Sinema stands with her fellow Democrats on social spending and climate bill. It’s a done deal.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by lustylad

So much for hoping Sinema would remove the poison!

Look - I'm not a fan of stock buybacks. They're often the last refuge of the unimaginative CEO. But they do have their time and place. The last thing I want to see is the fucking feds sticking their greedy fingers into yet another place where they have no business going - this time, they're gumming up the free flow of capital and infringing on the freedom of private companies to fine-tune their own balance sheets.

This is dangerous and frightening stuff. It's a sop to the clueless socialists who disparage ALL stock buybacks as evil because they hate capitalism and, like Bernie Sanders, never worked in the private sector or met a payroll and therefore don't understand the workings of the economic system they detest, the one that creates all of the wealth they feed off for the government largesse they need to expand their power.

As the WSJ notes, once this tax is created don't think the dumbass dim-retards will stop at 1%. And they are chock-full of other bad ideas that would throw all kinds of monkey wrenches into the US economy. I've heard talk of a tax on all stock and/or transactions. Just think what that would do for the liquidity of our financial markets!

(I realize this topic is way beyond the ken of the OP, but perhaps other posters would care to weigh in.)

I agree that buybacks are often the go-to move for CEOs who are out of ideas but believe that in many cases, "no ideas" are a damned sight better than bad ideas -- especially ones that are not only ill-considered, but load up the company's balance sheet with a trainload of debt!

A few of AT&T's misadventures over the last 7-8 years, for one very large example. (Would have been a lot better to have just done a few mega-buybacks!) Additionally, CEOs have sometimes been guilty of terrible timing and bought shares at or near market peaks.

But if a company wants to buy some of its own stock, what fucking business should that be of the feds?

And, like you said, once the excise tax on buybacks is enacted, future demagogic politicians might start ratcheting up the rate, especially since this idea is relatively easy to sell as a tax hike on the "rich."

As you also said, transaction taxes could very well be next in the hit parade.

When progressive demagogues start brainstorming, there's no telling what sorts of capital formation-impeding and growth-impeding ideas they'll dream up next!

[Tiny]

I'd prefer dividends to stock buybacks, if they were equally tax efficient. But they're not in the USA.

Anything like this tax that gives management an excuse to hang onto money that they can't wisely reinvest in their business is bad. Admittedly the 1% tax shouldn't make much of a difference. But then we started out with an effective income tax rate of 1% levied on less than 1% of the population after the 16th Amendment was passed. And look at where we are now.

[Texas Contrarian]

Not to worry -- these people are good at finding ways to weasel out of their own phony promises and disingenuousness.

Washington bureaucracy to the rescue! LOL

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...china-00050145

And, of course, you can always count on carefully selected crony capitalists, campaign contributors, and rent-seekers to fill in the blanks!

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by Texas Contrarian

Not to worry -- these people are good at finding ways to weasel out of their own phony promises and disingenuousness.

Washington bureaucracy to the rescue! LOL

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/0...china-00050145

previously in the "build back better" bill that manchin didnt go along with

the subsidies for electric vehicles only applied to those built with union labor

which was a dimocrat attack on elon musk as tesla isnt unionized and for which elon twittered at biden, not to mention that it was a payoff to and a boon for dimocrat minions

is that still the case with this bill as well?

of course a subsidy on electric vehicles is a subsidy to the "rich"

[1blackman1]

Electric vehicles are only for rich people. Lol. Yeah right.

What are you comparing them to as poor peoples vehicles? Or even middle class peoples vehicles.

[Texas Contrarian]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

of course a subsidy on electric vehicles is a subsidy to the "rich"

My understanding is that more than 80% of Teslas are purchased by households in the top 10% of the income distribution, and that a large portion of those sales are to $250K+ earners. Cars like the Nissan Leaf, although less expensive, still cost 20-30% more than a similarly appointed and powered gasoline car, and are in very short supply to boot.

Peter Suderman of the Reason Foundation has a good new article on the extent to which giveaways flow primarily to the non-poor:

https://reason.com/2022/08/06/biden-...m_medium=email

To an increasing extent, Democrats are becoming the party of urban and suburban high-income professionals; not the working class. (No wonder Ron Klain's approval rating has dropped well below 40%!)

