Anybody Notice The Feds Wants Apple To Break Into An Americans phone

[Guest042616-1]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Besides you are the ones who are "living in fear"! Fear of government.

The whole idea behind the COTUS is based on the "fear of the government." It is set up with strict checks and balances, due to a fear of one branch becoming too powerful, and then a whole section that states what the government cannot do, with the explicit intent of protecting the citizens from it. And these protections put in the COTUS are there to protect our liberty from the government. I absolutely fear the government more than I fear terrorists, because they are in a much better position to screw me than any terrorist.

As Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

But once you two fear mongers explain how Apple unscrambling encrypted information on the terrorist's phone causes you to "lose freedom" then I'll consider your "the sky is falling in" logic.

What the government is saying is that I shouldn't be able to use a cell phone to communicate in a way they cannot listen in. It is effectively equivalent to putting a microphone in everyone's house just in case the government wants to listen in at some point to "catch some terrorists," because if I speak in my house, the government cannot get to what is in those conversations.

What information do you two fear mongers put on your phones that you don't want the government to know to which the government doesn't already have access either before it got on your phone or when you retrieve it?

Ah, the good old, failed, "if you have nothing to hide" argument. I'm honestly a bit shocked that a person posting on a hooker board can't see the value of hiding electronic communications from the government. If you have nothing to hide, why not just make all of your electronic communication available to the government?

But, anyway, short term at least, my concern is less with the government than with other "bad guys." I have a lot of sensitive stuff on my phone. I use it for banking, I use it for business confidential stuff for work, all of my private conversations with my wife and family are on there. A lot of harm could come to me if that information fell into the wrong hands. You may have a flip phone, or not fully embrace the technological advances afforded to you by your phone, but that does not mean we all have not taken advantage of the technology.

You all must be hell to drive around when you are heading down the GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED FREEWAY .... geeezzzz .... you actually have to stay in the lanes painted by the GOVERNMENT and obey the GOVERNMENT POSTED SPEED LIMIT SIGNS or get pulled over by A GOVERNMENT OFFICER DRIVING A GOVERNMENT VEHICLE!

What a nightmare for you guys. GOVERNMENT TRAFFIC REGULATION

Empty strawman.

And you're frightened of Apple unscrambling its own encryption?

Yes, absolutely. I don't want Apple to open up backdoors into their encryption. Worse would be the government compelling them to do so. That's the whole point of this discussion.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by eatfibo

That's the whole point of this discussion.

Of course!

Fear of Apple unscrambling the encryption!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

But once you two fear mongers explain how Apple unscrambling encrypted information on the terrorist's phone causes you to "lose freedom" then I'll consider your "the sky is falling in" logic.

What information do you two fear mongers put on your phones that you don't want the government to know to which the government doesn't already have access either before it got on your phone or when you retrieve it?

You all must be hell to drive around when you are heading down the GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED FREEWAY .... geeezzzz .... you actually have to stay in the lanes painted by the GOVERNMENT and obey the GOVERNMENT POSTED SPEED LIMIT SIGNS or get pulled over by A GOVERNMENT OFFICER DRIVING A GOVERNMENT VEHICLE!

What a nightmare for you guys. GOVERNMENT TRAFFIC REGULATION!

Oh, yea! Have you ever been around a "Stingray" tower?



And you're frightened of Apple unscrambling its own encryption?

Booooooooo!

Originally Posted by eatfibo

I absolutely fear the government more than I fear terrorists, because they are in a much better position to screw me than any terrorist.

Then perhaps you should go live with the terrorists, and support their cause.

[CuteOldGuy]

Jesus, LoserLover. I think eatfiber just royally handed you your ass. You come back with "Go live with the terrorists." Seriously? A grade school taunt? You will love the coming police state. You're supporting it. You don't see the danger in giving up liberty to gain security. When it reaches its logical conclusion, there will be neither.

You are already supporting their cause. They want to end freedom. Sounds like you do, too.

[Guest042616-1]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Jesus, LoserLover. I think eatfiber just royally handed you your ass. You come back with "Go live with the terrorists." Seriously? A grade school taunt?

"If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell."

It's a typical and sometimes effective strategy.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Jesus, LoserLover. I think eatfiber just royally handed you your ass. You come back with "Go live with the terrorists." Seriously? A grade school taunt? You will love the coming police state. You're supporting it. You don't see the danger in giving up liberty to gain security. When it reaches its logical conclusion, there will be neither.

