TEXAS SECESSION- what are your thoughts?

[sundog]

kingorpawn - go stick your head in the toilet - your hair is on fire.

[kingorpawn]

You'll regret those words the day when Obama gives up this country to the UN.

Originally Posted by sundog

kingorpawn - go stick your head in the toilet - your hair is on fire.

[ozmosys]

Originally Posted by kingorpawn

You'll regret those words the day when Obama gives up this country to the UN.

Yeah, probably part of the vast international conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

(what a maroon)

[kingorpawn]

I'll tell you and your new best friend Sundog that I hope you are right and I'm wrong because if I'm right it's the end of the US as we know it because Obama's
ideas of Social Justice and Marxist tendencies will destroy the country.

Hopefully, Obama will look at Europe and the mess over there and realize that he's ridiculous ideas do not work in the real world. Obama-care was his first step in that direction.

Originally Posted by ozmosys

Yeah, probably part of the vast international conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

(what a maroon)

[endurance]

sundog, it's just the repubs? really?
obama started out on the wrong foot by having Geithner as Treasury Sec. And Barney Frank after defending the disaster known as Fannie Mae for so long gets to write the fake reform with the other crook Dodd... There's so much blame to go around it's absurd. But Obama has been consistent every step of the way way in favor of the banks with a mere few token gestures to hide behind (e.g. having Volker around to ignore and a few slap on the wrist penalties against GS and JPM)

The important part is that someone answerable to the people needs to be in control of the currency, not a quasi government organization owned by the large banks. This silliness about independence from politics forces a worse alternative on us - a currency that serves the banks at our expense.

We're on the same page about the direction the world is headed in - but unsustainability due to over population is a different issue and isn't a great excuse to put up with rampant fraud as a way of life.

[ozmosys]

Originally Posted by kingorpawn

I'll tell you and your new best friend Sundog that I hope you are right and I'm wrong because if I'm right it's the end of the US as we know it because Obama's
ideas of Social Justice and Marxist tendencies will destroy the country.

Hmmm ... I don't recall declaring anyone my new best friend. But I suppose that you can just make up your own facts, if you think it helps you convince others that you're right and they're wrong.

As far as your predictions, I recall a similar prediction: the Domino theory. But after Uncle Ho outlasted our political will, how many other surrounding nations fell like dominoes? Two: Laos and Cambodia. And mostly because of the war, not in spite of it.

And the Republican Party has done far more to promote Marxism than the Dems. Think Kissinger and Nixon opening up trade with China.

Besides, all this red-baiting of Obama is so lame. No one in the world community considers Obama a Marxist, except for a few remnants of the KKK, who don't like the idea of having a black president.

And isn't that what this secession bullshit really boils down to?

[teyeger72]

Different people have different reasons for favoring secession. There is the fact that Congress has not done their constitutional job and passed a budget in over four years. There is the fact that the Supreme Court interprets laws depending on their own political bend rather than the framer's intent of the constitution. There is the fact that every president since Eisenhower has usurped the Constitution with police actions instead of getting Congressional declaration of war before taking military action. There is the fact that the majority of the country does not agree with the Electoral College but Congress refuses to initiate Amendment proceedings because it would threaten control of who actually gets elected to the White House - the original framers' intent was that the states elect the Executive, not the people - which is why we are a republic, not a democracy. There is the fact that Congress continues to grant themselves raises at just about every session and exempts elected federal officials from nearly every law they pass - even Obamacare. The Constitution is only as strong as those elected officials who actually abide by it. Once it got thrown out the window - it became worthless and the US ceased to exist as it was built to be.

