Abortion

[txdot-guy]

It makes me curious to see if rates of vasectomies went up after the repeal of roe v wade?

A quick google search shows

Here's what we found: In the immediate aftermath of the Roe v. Wade overturn, vasectomies increased by 30%. Nationwide, vasectomy procedures increased by 30% from July through September 2022 compared with the same time period in 2021.

https://www.komodohealth.com/perspec...od%20in%202021.

[Cherie]

Reversal is 80-90% and I'm willing to bet there are a lot of men who simply don't want children and for that matter don't care to get married, that being said why should the full burden of one act be totally on the woman (if nobody wants to use a condom or take birth control or even a morning after pill) when men can actually do something about it themselves, or do you really think abortion should be done right up until birth without any forethought about the child (yes after 4 months this fetus feels when it is punctured and pulled out of the womb) and don't get me going on how it should be done right up until birth. Let me tell you at 6 months what it feels like to actually kill your own child.

I know I had it done when I was young and dumb and didn't think it would bother me for the rest of my life but it most certainly does.



Let me tell you how its done and what the mother has to go through. They take a long needle filled with saline solution they stick it into the belly button of the mother into the brain of the child, kills it, then the mother still goes through labor, for me it was 15 hrs of labor of a dead baby inside of me. When the labor started I just went to the bathroom (as there was no one there to help, it was 2 AM(at a Jewish cntr in NYC) finally I pushed it out by myself, looked down between my legs and there was a perfect baby boy with a head full of black hair and what struck me the most was the perfect fingernails and toenails and that child that I killed is something no woman should have to go through. I don't even remember if I or someone else cut the cord that is how distraught I was.

So do I think it might be less challenging on the woman and the division of our society if the man (especially one who wants to be with a lot of woman (certainly not knocking it, it is the nature of the beast) certainly has the potential of getting each one pregnant and having to go through the trauma of an unwanted pregnancy.



Don't forget the politicians love separation and division as that gives them control over the masses.


Debates are a wonderful thing and people just don't know how or don't want to do it, it is soo much easier to name call while the buttress of America becomes more fractured and finally collapses.
Have a great day Created in Space

[Ogre2002]

If this was true why is it that you can get charged with a double homicide if you murder a pregnant woman?

[Cherie]

Absolutely, I actually heard Bill Maher the other day say that "it is murder" and he cannot understand the 15 wks or leaving it to the states, however, he is just OK with that as there are 15 billion people in the world but it is still murder and that is Bill Maher saying it. WOW

[winn dixie]

[txdot-guy]

Let us not kid ourselves, abortion is killing a preterm life. But before abortion was normalized infanticide was used for quite a long time instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide

Abortion is a much more humane option if performed early enough. I just don't think it's up to me to decide what's good for the woman who realistically should be the final determinate of her own health and body.

A good compromise in my opinion is a 20 to 24 week ban except for cases of "health of the mother, rape and incest". I also believe that if abortion before the limit was more available abortion after 20 weeks would be practically non-existent.

[Tiny]

Now that performing an abortion in Texas is punishable by life in prison, and now that it's illegal to help women leave Texas to get abortions, what does the future hold? Maybe women will go back to coat hanger abortions in back alleys? Has Texas become third world? Perhaps this is what the future holds:

Every year, worldwide, about 42 million women with unintended pregnancies choose abortion, and nearly half of these procedures, 20 million, are unsafe. Some 68,000 women die of unsafe abortion annually, making it one of the leading causes of maternal mortality (13%). Of the women who survive unsafe abortion, 5 million will suffer long-term health complications.

....According to the World Health Organization (WHO), every 8 minutes a woman in a developing nation will die of complications arising from an unsafe abortion. An unsafe abortion is defined as “a procedure for terminating an unintended pregnancy carried out either by persons lacking the necessary skills or in an environment that does not conform to minimal medical standards, or both.”

....Worldwide, some 5 million women are hospitalized each year for treatment of abortion-related complications such as hemorrhage and sepsis, and abortion-related deaths leave 220,000 children motherless. The main causes of death from unsafe abortion are hemorrhage, infection, sepsis, genital trauma, and necrotic bowel. Data on nonfatal long-term health complications are poor, but those documented include poor wound healing, infertility, consequences of internal organ injury (urinary and stool incontinence from vesicovaginal or rectovaginal fistulas), and bowel resections. Other unmeasurable consequences of unsafe abortion include loss of productivity and psychologic damage.

The burden of unsafe abortion lies not only with the women and families, but also with the public health system. Every woman admitted for emergency postabortion care may require blood products, antibiotics, oxytocics, anesthesia, operating rooms, and surgical specialists. The financial and logistic impact of emergency care can overwhelm a health system and can prevent attention to be administered to other patients.

....Abortion-related deaths are more frequent in countries with more restrictive abortion laws (34 deaths per 100,000 childbirths) than in countries with less restrictive laws (1 or fewer per 100,000 childbirths).

Less restrictive abortion laws do not appear to entail more abortions overall. The world’s lowest abortion rates are in Europe, where abortion is legal and widely available but contraceptive use is high; in Belgium, Germany, and the Netherlands, the rate is below 10 per 1000 women aged 15 to 44 years. In contrast, in Africa, Latin America, and the Caribbean, where abortion laws are the most restrictive and contraceptive use is lower, the rates range from the mid-20s to 39 per 1000 women.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/

Based on the last paragraph above, those who believe strict abortion restrictions will result in fewer abortions may be mistaken. They should focus their efforts on education and contraception instead of banning all abortions.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

It makes me curious to see if rates of vasectomies went up after the repeal of roe v wade?

