Hobby perspective after some years?

[Guest062114-5]

This is by far the best thread I've read in a long time. Thank you so much for sharing. All of you.

[DarthDVader]

I really expect we can meet soon ... this is an amazing subject ...
Jessica, youre most welcome to come and I would add THN, Chevalier and TinMan ... and of course others if interested ... a round table lunch

Originally Posted by Rehke

You, my dear, would be a complete and utter distraction!

DV, and Jessica. Seriously, I might take you up on that offer in a little time. I've got a lot of personal irons in the fire and I can tell I'm going to need some time to put the finishing touches on my perspective.

I think I finally understand why some guys pretty much retire from the hobby, yet still frequent these boards.

And one more thought for THN...civilian and sugar dating both have proven pretty much that the same issues in the hobby can and do exist outside it as well. I'm not exactly sure where I'm going to end up, but so far, things are definitely proving interesting. We'll see what happens.

[Jessica Jade]

Originally Posted by DarthDVader

I really expect we can meet soon ... this is an amazing subject ...
Jessica, youre most welcome to come and I would add THN, Chevalier and TinMan ... and of course others if interested ... a round table lunch

Oh I definitely second all those names, especially THN.

[TinMan]

Originally Posted by DarthDVader

I really expect we can meet soon ... this is an amazing subject ...
Jessica, youre most welcome to come and I would add THN, Chevalier and TinMan ... and of course others if interested ... a round table lunch

I dunno...given the subject matter, drinking may need to be involved. I don't do introspection well when I'm sober, and I swore off lunchtime drinking months ago.

[DarthDVader]

LMAO, Then we should do dinner or take the day off... Ill bring my special Tequila or some Texas Titos ...

Originally Posted by TinMan

I dunno...given the subject matter, drinking may need to be involved. I don't do introspection well when I'm sober, and I swore off lunchtime drinking months ago.

[TinMan]

Ahhh...Tito's...now there is something I know several folks on this thread can agree upon!

[Guest092216]

Originally Posted by Rehke

Overall I'm a very optimistic person. I've always tried to turn the worst things that have happened to my advantage somehow.

Chevalier's post certainly rings true.

I think I have another spin on it as well. Several years ago, I realized I had certain tendencies in regards to the women I choose in my life. Eventually, after learning some personal history about the provider that's currently in jail, I pieced together some things. I suspect that there is a family history of Borderline Personality Disorder. And I figured out that I have a radar and an almost infallible attraction to women with those characteristics.

So I spent quite a bit of time involved in that situation studying it in every way I could and taking some very serious looks at myself and choices I made in the romantic area of my life. In many ways, I'm surprised that I'm not a complete misogynist.

My hobby experience has certainly brought out to my consciousness quite a bit about me. And a lot of that was a conscious choice because I knew I had to go through something in order to learn something about myself, and to get myself in a position to make better choices in the future.

Paradoxically, as much as the hobby is a thing of lies. We hide our lives to protect ourselves, we hide our hobby activities to protect our lives, and the basic IOP is a lie itself. It's a whole lot of fake. As much as the hobby is that, It's here that I've learned to be come the most understanding of truth. Not just the importance of truth, but how truth can be something else for another person. How hard it can be to get said what you need to get said without unduly bruising another. And just how our own minds work so that in the end, "truth" is mostly what each individual perceives it to be.

Life is about our choices and decisions. When I was younger, my mantra was "Do the right thing." Lately it's become more, "When everyone acts decently, we all get ahead." I think both those are good guidelines to live by. We're all human, and we do human things. We don't always do the right thing, and we kick ourselves down for it. We don't forgive ourselves our mistakes in life. We do really well in some areas and fail to apply that wisdom to other areas of our life. All any of us can do is to keep trying to do better.

This board, and others, is strewn with drama, and failing relationships. It's a community of extremely lonely individuals. I believe, in the end, we are all looking for just a few drops of real human love. For some piece of something we are missing in our lives and just plain do not know how to find it. People on both sides have mentioned how addicting the hobby is. And it's not all about the money. From involved conversations I've had with providers, the sex itself, and I think the intimacy is also powerfully addictive. It's also a trap. I personally do not know any provider who got into this on a fully informed, conscious decision. Pimps of all types find vulnerable people and bring them into this life with deceit and false promises. And the phrase, "it'll be worth it, trust me" is almost always a sure sign you're about to get had if you believe it.

