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Old 04-19-2021, 12:43 PM   #76
GastonGlock
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Originally Posted by reddog1951 View Post
"To them, it was "lawfully entering the Capital, halting unlawful congressional business and stopping them from forcing their will as unlawfully elected representatives onto the American people."

Please list the members of Congress that day who were unlawfully elected.
You'll have to ask them. I don't know that one. All I know is that both sides are claiming to be "fighting for the soul of the nation".

Which proves the point that wars aren't fought between good guys and bad guys, just two groups that think they're right.
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Old 04-19-2021, 02:52 PM   #77
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I guess trespassing isn't a crime anymore?



Because that officer was the only one at that post. Watch the video. One shot did the job, did it not? Did anyone else come through that door/window? Did anyone come closer to the people the officer was protecting?

I've seen the video. There was more than one person coming into the space. If I was in fear for my life like has been alleged then I will fire a single shot into the ceiling to warn off the protestors. If I'm really afraid then I'm going to put several targeted rounds into the crowd to break up the threat. One round into one person and no more means someone fucked up. That person should be identified and charged or it will happen again.


In the world where masses of people have just stormed the Capitol screaming about lynching elected officials and those elected officials are 100 feet behind you (not proven but I'd bet large sums of money this was the case).
You'd probably be wrong. The capital building is a honeycomb of offices and safe sites. Tell me again, how many elected representatives soiled themselves on January 6th? How many did the same on the baseball field when a Bernie bro tried to kill republicans?
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Old 04-19-2021, 02:58 PM   #78
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I am not the one unresponsive to points made.

I asked for a rational justification for the disruption of legitimate congressional business and what is replied is:

"Easy answer: They were defending the Constitution against the "Domestic Enemies" inside the building holding a vote."

Not correct. Some of them believed that they were defending the Constitution against domestic enemies. Like I said about lawful orders, you get to decide what you think but heaven help you if you're wrong.

Sorry, but not rational at all. How in the hell is that defending the constitution? How in the hell do you rationalize that any one man, or for that matter a few hundred as a group have the right to determine what is a domestic enemy on their own volition?

The fact is that we all have the right and responsibility to determine who the enemy is or is not. The left has certain been vocal about who are Nazis, fascists, and white supremists. Don't see you calling them out.

By that perverted logic, one person, or a small group has similar justification to likewise disrupt any city council meeting simply because they don't like the leash law under consideration.

Sorry, they may not have liked the results of the election, they may have felt that it was "stolen"...I'm not arguing those points at all...but they crossed a line that cannot be tolerated to be crossed by unlawfully entering the Capital, disrupting lawful congressional business and somehow thinking they could force their will upon duly elected representatives of the American people.
You're not arguing the point because this opened up about how veterans and active duty military personnel were scum according to you. Yes, you were coming down on the military but you've strayed from that point.
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Old 04-19-2021, 04:04 PM   #79
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"You're not arguing the point because this opened up about how veterans and active duty military personnel were scum according to you. Yes, you were coming down on the military but you've strayed from that point."

Exactly where did I come down on the military?

"The fact is that we all have the right and responsibility to determine who the enemy is or is not."

Not arguing the right to self determine opinions. We also have the right to vote, lobby, run for office and peacefully assemble.
Please show me where we are granted the RIGHT to forcefully barge in on a lawfully gathered legislative assembly with the minimal intent of disrupting the function of such assembly and maximal intent of....who knows, but at least a threat to the personal safety of such legislators.
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Old 04-19-2021, 05:52 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by reddog1951 View Post
Please show me where we are granted the RIGHT to forcefully barge in on a lawfully gathered legislative assembly with the minimal intent of disrupting the function of such assembly and maximal intent of....who knows, but at least a threat to the personal safety of such legislators.
I don't think that right exists per se, but I'm a big believer in the notion that a politician that isn't fearful of their lives has too much power.
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Old 04-19-2021, 06:08 PM   #81
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And on what exactly do you base the belief that a politician should fear for their life?
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Old 04-19-2021, 06:16 PM   #82
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And on what exactly do you base the belief that a politician should fear for their life?
That all people are predisposed to tyranny when given adequate power, and that power should not be given to people who actively seek it, especially if they think its for the good of others.

To be clear, I don't seek anarchy. Anarchy is a transitive stage that just leads to small stage tyranny and then larger stage tyranny.

