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BigLouie · 02-20-2016, 11:34 AM

What is so fucking funny is that someone with the FBI got the phone, accessed it, changed the pass code and promptly forgot it. That's the real problem.

nwarounder · 02-20-2016, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

It's real simple. Two special agents appear at Apple's pre-designated lab with the Iphone in question with a court order and the owner's waiver, and stand their in the lab with video and audio recording the chain of custody events while the technician(s) hook up the phone to a computer containing the proprietary software and the software downloads and unscrambles the file or files in the phone that are desired by the FBI and hands the "English" to them on a disk or flash drive with an accompanying affidavit affirming/swearing to the validity and accuracy of the "translation," and the two agents depart with the Iphone, their copy of the information (the only one is ok .. keeping in mind ala HillariousNoMore than there is unscrambled data on the Apple computer (which can be scrubbed while the agents remain there to observe and confirm) ...., and the paper work confirming the chain of custody, extraction, translation, and authenticity of the "English."

Now explain how ...

"...Criminals, terrorists, the Chinese, NSA, exwife's lawyer, ..." are going to get the "unscrambling software"? It NEVER leaves the Apple lab computer!

That is what should have been ordered by the court, and no one at Apple would oppose that. To my understanding, the feds are demanding they develop software that will allow the government to do it at will in the future. Well, at the will of a "secret judge" in a "secret court". I hope they refuse.

gladius82 · 02-20-2016, 12:04 PM

I think the FBI should give the phone to Apple, let them open it and give it back. The owner is dead, so no privacy should be expected...The algorithms for getting into the phone are still safe with Apple...and the FBI gets more info on the network of people that helped kill Americans.
A lot of people don't realize that you already have much less privacy than you think.....your banking records are NOT owned by you is one example. The IRS can garnish your wages by simply sending a letter to your employer, no court order is needed...In fact the NSA probably can unlock the phone and is doing this as a "disinformation" campaign so the terrorists will rush to use Apple I-phones.

LexusLover · 02-20-2016, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigLouie

What is so fucking funny is that someone with the FBI got the phone, accessed it, changed the pass code and promptly forgot it. That's the real problem.

They can "get" the pass code.

CuteOldGuy · 02-20-2016, 09:09 PM

It's my phone. I'll store what I want on it. If the government wants to see it, they can get a warrant. The 4th Amendment says they have to have probable cause to get a warrant. The 5th Amendment says I don't have to help them open my phone. The 13th Amendment says they cannot force a third party to open it. What is it about freedom that you don't understand, LL?

Jackie S · 02-20-2016, 11:58 PM

Has anyone established whether Apple can actually unlock the phone? The Internet is divided right down the middle on that question.

I am writing this on my I-Pad. I have to unlock it every time I use it with a 4 number pass code. I find it difficult to believe that The NSA or Apple couldn't figure it out.

gnadfly · 02-21-2016, 09:55 AM

I don't believe its the passcode but the contents have been encrypted...but I don't really know. There probably isn't a "ticking time bomb" but "we" don't know. The Feds likely can get any information off cell phone records or other sources but "we" don't know.

Apple may even have better, more secure protocols on the shelf, "we" don't know.

The point is the govt needs to do it job BEFORE the Islamic militants come over to our shores.

i'va biggen · 02-21-2016, 02:34 PM

Looks like the FBI screwed the pooch.

http://www.businessinsider.com/fbi-c...d-reset-2016-2

Guest042616-1 · 02-22-2016, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gladius82

I think the FBI should give the phone to Apple, let them open it and give it back. The owner is dead, so no privacy should be expected...The algorithms for getting into the phone are still safe with Apple...and the FBI gets more info on the network of people that helped kill Americans.