As I see it, the really sad thing is that if there were more honesty from the get go, we'd all end up a shitload happier. Human social structure evolved to allow us to work together cooperatively for the good of the whole and the betterment of individuals.

Mini-novel alert. Lol

So many things so many things! Trying to focus on just one. You touched on the concept of the "greater good" over the "greater one": the foundation of a house vs every crack it may or may not produce. Comprehending that kind of perspective requires significant personal inventory and honest objectivity.

You are obviously interested in living in an objective reality or "truth" by recognizing what others may have already seen about you (attraction to self-destructive relationships/BPD types). We all create our own reality, or "truth". Most people see the world subjectively/dishonestly (the greater one over the greater good) but some, like you, are aware of their actual place in the world at large and choose to see themselves objectively/honestly (the greater good over the greater one). The hobby (and the world) are poisoned with people who dismiss the greater good for the greater one. But true selfishness is selfless when you eventually come to the understanding that attaining the greater good is beneficial to every " greater one". Stepping outside yourself (objectivity) and examining your own self-foolery (subjectivity) is living an honest "truth" or reality.

Objective introspection is so difficult and painful for most people (while in comparison to real pain, its rather soothing). Even more unfortunate is that deep and honest introspection requires life shattering pain and the time to recover. Most people who are subjective and live a dishonest "truth" have never experienced real pain or real loss because they didn't hold value in what they had in the first place. They can lose everything and it won't matter because nothing else matters to them but them. They will always choose to be subjectively selfish bc somewhere along the way they lost the ability to truly care about anything.

Seeing yourself as the world sees you is the only way to honestly investigate yourself and make changes that will benefit you because, in turn, it benefits everyone around you. So many people don't comprehend that but in the hobby you can distance yourself from the subjective thinkers who could care less what they do to others as long as it benefits them. In the hobby u can protect yourself and ur loved ones from these people bc distance is expected. In the real world it is the opposite. People expect to be involved in your personal life and you never know what they will do to you until they have done it.

Yes, as dishonest as people are in the hobby it is also much easier to see the wolves and protect yourself accordingly. A few people have asked me why I do this and the best answer I have is that this is the most honest life I have known. No one enticed me into providing. I happened into it alone, by chance, after my entire reason for living appeared to be lost. Providing saved me from total hopelessness. Being able to give pleasure to others in this most basic way rescued me from the "truth" (reality) that I lived in at the time: that the subjective selfishness of the greater one would always win over the objective honesty of the greater good. Thankfully, because of the hobby, I now consider myself as winning by honest and objective measure one person at a time.

I keep to myself. I live my own life completely and no one is allowed access to areas of my life that I deem inaccessible. In the real world that would be considered strange, but I consider it wise.

There are so many paradoxical realities in the hobby. I've often thought of these with no reasonable outlet to share them. I'm really thankful to know others think along the same lines. I hope I haven't gone on too much but I pretty sure I have. Lol.

[Guest092216]

I'll bring the Titos!!!

And I think we can all also agree that Jessica is Smoking HoTT!!!

[pfmtony]

I'm always available for lunch as many already know.

[Jessica Jade]

Originally Posted by pfmtony

I'm always available for lunch as many already know.

You definitely should be there too.

[Chevalier]

Originally Posted by thathottnurse

In the hobby u can protect yourself and ur loved ones from these people bc distance is expected.

I'm cautious, and my default rule is to maintain "distance" until I feel safe getting closer. Even then, take it a step at a time. But realistically it's very difficult for a lot of people here who are desperately seeking something they don't have. Particularly, but not exclusively, the guys. Desperation almost always trumps caution. I haven't always got the balance right, but overall I've avoided most of the drama everyone here always talks about.


By the way, some of us behave precisely because we are selfish. I'm an arrogant, egotistical SOB (ask anyone) -- and I prefer not looking in the mirror and seeing an asshole, any more than necessary. To the extent I play well with others (yeah, I could do better), it's not so much because of concern for them as it as concern for maintaining a positive self-image (as opposed to reputation, or how others see me). That's not a very uplifting motivation, but as long as it helps get me through the day . . . .

