French war planes flying over Lybia

[davec.0121]

NATO certainly has a lot of value, even now when the Evil Empire has gone away. It provides a good umbrella organization to coordinate activities and provide unified command and control.

The UN has done a lot of useful work, particularly in the area of refugees, world health, etc. However, the political aspect is sometimes (usually) farcical. The Security Council is generally a long-winded talking shop because all the earnest and strongly worded resolutions are generally ignored unless some member state is willing to step up and provide the power needed to enforce them. And, of course, who does everyone automatically expect to step up and provide said power. A perfect example is the Balkans in the mid-90's, where all the resolutions and blue-helmeted UN peacekeepers were meaningless until the U.S. got involved (e.g., the Dayton agreements). A counter-example is Darfur, where the UN has essentially been impotent to stop the mass murder by the Sudanese. Maybe that's not the way it's supposed to be, but that's the way it is.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by BigLouie

... the rest of you, it is pretty obvious you HATE the fact that Obama is President and Black. Nothing you can do about it so just get over it. ...

As for me, I don't "HATE" anyone or thing, even those who try to intimidate by suggesting I "HATE" someone because they are "Black,", but ... I do feel sorry for pathetic creatures, who cannot find their ass with both hands off a basket ball court ... even as a "community organizer"!

As for the second pathetic comment:

Yes, there is something that can be done. Comes in November 2012.

The sad part is, it will probably be easier for "us" to get Obama out of "office" than it will for Obama to get Gladaffi out of his "office" ... and Gladaffi knows it!

Besides you can say all you want about Bush, but:

http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/32007.pdf

"On December 19, 2003, Libya announced it would dismantle its weapons of mass destruction (WMD) and ballistic missile programs. Since then, U.S., British, and international officials have inspected and removed or destroyed key components of those programs, and Libya has provided valuable information, particularly about foreign suppliers. Libya’s WMD disarmament is a critical step towards reintegration into the world community, and a necessary but probably not sufficient prerequisite for lifting U.S. sanctions. This report will be updated as needed. See also CRS Issue Brief IB 93109,

Libya, by Clyde Mark."

Let's see, what was Obaminable doing?

[BigLouie]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

There were no impeachable offenses with Bush

Oh really, try reading this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts...George_W._Bush

There was actually a pretty good vote to impeach Bush with some very serious charges.

[texasjohn1965]

Originally Posted by BigLouie

Oh really, try reading this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts...George_W._Bush

There was actually a pretty good vote to impeach Bush with some very serious charges.

Can't let go?

GWB is long gone, find a new pinata.

Let's see what hope and change bring for 2012.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by BigLouie

.... with some very serious charges.

How Barack Obama Became Mr. Unpopular
TIME

By MICHAEL SCHERER Michael Scherer

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2010090...08599201562900

______________________________ ______________________________ ____

The good thing for Obaminable is that he knows the mayor of Chicago, who will probably hook him up with some more ...

..... "community organizing"! ..... "probably" ... not sure yet.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by davec.0121

NATO certainly has a lot of value,


The UN has done a lot of useful work, .....

As for NATO:

http://www.acus.org/files/ISP/111910...NATOBudget.pdf

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5310375,00.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_801515.html

"The FY 2010 defense budget (*U.S.) was $533.8 billion -- excluding the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. If you add those in, it comes out to a whopping $663.8 billion, which is "more than the combined defense expenditures of the next 17 countries."
Korb estimates that approximately 20 percent of the baseline defense budget is NATO-related, resulting in about $100 billion in spending each year. (Pinpointing the exact number is tricky, however, since many of the assets the United States provides NATO are used for other purposes.)"
*Added by Poster.
____________________End quoted material____________________

The one thing I admire about Obaminable is that he is consistent in his "pea and shell" game in which he has convinced himself that 99% of the people who still listen to him actually believe his bullshit. I actually believe the thinks his wife still does. It is actually insulting, that he believes he can fool ..... even the Liberals.

More snake oil.

As for "the U.N." ... when was the last time it DID anything?

"Oil for Food"?

[essence]

So, do you propose scrapping the UN and NATO and the US going it alone? Do you see any dangers there?

Is the huge US defense spending a good or bad thing? Is it at an appropriate level for the purpose? Is it misplaced, and significantly weakens the economic base of the US, thus leaving it prey to emerging economic powers (miitary power and economic power are close bedfellows) ?

Is the US military used to artificially reduce unemployment figures? Is the US military a last option for many of the ambitious but disaffected youth?

[a lot of young British guys sign up because they don't see many other options in their vicinity - I know Houston friends - female - who seriously consider the military because it will give them an education and health care which they cannot obtain elsewhere].

Is the defense budget carefully managed? There are many concerns over management of UK defense budget.

etc. etc. etc.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by essence

So, do you propose scrapping the UN and NATO and the US going it alone? Do you see any dangers there?

Is the huge US defense spending a good or bad thing? Is it at an appropriate level for the purpose? Is it misplaced, and significantly weakens the economic base of the US, thus leaving it prey to emerging economic powers (miitary power and economic power are close bedfellows) ?

