Buffett Speaks The Truth

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

It completely baffles me how the Republicans have conditioned the folks who are getting fucked by these tax cuts to make the fight for the ones who are benefiting from them. ....................

Because these people WISH they were rich that's how. Maybe someday they'll be rich or some such nonsense. What they don't realize is but by the grace of God they could be the next guy registering for unemployment and worrying about his house.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

What is it about our education system, or our political process, that leads folks to act in a way that is so clearly contrary to their economic interest. I've studied behavioral psychology and behavioral economics looking for an answer and can't find one. Their actions are at war with the general tenants of democracy and microeconomics. Why do they engage in this behavior. Does anyone have any theories? I'm truly asking because I'm frankly completely stumped on this one.

I can actually have some respect for people who might vote against their self interests - if they do so for what they think is the betterment of the country. You do it, don't ya TTH? I know i do - simply by my voting Democratic i fully expect my taxes to go up. And that's not because i think Democratics are bigger spenders than Republicans (they might each spend on different priorities, but they're both big spenders). It's because i think if one party is mature enough to accept the fact that we should pay our bills, it's the Democratic party.

I've said it once, and i'll say it again. People vote Democratic because, as a country, we like SS, Medicare, HEAP, PELL Grants, Medicaid, etc etc etc. And people vote Republican because, as a country, we like not having to pay for any of it.

What i don't understand, however, is when people vote for the betterment of a social/economic class in which they don't belong, to the detriment of the class in which they do belong.

[Jackie S]

Fire all of his accountants and lawyers who help him with all of his "deductions", and simply do as many of us do, fill out your short form 1040 and pay the going rate for your bracket.

I challenge all Hollywood Actors, Rock Stars, CEO's, Pro Athelets, etc to do the same.

Simple.

[BigLouie]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

...simply do as many of us do, fill out your short form 1040 and pay the going rate for your bracket.

OK so what if your take rate is only 16.6% due to the Republican party coddling the Ultra Rich.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight

The book What's the Matter with Kansas? by Thomas Frank offers clear answers to your questions.

I've read it when it came out and find the explanation insufficient and unpersuasive to explain behavior that deviates that much from a persons economic interest. And many of the hot button cultural issues that Frank has talked about have faded. One of the reasons that the Koch brother paid Russo Marsh, Tim Phillips, Matt Kibbe, et al to start the Tea Party movement was to create a movement that was unaligned on abortion and same sex marriage.

And frankly, the idea is not new to Frank. It goes back at least to Kevin Phillips book in the late 1960's or early 1970's, The New Emerging Republican Majority (or something like that). Bob Huckfelt also wrote a similar book about 20 years later called Race and the Decline of Class in U.S. Politics that is more or less about the same thing -- Wallace (or Nixon or Reagan) Democrats defecting to the Republican Party.

But I've never see it as bad as it is now. And it has never been so obvious that the economic interests of the party is at odds with the economic interest of the voters. The Republicans don't even make any bones about it now. It's just "We're only defending the rights of those who make more than a quarter of a million a year not to pay any more income taxes. That's it. And we'll hold any issue that benefits any number of other Americans hostage to that one goal." There are no code words like "welfare queen in a Cadillac", on Willie Horton ads, no notion of "trickle down economics." It's just "we're looking out for the rich -- fuck everybody else!"

Originally Posted by Doove

I can actually have some respect for people who might vote against their self interests - if they do so for what they think is the betterment of the country. You do it, don't ya TTH? I know i do - simply by my voting Democratic i fully expect my taxes to go up.

I'm not rich enough to be a Republican yet. I've always aspired to be, but I'm not there yet.

I expect to rely on Medicare once I'm out of the work force (assuming I live that long). I suspect I could get and afford insurance into my early 70's if I continued to work to that age and stayed in a group, but if I quit working before then, I can't imagine how much an individual policy would cost given the number of pre-existing conditions I have. Fortunately, I'm in a field where I could put in a day or two a week and still be of use to a law firm. But after the mid 70's who knows?

I figure you have to have $15M or so for it to be in your economic interest to be a Republican. Maybe not that much if you are purely an investor and can save huge amounts via capital gains taxes. But I'd be tickled to pay 4.6% more in taxes if all the Republicans who made the same money did likewise.

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by WTF

Nobody is resentful of anyone making 20mil but some folks do not like the fact that the 20mil person supports wars and then does not want to pay for them.

But the damnedest thing is that by and large, the folks who make $20M aren't asking to keep their taxes low.

I don't make that kind of money, but I know a hand full of folks who do. And not one of them think for a minute that keeping their taxes 4.6% lower is really that important compared to the other issues facing the country. It's the stupid motherfuckers making $35,000 - $75,000 who are all pissed off about keeping my taxes lower.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

I'm not rich enough to be a Republican yet. I've always aspired to be, but I'm not there yet.