[TinMan]

Originally Posted by Chevalier

By the way, some of us behave precisely because we are selfish. I'm an arrogant, egotistical SOB (ask anyone) -- and I prefer not looking in the mirror and seeing an asshole, any more than necessary. To the extent I play well with others (yeah, I could do better), it's not so much because of concern for them as it as concern for maintaining a positive self-image (as opposed to reputation, or how others see me). That's not a very uplifting motivation, but as long as it helps get me through the day . . . .

This probably describes me more than I care to admit, if I took the time to be the least bit introspective. My one addendum is I learned long ago that being nice takes no more energy than being an asshole, so what's the point of making others miserable? If I'm going to play in a hobby that has the potential for so much collateral damage, why not make it a little easier on all involved by exhibiting some decent behavior?

So maybe I'm not a complete sociopath after all.

[Sir Lancehernot]

Originally Posted by Chevalier

I'm cautious, and my default rule is to maintain "distance" until I feel safe getting closer. Even then, take it a step at a time. But realistically it's very difficult for a lot of people here who are desperately seeking something they don't have. Particularly, but not exclusively, the guys. Desperation almost always trumps caution. I haven't always got the balance right, but overall I've avoided most of the drama everyone here always talks about.

I'll confess to being one of those deperadoes. As a result I've spent a lot of money on physical gratification over the years, yet most of the time -- the few exceptions being strangely, or maybe not so in the realm of L1 -- most of my encounters have left me feeling almost as empty as my wallet. I'd usually achieve what I, er, came for, but I'd usually leave feeling unfulfilled.

Only a few times have I found women who were able to provide the value that I sought. If I hadn't found one soon after I joined the hobby, and then another soon thereafter, I might nopt have continued. But I didn't believe that having loved and lost was better than never loving again. After that, it was more than a decade.

Fortunately, desperation trumped caution in one of those early relationships, and I was damned near emotionally destroyed. I've tried to err on the side of prudence ever since. One thing I learned is that you can go crazy trying to figure out whether what you're hearing or reading is just hooker-talk, designed to keep you, er coming back, or whether there might actually be some truth to the things she says or writes. And I've learned that, if you think she might welcome a little attention from you besides a periodic P411 request, it's a fine line to try to walk, between keeping the fire going and appearing to her to be a slobbering fanboy, a stalker, or some other undesirable.

One general observation I've made after a lot of time, money and ladies over the years: There appear to be two pretty heavily populated ends of the provider spectrum: those who want nothing to do with you between sessions, and those who'll try to latch on to a good horse and ride him for all he's worth, a la some of the behavior that Rehke has enabled over the years. The ones with whom its possible to conduct outside-BCD relationships -- lunch every now and then, an occasional favor done by either party, other typical friend-type stuff -- are pretty rare.

[pfmtony]

Being nice takes less energy than being an asshole. Being nice requires no energy. Being an asshole requires some effort, at least a little. Some people put a lot of effort into being assholes though, researching every post, thread, review, favorite sports teams, etc.

Going out of your way to piss off a provider because you dint like her favorite sports team.... Huge asshole and requires effort. Reading someone else's posts and always replying with a dickish comment, also being an asshole and requires effort.

I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying but going out of your way to be an asshole requires effort. I've done it. We all have. The amount of it that goes on here is mind boggling though. And the fact that.its tolerated from some because they were from aspd, long time members or whatever is BS.

I'm an asshole, but only when provoked. And trust me the rules here are not applied fairly.in this regard. If they were I'd have carte Blanche to respond in kind to a few certain individuals, but I get points for calling a duck a duck it seems.

So in conclusion, being an asshole requires effort and some people here spend monumental effort being monumental assholes. And then the week willed non thinkers pat them on the back for it.

So this "community" really is just like any other, only the names have changed.

So next time someone is expending a lot of effort being a colossal douche nozzle at least be honest that it takes effort. People are not naturally asdholes. It's learned behavior. And in a lot of cases its a natural response to the actions of the "community". I've seen a lot of providers and members attacked by assholes repeatedly and most of the time undeservingly.

I can name 5 providers that didn't deserve and still don't deserve the shit they take from the asdholes around here.

Now I will sit back and watch the assholes come at me while hiding in amonymity for stating the obvious.

Being an assholes requires effort.... And around here monumental efforts ate often made for this purpose.

Want to have a happy new year? Expend less effort.

[pyramider]

Taint requires no effort, taint is taint.