You are already supporting their cause. They want to end freedom. Sounds like you do, too.

Speaking of "grade school taunt"! "handed .. ass"???? That's kindergarten shit!

The "right of privacy" legal history in this country is replete with "public safety" exceptions passed out by the judiciary. The legislative branch does it's own versions, but the real "carving" is done by the Courts.

The legal history is usually somewhere in the not so distance past as technology surges ahead of the last "opinion" and "exception." The mandated provisions by the legislature and the subsequent approval by the judiciary is for the most part the result of broad based resistance to the efforts by law enforcement to overcome the technological advances that have thwarted LE.

This dialogue about the "bad guys" getting access to the information is ludicrous ... "bad guys" are already getting the information! In the instant scenario ... that IS THE ISSUE.

The "bad guys" have it and the "good guys" want it! "Police State"?????

You want NO GOVERNMENT REGULATION?

Or do you just want it for your "agenda" items?

Have you EVER had a computer of yours examined forensically by LE?
How about your phone?

Back to "my ass" ... Do you know why I'm not "concerned" about it?

I don't put any shit on my computer or my phone that I don't want found! I erase and scrub when it is.

So you are such a dumbass you put shit on yours, and you want Apple to cover "YOUR ASS"!!!! (BTW: Was your phone made in China?) And you have the audacity to ridicule my mental processes?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Of course!

Fear of Apple unscrambling the encryption!

"Backdoors"? Was that in some "article" or "tweet"?

You sound more and more like "chicken little" ... the sky is falling in!

Apple is gonna have to unscramble their encryption on a dead terrorists phone with which he more than likely communicated with other "terrorists" or "potential terrorists" ... and suddenly YOUR LIBERTY is AT RISK?

Now COG is crying the "police state" mantra?

You fear the U.S. Government more than you do "the terrorists"? Give me a break!

Look UP! There's a "Stingray" tower near you!

[Guest042616-1]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

The legal history is usually somewhere in the not so distance past as technology surges ahead of the last "opinion" and "exception." The mandated provisions by the legislature and the subsequent approval by the judiciary is for the most part the result of broad based resistance to the efforts by law enforcement to overcome the technological advances that have thwarted LE.

You avoided my point before, but I will try again here with a question. Should the government be able to record every phone conversation and then, when the need arise based on accusations of terrorism, go back and listen to those recordings?

The "technology" of being able to call is something thwarts LE too because they cannot retroactively listen in on those conversations. The solution to the phone call problem is that the state can get a warrant and then, using their own technology, wiretap the phone and catch conversations after that point. They don't simply force phone companies to record every conversation, and then access that DB to every call that the person made when they feel the need. Why should my electronic communications be any different? Why should it be legal for them to go back and view my history? You are effectively arguing that they should be able to record every phone call, just in case.

There may be some legal precedent (set by people who don't fully understand the technology) that makes this legal, I don't really know. But I am talking about the philosophy and spirit of the constitution of the matter, more than whether or not it is currently legal for them to do so.

This dialogue about the "bad guys" getting access to the information is ludicrous ... "bad guys" are already getting the information! In the instant scenario ... that IS THE ISSUE.

You're misrepresenting the argument. The argument is that, by creating a backdoor, the "bad guys" are going to take advantage of the "innocent guys," not that the "bad guys" are going to take advantage of the technology.

You want NO GOVERNMENT REGULATION?

Again, this is a strawman. No one is talking about yes or no to government regulation. We are talking about a very specific situation.

Have you EVER had a computer of yours examined forensically by LE?
How about your phone?

And they are free to do so. The question is whether or not they can (or should) compel a company to come up with a technology so they can do this. They aren't just using their own technology here, they are forcing a company to undermine their own technology because they can't get at some information they want. But, more importantly, the question we should be asking is not "is this legal" but "does doing this make us safer." The answer to that, IMO and most experts in cybersecurity, is a resounding no. Not only is it "no," but that it makes us even less safe by opening the door for our government, other governments and criminals to get at our information.

I don't put any shit on my computer or my phone that I don't want found! I erase and scrub when it is.

So you are such a dumbass you put shit on yours, and you want Apple to cover "YOUR ASS"!!!!