This doesn't change the fact that the government is compelling apple to create software that undermines their encryption. The reality is that there is no guarantee that they can keep this underwraps: that type of technology is so valuable to so many people (criminals, foreign governments, etc) that the incentive to get it would be so high that it is likely that someone would find a way (ie simply paying someone off for it). This would make us all, who are smart enough to use the encryption, less safe. They argue that they are doing this for our own safety, but the reality is that it will almost certainly make us less safe.

Quote:

A lot of people don't realize that you already have much less privacy than you think.....your banking records are NOT owned by you is one example. The IRS can garnish your wages by simply sending a letter to your employer, no court order is needed...In fact the NSA probably can unlock the phone and is doing this as a "disinformation" campaign so the terrorists will rush to use Apple I-phones.

Just because we don't have privacy elsewhere does not justify further eroding it. I'm not arguing whether or not they can legally do this: what I am arguing is that doing so doesn't protect us, it hurts us.

DSK · 02-22-2016, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eatfibo

This doesn't change the fact that the government is compelling apple to create software that undermines their encryption. The reality is that there is no guarantee that they can keep this underwraps: that type of technology is so valuable to so many people (criminals, foreign governments, etc) that the incentive to get it would be so high that it is likely that someone would find a way (ie simply paying someone off for it). This would make us all, who are smart enough to use the encryption, less safe. They argue that they are doing this for our own safety, but the reality is that it will almost certainly make us less safe.

Just because we don't have privacy elsewhere does not justify further eroding it. I'm not arguing whether or not they can legally do this: what I am arguing is that doing so doesn't protect us, it hurts us.

I think you are right on this point. Ironically, StormFront agrees with you, also.

StormFront sucks, for the record.

Guest042616-1 · 02-22-2016, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSK

I think you are right on this point. Ironically, StormFront agrees with you, also.

StormFront sucks, for the record.

I'm not sure why this would be ironic. Just because I disagree with their central tenant doesn't mean I have to disagree with them on everything.

LexusLover · 02-22-2016, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

What is it about freedom that you don't understand, LL?

Not much, if any of "it"!

Don't you wish someone would have had a cell phone to examine?

Guest042616-1 · 02-22-2016, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Not much, if any of "it"!

Don't you wish someone would have had a cell phone to examine?

Absolutely. Unless getting that cell phone required the state violated everyone's rights, or making us less safe by undercutting encryption.

CuteOldGuy · 02-22-2016, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Not much, if any of "it"!

Don't you wish someone would have had a cell phone to examine?

You mean the Saudi attack on the US? And, no. I'm not willing to lose freedom for the sake of security. You can live in fear if you want. Don't drag me into your totalitarian hellhole.

LexusLover · 02-23-2016, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Don't you wish someone would have had a cell phone to examine?

Quote:

Originally Posted by eatfibo

Absolutely. Unless getting that cell phone required the state violated everyone's rights, or making us less safe by undercutting encryption.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I'm not willing to lose freedom for the sake of security. You can live in fear if you want. Don't drag me into your totalitarian hellhole.

The people buried within that rubble are not "free" and I didn't drag anyone into THAT "totalitarian hellhole"!

Besides you are the ones who are "living in fear"! Fear of government.

But once you two fear mongers explain how Apple unscrambling encrypted information on the terrorist's phone causes you to "lose freedom" then I'll consider your "the sky is falling in" logic.

What information do you two fear mongers put on your phones that you don't want the government to know to which the government doesn't already have access either before it got on your phone or when you retrieve it?

You all must be hell to drive around when you are heading down the GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED FREEWAY .... geeezzzz .... you actually have to stay in the lanes painted by the GOVERNMENT and obey the GOVERNMENT POSTED SPEED LIMIT SIGNS or get pulled over by A GOVERNMENT OFFICER DRIVING A GOVERNMENT VEHICLE!

What a nightmare for you guys. GOVERNMENT TRAFFIC REGULATION!

Oh, yea! Have you ever been around a "Stingray" tower?

And you're frightened of Apple unscrambling its own encryption?

Booooooooo!