babbits killer identified

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

Not trying to prove who's right or wrong but...
In my CHL class I believe most if not all parts of the shooting qualification was done with two hands. The instructor was active police with 20 year experience.

However the officer said that the reality was the shooting test was mostly unnecessary. "I don't want you shooting someone who is running 20 feet away. What's the most likely scenario is you will need to pull your gun out and shoot it in one motion with one hand. (Demo'd) The target will be 3 feet away." He also said to empty out all the bullets in the gun until you sure the threat is dead. That way you are the only witness. (seriously)

The CHL is MINIMUM training and it is ridiculous to "assume" that CHL class guidelines is representative of handgun training in the state for which it was designed and written and equally ignorant to ASSUME that because CHL is "two-handed" qualification that there is no single-handed (weak and strong hands) in the the COUNTRY. Remarkably ignorant.

BTW: The length of service in LE is not determinative of the quality or manner of shooting for the purposes of personal defense in the customary close quarters confrontation in crowded conditions. 90% of the two-handed pics I've seen have the weapon raised close to eye level. That's paper target shooting practice. Tactical, instinctive shooting is trained one-handed and firing from the waist level. The instinctive firing direction is muscle training ... athletes do the same.

This ain't TV. It's unfortunate that's where some of this internet shit is sourced.

The target will be 3 feet away.

...

... maybe 5 to 10. At "3 feet" you may have to eat your pistol. If this guy had "20 years" of experience he should know better ... 3 feet is well within "the danger zone" for personal safety and weapon retention. Put a yard stick on the floor and see! You can reach 3 feet. And some of these fools will get a knife in their gut trying to pull their weapon, place the weak hand on it, and raise it .... err... "3 feet" from their body .... that's reality.

BTW: The above is my beef about CHL training. Basic peace officer guidelines show about 120 hours minimum of basic training fitting CHL guideline topics. DPS for new hires (which includes officers with prior experience) has about 1600 hours and at least a year of field training. DPS also has follow up training regularly using handguns and shoulder weapons.

[LexusLover]

Gnad....my comments are not directed at you. You probably can shoot one-handed.

[Jackie S]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

The CHL is MINIMUM training and it is ridiculous to "assume" that CHL class guidelines is representative of handgun training in the state for which it was designed and written and equally ignorant to ASSUME that because CHL is "two-handed" qualification that there is no single-handed (weak and strong hands) in the the COUNTRY. Remarkably ignorant.

BTW: The length of service in LE is not determinative of the quality or manner of shooting for the purposes of personal defense in the customary close quarters confrontation in crowded conditions. 90% of the two-handed pics I've seen have the weapon raised close to eye level. That's paper target shooting practice. Tactical, instinctive shooting is trained one-handed and firing from the waist level. The instinctive firing direction is muscle training ... athletes do the same.

This ain't TV. It's unfortunate that's where some of this internet shit is sourced.

...

... maybe 5 to 10. At "3 feet" you may have to eat your pistol. If this guy had "20 years" of experience he should know better ... 3 feet is well within "the danger zone" for personal safety and weapon retention. Put a yard stick on the floor and see! You can reach 3 feet. And some of these fools will get a knife in their gut trying to pull their weapon, place the weak hand on it, and raise it .... err... "3 feet" from their body .... that's reality.

BTW: The above is my beef about CHL training. Basic peace officer guidelines show about 120 hours minimum of basic training fitting CHL guideline topics. DPS for new hires (which includes officers with prior experience) has about 1600 hours and at least a year of field training. DPS also has follow up training regularly using handguns and shoulder weapons.

Anybody who has a CHL knows how ridiculously simple the shooting portion is. I honestly believe you could point a blind person in the direction of that man sized target and he could get enough hits to pass it.

The average person can’t hit anything with a handgun past 15 feet. Most people think it’s like on TV, you just whip it out and the case is closed.

I go to a local indoor pistol range in South Houston on occasion, and my observations lead me to believe that 90 percent of the civilian public have no idea how to shoot a handgun under a stressful situation.