I think the system we have, when used as intended, is the best: That federal power is not absolute, and that leaders work at the mercy of the populace they serve, not the other way around. That leaders should be of the common man, and forced to live among them, and not as a special privileged class.

The first amendment guarantees our right to be critical of those that govern us, and the second amendment is the Sword of Damocles over the heads of those in government who wish to abuse their power or infringe on the rights of the populace they serve.
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Old 04-19-2021, 06:42 PM   #83
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I might mostly agree, until you got to the second amendment part at which point your point to me seems to be a quantum leap of rationalization.

Agreed that legislators should live more akin to the common man. Get rid of the special health insurance, give them ordinary Medicare, no life ling pensions, term limits...but those are separate topics not relevant here.

But, how were OUR governmental representatives infringing on the rights of the populace on Jan 6? Seems to me they were fulfilling their constitutional duties. Maybe a few hundred didn't like the likely outcome, but I don't think any were named Damascles.
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:08 PM   #84
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And this just in, the cause of death for the Capital cop? Natural causes. So add another lie by the MSM. Every single commentator on MSNBC and CNN spewed the exact same story, "killed by being hit in the head by a fire extinguisher". Fox ran a montage as they often do and it must have lasted for 5 minutes of every asshole that repeated that lie and I guarantee you not a one of them will apologize.


The "go to attorney" for MSNBC went so far as to say that Trump should have been charged and found guilty of "felony murder" because he incited the crowd that "killed the officer".


So, 4 out of 5 died from natural cause and the 5th was a Trump supporter. So much for "5 dead at the Capital at the hands of Trump supporters.


At this rate, Biden and the Dems and MSNBC will exceed the total number of lies Trump told in less than 1 year.
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:14 PM   #85
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And this just in, the cause of death for the Capital cop? Natural causes. So add another lie by the MSM. Every single commentator on MSNBC and CNN spewed the exact same story, "killed by being hit in the head by a fire extinguisher". Fox ran a montage as they often do and it must have lasted for 5 minutes of every asshole that repeated that lie and I guarantee you not a one of them will apologize.


The "go to attorney" for MSNBC went so far as to say that Trump should have been charged and found guilty of "felony murder" because he incited the crowd that "killed the officer".


So, 4 out of 5 died from natural cause and the 5th was a Trump supporter. So much for "5 dead at the Capital at the hands of Trump supporters.


At this rate, Biden and the Dems and MSNBC will exceed the total number of lies Trump told in less than 1 year.
what do you mean "Trump lied?"


BAHHAHAAHAAAAAAAA


this just in ..

https://tgpfactcheck.com/washpost-re...-biden-a-liar/


WashPost Redefines Words to Avoid Calling Biden a Liar

  • WashPost says “Bipartisan” means voters, not elected officials, to justify Joe Biden saying he has ‘bipartisan’ support for bills that have zero GOP votes
  • Prior Fact-Checks on the same concept have given completely different definitions
  • WashPost quotes a long-time left-wing media consultant and quotes her as a ‘Biden official’ in order to cover her financial conflict of interest
OUR RATING: Trash Journalism, aka the Daily Beast.
Indicted Outlet: Ashley Parker | The Washington Post | Link | Archive
Ashley Parker in the Washington Post, a corporate media outlet owned by Amazon’s Jeff Bezos who receives billions from the government in no-bid contracts, wrote a news article that said President Biden’s claims of ‘bipartisan support’ for his agenda was true because it included support from Republican voters, even though there wasn’t a single Republican member of the Senate or House who supported his legislation.

This is wordplay meant to avoid calling President Biden a liar, which he clearly is on this matter. And by providing this semantic defense, Parker is showing her partisan bias.

Major Violations:
  • Partisan
  • Opinion as Fact
  • Misuing a word
  • Unbalanced
As seems to often be the case, the journalistic left prefers to redefine words rather than admit anything that might politically harm the left-wing agenda. Here, the question is over the definition of the word “bipartisan” as used by President Biden when he claims that his COVID relief plan and infrastructure bills.

If you were to look at the definition for bipartisan, you would find that it generally says support from both parties. [2]
marked by or involving cooperation, agreement, and compromise between two major political parties
This generally tracks what Parker quotes from left-wing Anita Dunn:
“If you looked up ‘bipartisan’ in the dictionary, I think it would say support from Republicans and Democrats,” said Anita Dunn, a senior Biden adviser. “It doesn’t say the Republicans have to be in Congress.”
But we aren’t talking about some political science concept known as “bipartisanship” we are, instead, asking whether the COVID relief package and the infrastructure legislation enjoyed bipartisan support. And in that analysis, of course the actual composition of the legislators involved is important and critical to that analysis.

