Unemployment Falls

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

And since when do tax cuts increase inflation when accompanied by aggressive monetary tightening? That's about the silliest thing I ever read.
All you posted was a few non sequiturs having nothing to do with your erroneous assertion that we "inflated" our way out of debt in the 1980s.

That is because you did not read it correctly: Who cares how he spells? I care about the historical facts.


. Reagan’s action was to boost deficit spending and give tax breaks – both of which increase the money supply andtherefore reduce the value of money – which is felt as inflation. Volker and Reagan were taking opposing actions

Volker’s action was to raise interest rates to cut the money supply in order to raise the value of money – which would stop inflation.
----------------------------------------------
Do you understand that we had a huge inflationary period? That was when we inflated our way out of some of this personal debt households had taken on. They paid back their home loans with hugely inflated dollars.

[Texas Contrarian]

I read it perfectly well. The guy has no idea what he's talking about. Aside from not even knowing how to spell Volcker's name, he engaged in obvious conflation regarding the term "money supply." He doesn't even seem to know what its universally accepted definition is. And he has no understanding of the relationship between tax policy and inflation.

Also please note that the subject of this discussion is federal debt and deficits, not household debt. That's an altogether different issue and has nothing whatsoever to do with Obama's destructive economic agenda. You simply posted a couple of non sequiturs, as has so frequently been your wont. Segueing into something unrelated or only peripherally related is a favorite tactic of yours when it's pointed out to you that you posted something that's totally nonsensical.

As anyone can obviously see, a period of dramatic disinflation began in the early 1980s, so it's clear that Reagan did not "inflate" anything.

That was Jimmy Carter and the disastrous Fed chairman he appointed in 1978, before being prevailed upon to finally make a responsible decision and put Volcker in the chair in 1979.

[Fast Gunn]

Well, since you did ask respectfully, CM, let me try and break the nature of reality down for you.

In my youth, I would look out at the world and thought that what I saw was exactly what everyone else saw. I mean it was right there plain as day.

As time went by, it became clear to me that two intelligent people can look at exactly the same scene, the same person, the same book, the same car or what ever you choose and come away with totally different views of the very same thing! The car is too big. No, the car is too small. The book is wonderful. No, the book is boring. This girl is beautiful. No, she is ugly!

Many people young and old still do not realize the nature of reality and presume that the reality they see is exactly the same as what everyone else sees, but it is not.

The ignorance of that fact is what has lead to many arguments, divorces, wars and acrimony in this world.

Now for the second part of your question.

President Obama is the best President this country has been fortunate to have in generations because he has brought new hope to a weary nation that we are bigger than our problems. Even when his opponents are hell-bent on breaking him, he remains optimistic and stays on the high road.

During the depths of the Great Depression there was no one with the vision and the understanding to raise the hopes of people that their lives would soon improve and the misery extended for a decade. It did not have to be so bad if we had leaders who know what to do, but they did exactly the opposite of what was needed. They tightened credit. They placed tariffs on imports. They preached about a balanced budget.

Now, by way of contrast, look at at all that President Obama has done in just 3 years when he was faced with the eminent disaster of a total melt-down of the economic system.

He made many tough decisions with far-reaching consequences and like a heroic captain whose ship was tittering on the shoals of disaster guided this nation away from the certain abyss that lay before us while people left and right criticized him and obstructed his intentions.

He bailed out the car industry and they are back on the road. He bailed out the banks. He put and end to the idiotic wars that we should have never started to begin with.

He found the worst terrorist in the world. the very same one who had eluded many Presidents before him.

He supported the freedom fighters in Libya and helped to rid the world of Muammar Gaddafi when many urged him not to get involved.

Now that major world eruptions have been brought under control he is focusing on restoring confidence to the business community and companies are beginning to hiring workers again.

You are seeing the unemployment rate drop to the lowest it has been in 3 years.

. . . How much more evidence do you need to see that what President Obama is doing is restoring this ailing country back to health?

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Fast Gunn, are you trying to tell us that reality is somehow not actually reality because there's an "alternate reality" residing somewhere in your mind? For your sake, I hope you never have to rely on an attorney to convince a jury that a set of facts that's plain for everyone to see is not the "real" reality, since there's an "alternate reality" that they just don't have an active enough imagination to see!

And since when is suggesting that someone remove the partisan blinders and take a cold, hard look at facts "emotional posting?" You claimed that you no longer saw "clear objectivity" in my posts. I suggest that you go back and read what I wrote, particularly in post #59. Seems to me there's plenty of objectivity there. If you read anything there with which you disagree, let's hear it. That would beat the hell out of simply continuing to make fatuous statements!