I can shoot a handgun quite well. But beside my bed stands a Mossberg 12 gage pump.

[oeb11]

JS - Good post. sir!

[pfunkdenver]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

I can shoot a handgun quite well. But beside my bed stands a Mossberg 12 gage pump.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

Anybody who has a CHL knows how ridiculously simple the shooting portion is.

Actually, you are somewhat incorrect ...

... with respect to the "Anybody" part. On this board I have seen posters profess possession of a CHL to support his/her expertise.

I found the final day of "discussion" on the Texas Senate floor regarding the first legislation codifying CHL entertaining to say the least and it was enhanced by the conversation of the two District Attorneys (not assistants ... THE DAs) standing with me listening and speculating .... one was from a rural area and the other was from a larger metro area. Based on their comments ... one couldn't tell which was which.

The floor comments rivaled that of the discussion to change to "daylight savings" ... during which a representative from West Texas complained that making the day longer would cause the destruction of crops due to an increase of sunlight during those "longer days"! That reminds me of "global warming"!

[bambino]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Actually, you are somewhat incorrect ...

... with respect to the "Anybody" part. On this board I have seen posters profess possession of a CHL to support his/her expertise.

I found the final day of "discussion" on the Texas Senate floor regarding the first legislation codifying CHL entertaining to say the least and it was enhanced by the conversation of the two District Attorneys (not assistants ... THE DAs) standing with me listening and speculating .... one was from a rural area and the other was from a larger metro area. Based on their comments ... one couldn't tell which was which.

The floor comments rivaled that of the discussion to change to "daylight savings" ... during which a representative from West Texas complained that making the day longer would cause the destruction of crops due to an increase of sunlight during those "longer days"! That reminds me of "global warming"!

Do you still think the media sets the betting odds? I’ll bet Jacuzzme can handle any type of FIREARM better than you. Just give it up.

[oeb11]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Actually, you are somewhat incorrect ...

... with respect to the "Anybody" part. On this board I have seen posters profess possession of a CHL to support his/her expertise.

I found the final day of "discussion" on the Texas Senate floor regarding the first legislation codifying CHL entertaining to say the least and it was enhanced by the conversation of the two District Attorneys (not assistants ... THE DAs) standing with me listening and speculating .... one was from a rural area and the other was from a larger metro area. Based on their comments ... one couldn't tell which was which.

The floor comments rivaled that of the discussion to change to "daylight savings" ... during which a representative from West Texas complained that making the day longer would cause the destruction of crops due to an increase of sunlight during those "longer days"! That reminds me of "global warming"!

LL - I do have a CHL - not that it gives me any 'expertise' - but IMHO the 'shooting test" at a paper target for CHL qualification - is at short range and not hard to pass. I agree with JS statement.



Frankly - I fail to understand the point of your post.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by oeb11

LL - I do have a CHL - not that it gives me any 'expertise' - but IMHO the 'shooting test" at a paper target for CHL qualification - is at short range and not hard to pass. I agree with JS statement.



Frankly - I fail to understand the point of your post.

Nobody does.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by bambino

Do you still think the media sets the betting odds? I’ll bet Jacuzzme can handle any type of FIREARM better than you. Just give it up.

Give up what? He needs to "handle" firearms ... two-handed.

I'm really not concerned about your opinion. You don't even know me!

I do recall a fact ... FACT ... when the chatrooms cranked up in the late 90's statistically there were more "commercial airline pilots in the chatrooms than the FAA had issued licenses.

There are also some regulars on Eccie who think if one doesn't post reviews he doesn't get any pussy and doesn't know anything about it.

So, tell me again why I should be concerned about your opinion.

Oh...I give it up when I decide to give it up! "Dive Bar"? Let me guess!

The little fake expert on civilian firearm training showed his!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by oeb11

LL - I do have a CHL - not that it gives me any 'expertise' - but IMHO the 'shooting test" at a paper target for CHL qualification - is at short range and not hard to pass. I agree with JS statement.