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

previously in the "build back better" bill that manchin didnt go along with

the subsidies for electric vehicles only applied to those built with union labor

which was a dimocrat attack on elon musk as tesla isnt unionized and for which elon twittered at biden, not to mention that it was a payoff to and a boon for dimocrat minions

is that still the case with this bill as well?

of course a subsidy on electric vehicles is a subsidy to the "rich"

7500...direct to the consumer instead of off your taxes. I think it is a max 150k income to qualify.

70 or 80k cap on car price.


Definitely not subsidies to the wealthy or rich.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Admittedly the 1% tax shouldn't make much of a difference. But then we started out with an effective income tax rate of 1% levied on less than 1% of the population after the 16th Amendment was passed. And look at where we are now.

That is similar to my argument on DeSantis offset

[nevergaveitathought]

Originally Posted by WTF

7500...direct to the consumer instead of off your taxes. I think it is a max 150k income to qualify.

70 or 80k cap on car price.


Definitely not subsidies to the wealthy or rich.

ahh so it is a subsidy to the rich

and does it still only apply to union built evs?

another dimocrat constituency..the union hierarchy i mean

[WTF]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

ahh so it is a subsidy to the rich

and does it still only apply to union built evs?

another dimocrat constituency..the union hierarchy i mean

Yes Democrats champion workers and Republicans champion business.

Are just now aware of this....Shirley you jest.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

ahh so it is a subsidy to the rich

and does it still only apply to union built evs?

another dimocrat constituency..the union hierarchy i mean

Originally Posted by WTF

Yes Democrats champion workers and Republicans champion business.

Are just now aware of this....Shirley you jest.

They didn't get it through because of Manchin, but the Democrats sure as hell tried to screw nonunionized Tesla workers in Texas. Biden, Schumer et al were going to restrict the tax credits to autos manufactured with unionized workers.

These EV tax credits benefit the suburban upper middle class with college degrees who want to buy green vehicles, and who value feelings of moral superiority over reality. That is, progressives.

They THINK they're doing good things for the environment. But are they? Volvo estimates 68,000 miles is the point at which their electric vehicle will produce less carbon emissions than an internal combustion engine. That's assuming you don't have to replace the batteries before then. Electric vehicles when they roll off the assembly line have a much larger carbon footprint than internal combustion vehicles, because of the lithium and nickel processing and mining and the like.

Come on WTF, stand up for Texas and for the Working Man. And rational decisions about the environment and the future of America's oil and gas industry.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Tiny

They didn't get it through because of Manchin, but the Democrats sure as hell tried to screw nonunionized Tesla workers in Texas. Biden, Schumer et al were going to restrict the tax credits to autos manufactured with unionized workers.

These EV tax credits benefit the suburban upper middle class with college degrees who want to buy green vehicles, and who value feelings of moral superiority over reality. That is, progressives.

Come on WTF, stand up for Texas and for the Working Man.

Ok...you're griping about something that they did not get through!

They didn't get it through is the point, right?

So you want me to protest something that didn't happen?

Did you have lustylad read the bill to see if the Feds gave DeSantis more "offseting" Inflation money?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by WTF

Ok...you're griping about something that they did not get through!

They didn't get it through is the point, right?

So you want me to protest something that didn't happen?

Did you have lustylad read the bill to see if the Feds gave DeSantis more "offseting" Inflation money?

I edited my post. Did the part about "the future of the American oil and gas industry" change your mind? That includes midstream.

[nevergaveitathought]

no as usual you misstate the facts of the discussion

the gripe is you reflexively took the dimocrat side with a great amount of spin on your part, when they were in the wrong

and the fact it wasnt in the final bill has not one thing to do with tiny's chastisement of you

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by nevergaveitathought

no as usual you misstate the facts of the discussion

the gripe is you reflexively took the dimocrat side with a great amount of spin on your part, when they were in the wrong

and the fact it wasnt in the final bill has not one thing to do with tiny's chastisement of you

Nevergaveitahthought, maybe we should cut him a break. He's not well. Remember that WTF owns shares in oil and gas midstream companies. I think he said that's something like 70% of his net worth. It's obvious what the Democratic Party, without Manchin, would do to the oil and gas industry. And it's obvious that WTF suffers from Stockholm Syndrome. Stockholm Syndrome is a pernicious disease. Look what it did to Patty Hearst.