The quote of Anita Dunn effectively presents her opinion as fact. Dunn is quoted as an advisor to the President, neglecting to provide the context that she has been a prominent figure in SKDK for many years, operating as a communications consultant and spin doctor to left-wing politicians for decades. [3] The firm was referred to as a public relations powerhouse by Breitbart [4] and their left-wing clients read as a prominent roster of powerful interests. [5]

This quote would be very out-of-place if Dunn and her experience had been identified properly. Instead of just a “senior Biden adviser” it would have been a bit gauche to quote a left-wing, hired gun media communications expert to give her opinion on how her client, and the elected official who will make her millions of dollars, of course isn’t a liar and we should instead reinterpret and redefine a basic word in order to accommodate that thesis.

If something makes an obvious and significant difference to the financial interests of a quoted subject, and a reporter hides the basis of that financial interest, they are committing a serious journalistic crime to their readers. Obscuring those connections denies their readers the ability to understand why the source might be motivated to lie, or in this case to extremely stretch credibility on the meaning of words.

This may seem like semantics but this is a major issue, considering that the vast majority of readers of a story will not take the time to discover the extended biography of a quoted source.

It would be extremely dishonest and deceptive if a news outlet were to call a party-line vote on legislation a ‘bipartisan’ act because one voter from the opposition party, somewhere, voiced support. That interpretation would make the word have no meaning, it would render the concept of those two terms: bipartisan and partisan, as essentially meaningless. Of course there are going to be people from both parties who go against the majority of their elected officials on any topic.

In December 2019 FactCheck.org declared a claim to “Bipartisan bills” by Nancy Pelosi ‘false’ not because it had zero from the opposing party like Biden’s proposals, but they were rated false because they had some but not a majority of votes from the opposing party. [6]

Certainly if the phrase “bipartisan bills” means nearing a majority from both parties in 2019, the same phrase should mean more than zero in 2021.

And really this is also a way to make an extremely partisan argument in a subtle way: that elected Republicans do not represent their voters in any way. It is to assume the absolute illegitimacy of the party not in power, and total lack of representation. Either an elected official represents the constituents who put them into power, or they do not. According to the Washington Post, by Biden having effective bipartisan support, it also means that the elected Republicans properly represent no one.

That’s an argument you expect from left-wing zealots and hardened campaign hacks, not from journalists as they twist and weave their narrative agendas into their news pieces.

Notably the only two Republicans Parker found to buttress her story was Senator Mitt Romney, who blasted the concept, and the Republican Mayor of Mesa, Arizona, a suburb of Phoenix. The story is unbalanced because it assumes an advocacy role throughout: it is clearly seeking to validate the political claims of the Biden camp by advancing the thesis that ‘bipartisan’ need not include any elected Republicans, a claim that is silly on its face.

Ashley Parker is making an unserious point using unserious people in this piece, it’s neither news or opinion, it’s trash and she should be ashamed of herself.

OUR RATING: Trash Journalism, aka the Daily Beast.

Bibliography:

1 ] https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...2a5_story.html
2 ] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bipartisan
3 ] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SKDK
4 ] https://www.breitbart.com/entertainm...sses-involved/
5 ] https://www.influencewatch.org/for-p...knickerbocker/
6 ] https://www.factcheck.org/2019/12/pe...sanship-boast/
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:15 PM   #86
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Is what's gonna happen in MIN , well is it INSURRECTION Is the siege of Portland Insurrection
Or unlawful terrorist activity Just a question
I'll ask again, is this supposed to be english?
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:19 PM   #87
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I'll ask again, is this supposed to be english?

Yes.
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:20 PM   #88
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I'll ask again, is this supposed to be english?


He's just another FOX goober.

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Old 04-19-2021, 09:21 PM   #89
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Yes.

Right. It's supposed to be.
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Old 04-19-2021, 09:23 PM   #90
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I don't think that right exists per se, but I'm a big believer in the notion that a politician that isn't fearful of their lives has too much power.
IMHO, this kind of thinking is used to justify murder.

Personally, I prefer "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
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