Sure you are. A large part of their base makes less than 50 grand a year.

We will probably never know why these people vote against their own and all American's interests. It is their right to vote any way they want.

A side note about increasing the gov. work force.
After my mother passed away, her mail continued to come to my house. She had blue cross/blue shield. Statements continued for 18 months. "Not a bill" they proclaimed. They showed payments to providers. Providers that charged for a service at an address my mother had not been at for a year before she died. I started calling the numbers on the invoices. The listed number wasn't for a new order. That was a separate number. It wasn't the contact number BC/BS had. They were mostly answering machines that said someone would get back to me. Who didn't. I called BC/BS about the obvious mistake. There was no process for recovering the money FOR BC/BS BECAUSE MY MOTHER WAS DEAD! That is when I was told about the 18 month "reasonable response time". 18 months is how long they have to submit a charge. Ask your 85 YO mother if she had blood work done 15 months ago.

We need investigators. No salary but they get 25% of what they recover. That is my contribution for job creation ideas. Health care costs go down. Medicare spending goes down. Taxable income goes up.

[Munchmasterman]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Fire all of his accountants and lawyers who help him with all of his "deductions", and simply do as many of us do, fill out your short form 1040 and pay the going rate for your bracket.

I challenge all Hollywood Actors, Rock Stars, CEO's, Pro Athelets, etc to do the same.

Simple.

Put a bunch of upper middle Americans on the street. More lost tax revenues.
Why should anyone pay a penny more in taxes because you say they should?

That's why a voluntary solution won't work. The vast majority of people will pay only what is required. Which is why the required amount should be regulated by law.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Fire all of his accountants and lawyers who help him with all of his "deductions", and simply do as many of us do, fill out your short form 1040 and pay the going rate for your bracket.

I challenge all Hollywood Actors, Rock Stars, CEO's, Pro Athelets, etc to do the same.

Simple.

Am i the only one who seems to think that Jackie S really appears to hate people who are better off than him?

As he bitches about other people whom he perceives to be jealous of him, no less?

[Jackie S]

The top rate for W-2 income is somewhere in the 39 percent bracket.

Since I have reached the point in life where I have no deductions that can be charged toward my 1040 withholdings, I simply do my short form taxes and pay what ever the going rate is.

If Warren, and all of his fellow billionaires make around one billion in the tax year, just do the short form and cut a check for about 390 million to the Government.

What is so difficult about that. They would then be paying the same percentage as I do.

Sure, I know that they pay multitudes of accountants to make sure that most of their income does not fall under the same guidelines as the vast majority of Americans, but that is the problem. All income, whether classified as earned or not, should be subjected to the same taxable precentage as standard wages.

simple.

[Whirlaway]

In response........

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Because these people WISH they were rich that's how. Maybe someday they'll be rich or some such nonsense. You call it non sense; but to many it is called the American Dream; it is why millions around the world want to become citizens...and for generations it wasn't "non sense" but a reality !!

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

What they don't realize is but by the grace of God they could be the next guy registering for unemployment and worrying about his house. Who do you think you are to presume that these people don't worry about these things; but still hold on to dreams of a better life (if not for them then their children)?

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

The top rate for W-2 income is somewhere in the 39 percent bracket.

Since I have reached the point in life where I have no deductions that can be charged toward my 1040 withholdings, I simply do my short form taxes and pay what ever the going rate is.

If Warren, and all of his fellow billionaires make around one billion in the tax year, just do the short form and cut a check for about 390 million to the Government.

What is so difficult about that. They would then be paying the same percentage as I do.

Sure, I know that they pay multitudes of accountants to make sure that most of their income does not fall under the same guidelines as the vast majority of Americans, but that is the problem. All income, whether classified as earned or not, should be subjected to the same taxable precentage as standard wages.

simple.

Buffet makes the majority of his income on Long term Capital gains, that rate right now for him is 15%. Which has resulted in a huge transfer of wealth to the ultra rich, thanks to those Bush tax cuts.


Short-term capital gains are taxed at the investor's ordinary income tax rate, and are defined as investments held for a year or less before being sold. Long-term capital gains, which apply to assets held for more than one year, are taxed at a lower rate than short-term gains. In 2003, this rate was reduced to 15%, and to 5% for individuals in the lowest two income tax brackets. The reduced 15% tax rate on qualified dividends and long term capital gains, previously scheduled to expire in 2008, was extended through 2010 as a result of the Tax Reconciliation Act signed into law by President George W. Bush on May 17, 2006. This was extended through 2012 in legislation passed by Congress and signed by President Barack Obama on Dec 17, 2010. As a result:

• In 2008–2012, the tax rate on qualified dividends and long term capital gains is 0% for those in the 10% and 15% income tax brackets.
• After 2012, dividends will be taxed at the taxpayer's ordinary income tax rate, regardless of his or her tax bracket.
• After 2012, the long-term capital gains tax rate will be 20% (10% for taxpayers in the 15% tax bracket).
• After 2012, the qualified five-year 18% capital gains rate (8% for taxpayers in the 15% tax bracket) will be reinstated.