[sundog]

Endurance, you seem to forget that the original TARP bailout was a Bush deal, jammed through by Henry Paulson (Goldman - Sachs, CSX) because he had gotten word of the massive disaster caused mostly by the dismantling of Glass-Steagall. Glass-Steagall served us well for many decades because it limited the leverage exposure in the marketplace. Then some clever folks who deal with other people's money invented the derivatives market, Glass-Steagall was burned on the floor of the exchange, and the crooks were off to the races. After the 2008 election the Obama team put limits and requirements on the TARP money, and at least that much of it had accountability and was paid back. As far as Geithner is concerned I've never been thrilled with him. Volker was a calming voice in a turbulent moment. The real culprit was Greenspan, and he's even admitted as much. Oh, and don't forget Mister Unlimited Economic Growth - Milton Friedman. Unlimited growth in the human body is called cancer. Sustainability is what we should be after, and that comes with self-discipline and self-sufficiency. Globalization makes us internationally dependent and serves only the bankers and the uber-rich. I've never been a fan. I am a fan, however, of helping others to become self-sufficient in micro-economies in the realm of fuel, energy and food, and I think there is an answer there, but we can't do that at the end of a gun barrel.

I couldn't agree with you more that blame resides on both sides of the aisle, but the answer is in accountability, not in term limits, or in scrapping the whole shebang. Proper exercise of accountability i.e., prosecution of the guilty (re: Randy Cunniningham and others like him) is a form of term limits in itself. Too often governing bodies drape themselves with immunity even before they act.

As far as Freddie and Fannie are concerned, those institutions bought toxic mortgages that were certified AAA by S&P, Moody's, et al. They don't write mortgages. Their incompetence resided in their failure to perform an exacting due diligence. Why didn't they do that? Well, possibly because the "trusted and respected" ratings entities had given their blessings. Freddie and Fannie weren't the only ones fooled...Lehman is gone, Merrill-Lynch got sucked up by BOA, Countrywide is toast, and the perpetrators are living abroad with their ill-gotten gains.

I welcome Elizabeth Warren into the fray. I agree that the Fed is "owned" by the banks. I agree that having an independent manager of our currency is a good idea (Elizabeth Warren again), but to ignore overpopulation as a root cause for this is to ignore the human nature that accompanies dangerous times such as these. Rats in a maze with limited food comes to mind. India and China are building interstate highway systems and cars. Gasoline prices are going up, up and away. Petroleum resources, vital to the food supply more than even transportation because of their use in fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides and ag fuels are dwindling, no matter how much we frack (which brings me to water use in fracking, but then this tome could go on forever...). What I'm trying to say is that greed as a means of protecting yourself from the is a pretty natural response to the problems we face, which is why we need controls and regulations to limit that greed.

Endurance, we are on the same page, and I have actually been on that path since my return from Vietnam, and will continue to be an advocate and entrepreneur in that field until I expire and they make me into a big pot of green chile. It's not wise to waste food, even though I might be a little old and tough.

Oh, one more thing - kingorpawn, judging by the retro argument you keep spouting I'm guessing you are of the Christian persuasion. If so, what do you have against social justice? Your hair is still on fire, but maybe you don't have indoor plumbing. In that case I don't blame you for sticking your head in there.

[sundog]

Teyeger - The Constitution was devised to be an ever-evolving document. The folks who elect the folks who appoint the judges are the ones who can change it. That's us - We The People. The Ship of State still continues to sail, driven by that grand document that serves as its sail. The secessionists wish to hole her hull. If I remember correctly, Obama had both a majority of the popular vote as well as a whopping 332 Electoral College votes, in spite of Citizens United and the efforts of some 22 Republican state legislatures attempting to suppress the vote. The democratic process by which we change our laws is messy and requires patience, not much of which is being exhibited by the secessionists.

[ThrillBill88]

Originally Posted by ozmosys

Besides, all this red-baiting of Obama is so lame. No one in the world community considers Obama a Marxist, except for a few remnants of the KKK, who don't like the idea of having a black president.

And isn't that what this secession bullshit really boils down to?

Typical. Can't win the debate with facts or logic, so play the race card.

[ozmosys]

Originally Posted by ThrillBill88

Typical. Can't win the debate with facts or logic, so play the race card.