Frankly - I fail to understand the point of your post.

I'm sorry for the reading comprehension issues. BTW ... I'm familiar with the CHL course in Texas .... I have had to supplement the use of force and offense provisions in it and prepare overheads for instructors. We collectively scrubbed the anecdotal "war stories" and concentrated on skills improvement.

My oversight philosophy was, and still is, minimize the response time in order to maximize the thinking time. The CHL course structure is minimal and remained that way for marketing.

At least in the Houston metro (multiple counties) there are just a handful of indoor ranges that can handle tactical, close range firing in a shoot/don't shoot decision making course. There are several reasons for that, but one is environmental regulations via OSHA and EPA. The FBI discovered that years ago after they built a range up on Montgomery County for a ton of money, but couldn't open it for use until they made it environmentally friendly for those instructors regularly on the range and the Federal LE employees utilizing it.

This extended thread wandered away from the initial point/purpose, because someone shot off his mouth by criticizing someone holding a firearm with one hand while he clutched a box in the other .......... but he wanted to make sure everyone knew he is an expert on handling firearms "properly"!

[Jacuzzme]

Oh man, I take a mini vaca, come back to pages of blather and not even an attempt to address any of the BS.

A) where did I say “gun” in the manner you decided to deride?
B) When did I mention waivers in any manner whatsoever, and why post that “even PA disagrees” with something I never said?
C) Is the link I posted to police certification/re-certification incorrect, or are you?
D) Where did I claim to be an expert on all things firearm training?
(Frankly, the only civilian class I’ve aver attend was with my daughter. I wanted her to take a course (Anthony Arms) with a professional instructor before she moved to Arizona with the Lady Smith 38 I got her)

It’s way past time to put up or shut up, but I don’t expect you’ll do so.

Edit: As to the original purpose of this thread, the shooter’s an asshat. So are the other guys in the room, as far as I can tell from the pic. What could possibly be so important in the box that he’s holding that you’d not drop it to give yourself maximum control and accuracy of your weapon in a crowded, chaotic room? If it didn’t contain something REALLY important, he’s dumb as a brick.

[royamcr]

Originally Posted by oeb11

1b1 - is it typical of teh Fascist DPST party to execute political opponents without a fair trial by a jury of Peers???


is it typical of teh Fascist DPST party to excuse the nightly violence in Porltand and other cities in the name of socialist tyranny?


is it typical of Fascist DPST party to reserve weapons only for themselves - to control the 75 million caucasians in AOC re-education camps?


Please consider your post, and what it means to Equality for all Under the law!

Just like in Russia eh Igor?

[royamcr]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Oh man, I take a mini vaca, come back to pages of blather and not even an attempt to address any of the BS.

A) where did I say “gun” in the manner you decided to deride?
B) When did I mention waivers in any manner whatsoever, and why post that “even PA disagrees” with something I never said?
C) Is the link I posted to police certification/re-certification incorrect, or are you?
D) Where did I claim to be an expert on all things firearm training?
(Frankly, the only civilian class I’ve aver attend was with my daughter. I wanted her to take a course (Anthony Arms) with a professional instructor before she moved to Arizona with the Lady Smith 38 I got her)

It’s way past time to put up or shut up, but I don’t expect you’ll do so.

Edit: As to the original purpose of this thread, the shooter’s an asshat. So are the other guys in the room, as far as I can tell from the pic. What could possibly be so important in the box that he’s holding that you’d not drop it to give yourself maximum control and accuracy of your weapon in a crowded, chaotic room? If it didn’t contain something REALLY important, he’s dumb as a brick.

It was Hillary's emails.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

What could possibly be so important in the box that he’s holding that you’d not drop it to give yourself maximum control and accuracy of your weapon in a crowded, chaotic room?

Training to draw your weapon with one hand. It's elementary,

But since you've never had any "civilian" training you wouldn't know!

Sometimes it takes too long to prove someone is lying, like you.

You are the one who began this bullshit by lying.