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

But the damnedest thing is that by and large, the folks who make $20M aren't asking to keep their taxes low.

I don't make that kind of money, but I know a hand full of folks who do. And not one of them think for a minute that keeping their taxes 4.6% lower is really that important compared to the other issues facing the country. It's the stupid motherfuckers making $35,000 - $75,000 who are all pissed off about keeping my taxes lower.

first off, buffett was only taking about people making more than 1 million per year. which is a small fraction and the tax increase he is talking about is miniscule and he should know and does know it has no, zero, nada, impact on our state of affairs. it is merely a feel goodism thing. so he can feel just as good donating money.

obama, though, has spent the last however many, 4 years maybe? talking about raising taxes on single people making over $200,000 per year and couples over $250,000, which does have more impact and does affect the economy, however for income taxes to truly have any sort of effective deficit reduction, (assuming the buttholes would hold the line on spending, which is laughable), the taxes on lower income citizens would need to be raised. but there are funny things about raising taxes. one is they do effect the economy and jobs in a downward manner, and two, government just keeps on spending and the taxes plop like small drops in the ocean.


You miss the point, perhaps purposely, to provide you a talking point and foment class warfare, which is what democrats do.

you say people are pissed about taxes and taxes on rich people at that, and you end there with wonder and a shake of your head. well yes, they are pissed about taxes, but not in a vacuum, not separated from everything else that people see and know.

people arent pissed about taxes as if taxes were the issue, in and of itself.

taxes? yes, a necessary evil and would be tolerated by most all americans. yes, taxes, given the right need and leadership, the american people would pitch in willingly.

for you to think (or say) its taxes and someones elses taxes at that, that have americans pissed is hilarious.

so here is what people are pissed about:

people are pissed at the government class

they are pissed at the elitism

they are pissed at the ever expanding federal government wasting, defrauding, piling up debt, people so arranging things as to curry favor, pay-off constinuencies and be re-elected, government bureacracies that only serve to make sure government jobs are secure and more and more benefits keep coming.

they are pissed at the ruling class making promise upon promise that in the long run cannot be met and in the short run, rips industry from many deluded souls looking for a ride.

they see bailouts of unions and wallstreet and programs like fannie mae and freddie mac wasting billions and billions and being protected by people sent to protect us, and allowing insiders to make millions and millions and want it to stop.

they see taxes being wasted

they want to decrease the size of government and see taxes as feeding the size of goverment

they already think goverment has enough of the annual production of this country.

they want to see real cuts, not washington slight of hand.

they know holding the line on taxes , anyone's taxes, is a way to decrease the size of the syringe drawing life's blood into this bloat as much as is possible.

they do not want more goverment programs, spending and waste, and power flowing ever more to washington.

in effect, people trust other american people much more than they do government for goverment has strayed far beyond its charter and purpose and needs to be constrained. providing more taxes, anyone's taxes, does not constrain this behemoth.

so for you to say taxes are the issue, and someone elses taxes at that, shows little in understanding or much in obfuscation.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

The top rate for W-2 income is somewhere in the 39 percent bracket.

Since I have reached the point in life where I have no deductions that can be charged toward my 1040 withholdings, I simply do my short form taxes and pay what ever the going rate is.

If Warren, and all of his fellow billionaires make around one billion in the tax year, just do the short form and cut a check for about 390 million to the Government.

What is so difficult about that. They would then be paying the same percentage as I do.

Sure, I know that they pay multitudes of accountants to make sure that most of their income does not fall under the same guidelines as the vast majority of Americans, but that is the problem. All income, whether classified as earned or not, should be subjected to the same taxable precentage as standard wages.

simple.

YOU ARE JUST PLAIN STUPID !!!!

That being said, I need some well deserved sleep

[iman77]

I read an article the other day about taxing the rich. I don't remember what website it was on, but it stated that if the "rich", people makeing over $5 mil a year were to have their taxes doubled, it would net just under $300 bil in extra tax revenues each year.

If the 52% of Americans (about 75 million people) that pay 0 income tax were to pay , plus some increase to the rich, plus cutting funding for the EPA, DOE, DOI, NPR, NEA, combined with Social Securtiy and Medicare reform, we might start getting somewhere.

The flat tax is where the solution lies. People couldn't get around it. No loopholes or anything. You make a purchase, you pay a tax. That would get the illegals, tax code cheaters, rich, and companies all at once.