my point and it will continue to grow

[BigMikeinKC]

Neither here nor there and not throwing this into the debate about gun control, but making a smart ass remark -

Real hunters don't need a semi-automatic, they are good enough to get it done with one shot. Sounds like the firing range is needed for some people....

[BigMikeinKC]

BTW - With a topic like this, I appreciate the fact that it has remained rather civil.

Other than the comment towards me of "people like you" I have not felt attacked for any views I have stated. My hurt feeling will be properly healed when I am bought that drink. Shall we say 8 PM at old Cascones? You get the drinks and I'll get the meal.

[deacon]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

People with guns only kill 30,000 Americans a year men women and children.that is a drop in the bucket why worry about guns?

,,,how many are killed by baseball bats,cars,tobacco,die on motorcycles and in swimming pools? this isnt about a solution to making our children more safe its about a agenda on control by the liberals.

[i'va biggen]

Deflecting? thread is about guns end of story.

[deacon]

Real hunters don't need a semi-automatic, they are good enough to get it done with one shot. Sounds like the firing range is needed for some people....//////////////////.....this is laughable obviously you dont know much about hunting. have you ever been pheasant hunting in south dakota or have you ever shot green heads over decoys? do you realize there is a difference between semi and fully auto? what about pumps are you ok with those are should we outlaw the remington 870 as well?

[deacon]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

Deflecting? thread is about guns end of story.

/////////////gun control is not about guns nice try though and if thats what you wish it to be have at it. its about control period

[Mr. Crowley]

We are all free to deify, fetishize, or otherwise hold in high regard the men who managed to take the best attributes of other forms of government, install checks and balances and make it very difficult to remove our GOD GIVEN rights. Gods, no, intelligent, experienced, often prescient, imperfect and all too human.

Those rights that human nature, those that seem to part of the human condition, that common sense would say are yearnings of the human spirit, are built into the DNA, are called god given. Freedom, self determination, self preservation, ownership of property are some of the things we were born with. I didn't need a constitution to yearn to be free. I'm glad it is there, so that my rights, as long as we remain a nation of law, are documented so that people who have their hair on fire to "just do something" don't infringe my rights. That constitution some of you hold in disdain is alll that stands between you and the mob that may want your head one day.

I will be happy to teach those of you who don't hold the US Constitution in high regard, by quartering troops in your house! Greatest document the world has ever seen!

As for Europe not being the same country, you are aware GB still has a queen, right? France is a socialist state that is in chaos. They have evolved closer to a US form of government, the big difference being their constitutions.

Everybody stand up, put your hand over your heart and recite the pledge of allegiance! (or don't, your right if you choose not to. Dirty communist, lol)

[BottomFeederKC]

Oops.

Instead of discussing guns on this hooker site, I accidentally started discussing hookers on a popular gun site. I hate when that happens.

Cocked, loaded, recoil, chambers, butts, muzzle, hammers, hollow points, rim fire, big guns, projectiles, packin': I get confused sometimes.