Yeah, the same race card that Mitt Romney played when he whined that he got his ass kicked because Obama was promising "gifts" to blacks and Hispanics.

But Romney just dealt a dead man's hand to the GOP, if they want the WH in 2016. Unless they do some serious sucking up to a non-white demographic, they will soon go the way of Twinkies, Ho Ho's, and Wonder Bread.

That will be a difficult balancing act for the party that's been sucking up to disaffected whites in the South ever since the Civil Rights act. They might just get all sucked out.

[kingorpawn]

Originally Posted by sundog

Endurance, you seem to forget that the original TARP bailout was a Bush deal, jammed through by Henry Paulson (Goldman - Sachs, CSX) because he had gotten word of the massive disaster caused mostly by the dismantling of Glass-Steagall. Glass-Steagall served us well for many decades because it limited the leverage exposure in the marketplace. Then some clever folks who deal with other people's money invented the derivatives market, Glass-Steagall was burned on the floor of the exchange, and the crooks were off to the races. After the 2008 election the Obama team put limits and requirements on the TARP money, and at least that much of it had accountability and was paid back. As far as Geithner is concerned I've never been thrilled with him. Volker was a calming voice in a turbulent moment. The real culprit was Greenspan, and he's even admitted as much. Oh, and don't forget Mister Unlimited Economic Growth - Milton Friedman. Unlimited growth in the human body is called cancer. Sustainability is what we should be after, and that comes with self-discipline and self-sufficiency. Globalization makes us internationally dependent and serves only the bankers and the uber-rich. I've never been a fan. I am a fan, however, of helping others to become self-sufficient in micro-economies in the realm of fuel, energy and food, and I think there is an answer there, but we can't do that at the end of a gun barrel.

I couldn't agree with you more that blame resides on both sides of the aisle, but the answer is in accountability, not in term limits, or in scrapping the whole shebang. Proper exercise of accountability i.e., prosecution of the guilty (re: Randy Cunniningham and others like him) is a form of term limits in itself. Too often governing bodies drape themselves with immunity even before they act.

As far as Freddie and Fannie are concerned, those institutions bought toxic mortgages that were certified AAA by S&P, Moody's, et al. They don't write mortgages. Their incompetence resided in their failure to perform an exacting due diligence. Why didn't they do that? Well, possibly because the "trusted and respected" ratings entities had given their blessings. Freddie and Fannie weren't the only ones fooled...Lehman is gone, Merrill-Lynch got sucked up by BOA, Countrywide is toast, and the perpetrators are living abroad with their ill-gotten gains.

I welcome Elizabeth Warren into the fray. I agree that the Fed is "owned" by the banks. I agree that having an independent manager of our currency is a good idea (Elizabeth Warren again), but to ignore overpopulation as a root cause for this is to ignore the human nature that accompanies dangerous times such as these. Rats in a maze with limited food comes to mind. India and China are building interstate highway systems and cars. Gasoline prices are going up, up and away. Petroleum resources, vital to the food supply more than even transportation because of their use in fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides and ag fuels are dwindling, no matter how much we frack (which brings me to water use in fracking, but then this tome could go on forever...). What I'm trying to say is that greed as a means of protecting yourself from the is a pretty natural response to the problems we face, which is why we need controls and regulations to limit that greed.

Endurance, we are on the same page, and I have actually been on that path since my return from Vietnam, and will continue to be an advocate and entrepreneur in that field until I expire and they make me into a big pot of green chile. It's not wise to waste food, even though I might be a little old and tough.

Oh, one more thing - kingorpawn, judging by the retro argument you keep spouting I'm guessing you are of the Christian persuasion. If so, what do you have against social justice? Your hair is still on fire, but maybe you don't have indoor plumbing. In that case I don't blame you for sticking your head in there.