A quick google search shows

Here's what we found: In the immediate aftermath of the Roe v. Wade overturn, vasectomies increased by 30%. Nationwide, vasectomy procedures increased by 30% from July through September 2022 compared with the same time period in 2021.

https://www.komodohealth.com/perspec...od%20in%202021.

Interesting. The risk of unexpected fatherhood shot upwards and that's the response. I see the number of tubal ligations meanwhile has remained flat.

Saw your reply about gerrymandering. I may follow up in another thread.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Reversal is 80-90%

I thought CreatedInSpace was correct, but apparently not. From the Cleveland Clinic in 2022,

What is the success rate of reversing a vasectomy?

Depending on how many years have passed since your vasectomy, your success rates are 60% to 95% for return of sperm in your ejaculate. Pregnancy is possible more than 50% of the time after a reversal. However, success rates start to decline 15 years after a vasectomy.

Other factors contribute to pregnancy chances even if your vasectomy reversal is successful. The age of your wife or partner is important as well as the health of your sperm.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/healt...ctomy-reversal

Originally Posted by Cherie

Let me tell you how its done and what the mother has to go through. They take a long needle filled with saline solution they stick it into the belly button of the mother into the brain of the child, kills it, then the mother still goes through labor, for me it was 15 hrs of labor of a dead baby inside of me. When the labor started I just went to the bathroom (as there was no one there to help, it was 2 AM(at a Jewish cntr in NYC) finally I pushed it out by myself, looked down between my legs and there was a perfect baby boy with a head full of black hair and what struck me the most was the perfect fingernails and toenails and that child that I killed is something no woman should have to go through. I don't even remember if I or someone else cut the cord that is how distraught I was.

That's the strongest pro-life argument in this thread, by far.

If you feel comfortable replying, when did the abortion occur, how many weeks after conception?

From what I'm reading, the most common method of accomplishing an abortion is by taking drugs, orally, and the second most common, up to 14 weeks, is suction.

I know two women who strongly regret having had abortions. I'm sure many who went through what you did feel the same way. So that's something to consider, Still, up to a point, maybe 12 or 15 weeks, I believe the woman and her doctor should decide instead of the government.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by Tiny

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2709326/

Based on the last paragraph above, those who believe strict abortion restrictions will result in fewer abortions may be mistaken. They should focus their efforts on education and contraception instead of banning all abortions.

For some couples, specifically Catholics, Natural Family Planning is the only acceptable contraceptive option. NFP is most associated with the rhythm method. Only updated to include scientific methods to determine fertility rather than simply following ones menstrual history to determine fertility.

The Catholic Church supports the methods of Natural Family Planning (NFP) because they respect God's design for married love. In fact, NFP represents the only authentic approach to family planning available to husbands and wives because these methods can be used to both attempt or avoid pregnancy.

https://www.usccb.org/topics/natural...id%20pregnancy.

[txdot-guy]

Statistics on abortion rates per weeks of pregnancy.

The updated analysis considers 2021 CDC data, before the Dobbs decision, in a post-Dobbs policy landscape. The analysis shows that abortions at or after 21 weeks are uncommon and represent 1% of all abortions in the U.S. Ninety-six percent occurred at or before 15 weeks gestation, while 3% occurred from 16 to 20 weeks gestation.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-po...-in-pregnancy/

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

Statistics on abortion rates per weeks of pregnancy.

The updated analysis considers 2021 CDC data, before the Dobbs decision, in a post-Dobbs policy landscape. The analysis shows that abortions at or after 21 weeks are uncommon and represent 1% of all abortions in the U.S. Ninety-six percent occurred at or before 15 weeks gestation, while 3% occurred from 16 to 20 weeks gestation.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-po...-in-pregnancy/

Well then, Trump's 15 weeks makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe 12 weeks. To our friends who have substantially more conservative or liberal views, I'd say perfect is the enemy of good.

[CreatedInSpace]

Originally Posted by Tiny

I thought CreatedInSpace was correct, but apparently not.

He is. The article doesn’t consider many things, only accounting for a simple stitch job (actually not so simple, 3-4 hours under the microscope). There are many cases where sperm is not present at the vas, why the testical side is reopened first, and a much more complicated process of complete vascular rebuild, what can only be described in layman’s terms as a roto-rooter job, or throwing in the towel altogether.

Even if the process goes swimmingly, many times the patient needs constant steroid treatment which causes weight gain, facial changes from fat redistribution, moodiness and insomnia. None of the side effects are conducive of male attractiveness. Even with rare full sperm recovery, and a woman willing to overlook their new pudgy, miserable partner, the effectiveness can vary widely, typically in the range of 25-75%.

The process also requires an incredibly skilled surgeon, which many urologists are not. It’s difficulty is easily comparable to heart bypass or even strabismus (something only god level optometrists get right in one go). Describing it as tying your shoes is a huge slight to doctors who can successfully pull it off.

Obviously the article you site is totally legitimate, but it fails to consider anything but a perfect process. IMO, when all things are considered, 50% success is an overstatement.

[CreatedInSpace]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Well then, Trump's 15 weeks makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe 12 weeks. To our friends who have substantially more conservative or liberal views, I'd say perfect is the enemy of good.

This, 100%. Hence my previous statements that radicals on both sides do nothing but throw poison pills into what should be an easily resolvable issue.

[eccieuser9500]

One minute. Forty seconds.

The Swift family.

Hope I don't get pointed!