I noticed that you guys took a pass on answering these very simple questions from just a few posts ago:




Fast Gunn, why don't you take a stab at answering those very simple, straightforward questions? If you won't even do that, what point is there in further discussing this issue? If it seems to you that I don't suffer fools gladly, perhaps it's simply the case that I have little patience with people who are unable or unwilling to craft cogent arguments supporting their beliefs. You stated early in the thread that Obama is the best president we've had "in generations." Why don't you try to tell us why you believe that, including a statement of exactly what he's done in the way of policy achievements that will increase the prosperity of our nation?

And WTF, how about you? Why don't you try answering those questions? You're a big Obama supporter, aren't you? And you stepped back into this thread less than an hour ago with yet another clueless post (like post #60, where you showed that you have no understanding of the inflation of the 1980s).

Obama was hired by the voters to fix problems, not exacerbate existing ones while creating new ones of his own.

[CuteOldGuy]

Gawd, that would be SO funny

Except you actually believe it, despite all the facts that have been presented.

[cptjohnstone]

fast gunn lives in la la land

[Texas Contrarian]

Fast Gunn,

When considering what you referred to as the "nature of reality", you must separate items that are opinions from those that are facts.

You used a hypothetical example of whether or not a woman is attractive. I might pick out a famous actress and opine that she is extremely sexy. You may agree. 90% of our friends may agree, but that obviously does not make our mutually-held opinion a fact. But if you said that she is a 30-year-old female (assuming that that's true), then obviously that's a fact.

You said that Obama "guided the nation away from the certain abyss that lay before us." Apparently you think that absent actions he took, we would have gone into a redux of the Great Depression. I would challenge you to point out any actions he undertook that in any way improved our economy or saved it from any sort of calamity or depression. You will recall that TARP was put into place prior to Obama's inauguration. It was poorly implemented (the methods by which liquidity was pumped into the banking system were changed in midstream), but nevertheless it was present by the end of 2008.

We've already discussed the ineffectiveness and wastefulness of the $800 billion stimulus package passed in February 2009.

The health care reform act was botched and imposes costs, mandates, and uncertainty on those making hiring decisions. Even staunch Obama supporter Warren Buffett says it was all about coverage expansion, when any remotely reasonable "reform" plan should have addressed cost containment. Enron-style accounting practices were necessary to keep the CBO's 10-year cost projections under about $2 trillion.

You said he made "tough decisions" with far-reaching consequences. I might only add that there are far-reaching consequences, for sure, and that they're very bad.

The previous statement is my opinion. An opinion with which a very large percentage of Americans would agree, I think, but nevertheless an opinion.

But the following statements are not opinions:

Over the last four years, we have increased the annual rate of spending at the federal level from about $2.7 trillion to about $3.6 trillion. Some of that increase occurred during the last year of Bush's presidency and resulted from efforts to stave off recession such as that useless stimulus package of early 2008, but Obama has overseen a spending increase of almost 25% in just three years -- and that has been stacked on top of the virtually unprecedented spending increases under George W. Bush, during whose terms spending increased by about 60%. (Can't somebody stand up and say, "Enough, already!")

The NBER called midyear 2009 as the "end" of the recession (late 2007 was the beginning), and since then we have seen by far the weakest economic recovery in modern U.S. history. Jobs growth has also been spotty and weak throughout the whole period. We've had a few prints in the 250K range (last month and Feb.-Apr. 2011) but the rest of the entire period contained disappointment after disappointment. Year-over-year GDP growth has also been much weaker than in every other period following recessions.

The current tax structure is only collecting about 60% of federal spending, since the economy is not healthy and spending has exploded so badly out of control.

The above statements are not my opinions; they are simply facts. You can't spin them away with any "alternate definition" of reality.

I asked you a couple of simple questions earlier, Fast Gunn, but you ignored them and blithely moved on. So I'm going to press you to answer them. Here they are again:

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

How do you think we should pay for all this spending? What sorts of taxes should be raised, when, and on whom? Do you support a VAT? Or do you think we should simply try to pay for all this largesse with borrowed and printed money forever, and simply hope against hope that nothing goes terribly wrong?


Do you think Obama was correct in completely ignoring the findings of the Simpson-Bowles commission? Don't you think he should have at least used it as a starting point to begin discussions of how we might be able to establish a glidepath to fiscal sanity?