Sort of; however, I don't have a problem with Social Justice. The Repub want to limit social entitlements and the Demo want to have more social entitlements. I do believe there a lot of people that need those entitlements. My problem with Obama's way of thinking is that he believes from what I've seen is that taxing the hell of everything is the way to prosperity. It failed in California. It failed in Europe. The 65 yr socialist experiment has failed. The more entitlements you give, the more people will get use to it. We got 40 million people on food stamps. It's unsustainable. Cities are broke. We have unfunded pension funds. Obama-care will be paid for by just taxing whatever Obama wants too which will become nothing more that socialized health-care. He will put more liberal judges in the supreme court to continue his outdated beliefs.

Obama, his wife, and his buddies like harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi live in the past. They have 1950's & 1960's beliefs. They are stuck in the past. His experiences as a child and what happen between his parents, what he saw as a community organizer are driving his ideology that doesn't work in the real world. He thinks like I'll take a little more from those in the suburbs and give it to the poor in the urban neighborhoods and then everybody will be happy. Social Justice.

[kingorpawn]

Originally Posted by ozmosys

Yeah, the same race card that Mitt Romney played when he whined that he got his ass kicked because Obama was promising "gifts" to blacks and Hispanics.

But Romney just dealt a dead man's hand to the GOP, if they want the WH in 2016. Unless they do some serious sucking up to a non-white demographic, they will soon go the way of Twinkies, Ho Ho's, and Wonder Bread.

That will be a difficult balancing act for the party that's been sucking up to disaffected whites in the South ever since the Civil Rights act. They might just get all sucked out.

Oz you have been playing the race card from the beginning. Obama used it pretty well himself. Everybody I know that likes Obama accuses me of being racist. I actually like Obama. I find him entertaining. I could probably hang out with guy. I just don't like his ridiculous ideology because they are
Un-American and outdated. And he did buy the Hispanic vote with gifts. As for those non-white demographics, Obama better do something about them like getting them educated, starting businesses, etc because they are going to destroy the country in the next 20-30 yrs unless they step up. The economy we have today was built mostly by the white baby-boomers and folks from other countries who immigrated over here, but are now retiring. They were the entrepreneurs, the innovators, etc. The hispanics are the new baby-boomers who are not keeping up. The white population is declining and unless those non-whites start stepping up to the plate this country is finished. We will fall behind the rest of the world economically. Even Obama said in early 2011, in a speech he made, that the future of the country depends on the Hispanics. The majority of the college students are white females (65%), followed by white males (45%) then followed by hispanics (10%), african-americans (10%) and asians. So unless those non-whites get their shit together we are done. Obama knows this.

[ozmosys]

Originally Posted by kingorpawn

The more entitlements you give, the more people will get use to it. We got 40 million people on food stamps. It's unsustainable.

Food stamps aren't an entitlement. They're an agricultural subsidy, and they generate about $1.80 in economic stimulus for every dollar spent.

And $76 billion in a $15 trillion economy is hardly unsustainable. That's around a half of a percent.

I think we can afford that, so that low-income people, including U.S. soldiers, can put a little extra food on the table. Unless we're a nation of Scrooges.

[kingorpawn]

Originally Posted by ozmosys

Food stamps aren't an entitlement. They're an agricultural subsidy, and they generate about $1.80 in economic stimulus for every dollar spent.

And $76 billion in a $15 trillion economy is hardly unsustainable. That's around a half of a percent.

I think we can afford that, so that low-income people, including U.S. soldiers, can put a little extra food on the table. Unless we're a nation of Scrooges.

Like I said there are definitely folks that need them and that includes medicare, medicaid, but they can also be abused. We need to reduce or eliminate fraud and give it to only those that need it. I will say one thing. Because of the recession, perhaps, giving out food stamps was a good thing to reduce crime or soup lines. But Obama has too start moving the economy forward, long-term. We'll see.

I come from a military family. My family has served this country from WW 2 to Vietnam to both gulf wars.