Is the US military used to artificially reduce unemployment figures? Is the US military a last option for many of the ambitious but disaffected youth?

[a lot of young British guys sign up because they don't see many other options in their vicinity - I know Houston friends - female - who seriously consider the military because it will give them an education and health care which they cannot obtain elsewhere].

Is the defense budget carefully managed? There are many concerns over management of UK defense budget.

etc. etc. etc.

I was just going to ignore this thread. I was going to respond to your Raphael isn’t anti-American view, but decided not to. But, honestly and please – if you live in the UK, what do you care what or how much we spend on defense as long as we have one? The UK aren’t doing so well either just now. The economic strife is worldwide. What do you think would happen to the world’s economy if the US economy were to fail? We’re going to get a glimpse of that with Japan’s economy teetering on the edge. What do you think would happen to the world if our military were to be rendered ineffective or we opted to pull back to an isolationist stance? Good luck is what comes to mind. Like I told Raphael, your resentment only flatters us.

[essence]

Err..

What resentment? I think you have the wrong person, and have me confused with somebody else.

Yes, I do care about the US and its people, I spend a lot of time there, have more US friends than UK friends.

I not only care about the US economy and its people and its health care, it directly affects me through my lady friends who are looking for jobs or need medical attention.

My uncle was in the army and spent a lot of time in ? Arizona, he dealt with procurement. The father of a friend of my son is in the helicopter business, all those helicopters parked near Fort Hood come from his company (or something like that).

US and UK are joined at the hip, at least militarily, although one side of the hip is a bit/lot heavier than the other.

The best and only worthwhile friends are those who gently point out shortcomings and prick some pomposity.

I think maybe too much information....

ps I didn't say Raphael was or was not anti american, I just said his posts here were not anti american.

Differences between the essential nature, and the outward behaviour. Hence my name essence

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by essence

Err..

What resentment? I think you have the wrong person, and have me confused with somebody else.

Yes, I do care about the US and its people, I spend a lot of time there, have more US friends than UK friends.

I not only care about the US economy and its people and its health care, it directly affects me through my lady friends who are looking for jobs or need medical attention.

My uncle was in the army and spent a lot of time in ? Arizona, he dealt with procurement. The father of a friend of my son is in the helicopter business, all those helicopters parked near Fort Hood come from his company (or something like that).

US and UK are joined at the hip, at least militarily, although one side of the hip is a bit/lot heavier than the other.

The best and only worthwhile friends are those who gently point out shortcomings and prick some pomposity.

I think maybe too much information....

ps I didn't say Raphael was or was not anti american, I just said his posts here were not anti american.

Differences between the essential nature, and the outward behaviour. Hence my name essence

No, no confusion. And actually his posts are very anti-American, but that's neither here nor there. So now it's my turn to condescend: American is capitalized. I don't care what the UK spend on their military or their social medicine program. And beyond the fact that we have a military, I don't understand why you should care about our budgets and accounting. We obviously disagree so I think it's best to just leave it at that. So, so long.

I guess another workin' day is just about to end in the Britain. Have a pint, relax; life is good - here and in the UK.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by essence

So, do you propose scrapping the UN and NATO and the US going it alone? Do you see any dangers there?

Why was NATO originally formed? To defend the continental U.S.?

Why was the U.N. originally formed? Take a look at the Charter, then.

My point is (and was): When Obaminable talks about passing off the Lybian crap he started to NATO, who is he really kidding, other than himself? Somebody is gonna change a patch and "a lid" .... and be "NATO"!

The U.S. is funding most of the bucks anyway ... in $$ and materiel.

And now Germany, Italy, and no telling who else is gonna pull out of NATO!

Again, why was NATO originally formed?

To free the continental Africa of tyrannts?

It is just lovely that a bunch of "bench warmers" vote to "liberate" the "liberators" in Lybia, with U.S. $$ and technology with some help from France and the UK ...

[essence]

Olivia, I care for reasons I have explained in a pm.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by BigLouie

Oh really, try reading this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts...George_W._Bush

There was actually a pretty good vote to impeach Bush with some very serious charges.

Did you read your own article? The was no successful vote to impeach, ergo, there was no impeachable charges.

TexasJohn is right, let it go. The 2012 election will be about Obama and whoever the Republican candidate is. If the Dems keep "Blaming Bush" they'll surely lose.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

If the Dems keep "Blaming Bush" they'll surely lose, again.

There I fixed it for you.

In fairness to BL, there were some city councils that had introduced resolutions to impeach Bush and Cheney, and I think one out in California actually passed ... and I think afterwards they all went out to the Redwoods and hugged wood in celebration ..... gives new meaning to "grass roots"!

Back to the French contribution to Obama's Lybian War.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by essence

Is the US military used to artificially reduce unemployment figures? Is the US military a last option for many of the ambitious but disaffected youth?

[a lot of young British guys sign up because they don't see many other options in their vicinity....

My "Clash" collection is bigger than yours...

US military numbers aren't used in US unemployment figures.