If you are going to try to make the case that Obama is doing a reasonably responsible job as president, let alone a good job, then you are going to have to answer those questions -- particulary the one about taxation. On whom to you believe we should raise taxes, and when?

No adherents of any school of economic thought -- classical, Keynesian, monetarist, Austrian, or anything else -- hold the view that it's possible to run deficits anywhere near the level of ours year after year after year without taking extreme risks of completely destroying the economy.

So how about it, Fast Gunn? Are you up to the challenge? Please tell us what you think should be done to wind down from an obviously unsustainable course, and how you would propose escaping from the deep fiscal hole we've been digging for years. And while you're at it, please tell us what effect you think tax increases substantial enough to meaningfully reduce the deficit would have on the economy.

If you are going to try to make the case that Obama is even a remotely acceptable president, let alone a good one, you need to answer those questions. Your failure to do so should be considered tantamount to a tacit admission that he is simply an abject failure.

[Iaintliein]

Eat the rich. . . then I guess next year we'll eat the middle class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=JY8LKII_MNA

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by cptjohnstone

fast gunn lives in la la land

Great place to be!! Are you jealous?

[Iaintliein]

It's halftime in America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j_8q...layer_embedded

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Also please note that the subject of this discussion is federal debt and deficits, not household debt.
.

Well it has a huge correlation with the slow economic recovery. I am not the one running around comparing this recovery with others.

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

As anyone can obviously see, a period of dramatic disinflation began in the early 1980s, so it's clear that Reagan did not "inflate" anything.

.

And the Fed Chairman was responsible for it, not Reagan. The Fed Chairman Carter put in place.

Reagan cut taxes and increased spending and doubled the debt. What would you normally get when that happens?

I have said that Reagan was lucky as far as the economic cycle goes. Just like Clinton. Maybe like Obama will be... Who knows? This is not an exact science. Who knows what would have happened had Carter been elected. He wasn't, no big deal but it is all just speculation.

You folks are to quick to dispute what FastGunn said. We all can look at the exact same thing and depending on our worldviews, read different things into it.

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

It's halftime in America.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-j_8q...layer_embedded

Have you or anyone eles ever seen a great second half by and dynasty? Think about that...

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by Iaintliein

It's halftime in America.

Time to change QBs. Nobody's intimidated by the roar of an electric motor.

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Time to change QBs.

As if the qb you slobbered over for 8 long and painful years (George W. Bush) did not deserve to be changed!

[CuteOldGuy]

Yeah, since Bush was a terrible President, the Democrats are allowed to have a terrible President. Excellent logic.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Yeah, since Bush was a terrible President, the Democrats are allowed to have a terrible President. Excellent logic.

Yup. That seems to be the rule around here!

Why don't you guys try this one out? Next time you get stopped for speeding, just tell the cop, "Hey! That's not fair! The guy in front of me was speeding, too!"

See how well that one works for you.

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

i have to laugh because there is a brain disconnect with WTF that doesnt allow him to ever respond on point

Exactly right. Just look at WTF's last few posts. If you point out to him that he made a totally erroneous statement, and that he linked to a blog post written by a guy who has no clue what he's talking about, he starts bobbing, weaving, and deflecting in a forlorn attempt to prove that he was right about something. It hardly ever goes well for him, and occasionally gets quite funny!

Originally Posted by WTF

You folks are to quick to dispute what FastGunn said. We all can look at the exact same thing and depending on our worldviews, read different things into it.

Really?

Yes, as I pointed out, there are opinions and there are facts. You are entitled to opinions of your own, but not to your own facts. Yet you quoted Fast Gunn's "alternate reality" statement, agreed with it, and put in one of those little hand-clapping smileys.

Are you living in a fantasy world, too, WTF?

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

Yup. That seems to be the rule around here!

Why don't you guys try this one out? Next time you get stopped for speeding, just tell the cop, "Hey! That's not fair! The guy in front of me was speeding, too!"

See how well that one works for you.



Exactly right. Just look at WTF's last few posts. If you point out to him that he made a totally erroneous statement, and that he linked to a blog post written by a guy who has no clue what he's talking about, he starts bobbing, weaving, and deflecting in a forlorn attempt to prove that he was right about something. It hardly ever goes well for him, and occasionally gets quite funny!



Really?

Yes, as I pointed out, there are opinions and there are facts. You are entitled to opinions of your own, but not to your own facts. Yet you quoted Fast Gunn's "alternate reality" statement, agreed with it, and put in one of those little hand-clapping smileys.

Are you living in a fantasy world, too, WTF?

the liberal mind is nothing if not illogical