You contradict yourself here. You are using technology to take (likely ineffective) precautions to protect the private information on your phone. I'm using the more robust method of using the technology of encryption to protect the private information on my phone. Why should deleting stuff be legal, when it thwarts LE too, but encrypting should not, because it thwarts LE? If I can't encrypt because it might thwart LE, you should not be able to delete, because it thwarts LE.

[Guest042616-1]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Apple is gonna have to unscramble their encryption on a dead terrorists phone with which he more than likely communicated with other "terrorists" or "potential terrorists" ... and suddenly YOUR LIBERTY is AT RISK?

Yes! Absolutely! Not only my liberty, but my safety as well. Once they open that door, they cannot close it. It will become a vulnerability that other people and governments will seek out and likely find. And it also gives unscrupulous people in our government the ability to take advantage of it as well.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by eatfibo

Yes! Absolutely! Not only my liberty, but my safety as well. Once they open that door, they cannot close it.

Keys to buildings get changed regularly. Locks get re-keyed. Combinations and codes get changed as well. Phone numbers are changed. The list is endless.

Your "sky is going to fall" crying falls on deaf ears.

You talk about "strawmen"?

Your entire "fear" is based on your "belief" that Apple techs can't NOW unscramble their own encryption. Where is your proof they can't? You have none!

Fly much? Speaking of intrusive security? I'm concerned the TSA is ineffective! You're concerned they exist at all. "More government "over-reaching"" say you? I'm glad they do their jobs. I just want them to do their jobs!

[CuteOldGuy]

I didn't ridicule your mental faculties, LexusLoser, because apparently you don't have any. Having mental faculties presumes you are capable of independent thought, but you are only capable of repeating what the government and the Establishment Media tell you. You are supporting the terrorists. They want our freedom, and you will happily give it to them. You don't like freedom because it involves risk and personal responsibility. There are too many rows of white gravestones for men and women who gave their lives so we could be free. I will not piss on their graves by gladly handing over my freedom just to gain a little security. When we are completely secure, we will no longer be free. We've given up too much already. And while I'm sure Apple will eventually be forced against their will to do the government's dirty work, I applaud Tim Cook, Mark Zuckerberg, and others for taking on the fight. And I will avoid, as much as possible, anything Microsoft has its hands in. I know they are impossible to avoid completely, but I have no respect at all for Bill Gates, as I have no respect for you. There are words to describe people like you, and one of them is not "patriot".

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

.....you are only capable of repeating what the government and the Establishment Media tell you. You are supporting the terrorists. They want our freedom, and you will happily give it to them.

I see you are in favor of disbanding the airport security in place in this country.

Do you also want to disband the intelligence agencies and departments as well?

Otherwise you would be "giving in" to the terrorists, and pissing on the graves of those how gave their lives for you. I understand YOUR MENTALITY ...

.. I've been listening to it for about EIGHT YEARS .... here is YOUR LEADER!



You want to close GITMO because it is "recruiting" more terrorists! Got it!

You proclaim "The Government of the United States is the enemy" .... and you wrap yourself in the U.S. flag?

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I didn't ridicule your mental faculties, LexusLoser, because apparently you don't have any. Having mental faculties presumes you are capable of independent thought, but you are only capable of repeating what the government and the Establishment Media tell you. You are supporting the terrorists. They want our freedom, and you will happily give it to them. You don't like freedom because it involves risk and personal responsibility. There are too many rows of white gravestones for men and women who gave their lives so we could be free. I will not piss on their graves by gladly handing over my freedom just to gain a little security. When we are completely secure, we will no longer be free. We've given up too much already. And while I'm sure Apple will eventually be forced against their will to do the government's dirty work, I applaud Tim Cook, Mark Zuckerberg, and others for taking on the fight. And I will avoid, as much as possible, anything Microsoft has its hands in. I know they are impossible to avoid completely, but I have no respect at all for Bill Gates, as I have no respect for you. There are words to describe people like you, and one of them is not "patriot".

You are in the minority dull knife, however you are use to that.
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/a...183958422.html

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by i'va biggen

You are in the minority dull knife, however you are use to that.

It began with his "social promotions" in Kindergarten. They needed the chair! He started hating "government"!

[CuteOldGuy]

Keep making up stuff about me, LexusLoser. Someone has to fill the gap while while WPF is gone.