Building 7 Discussion Continued Here

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...h_n_82810.html

First couple of paragraphs:

An investigative journalism group has actually quantified the extent of the Bush administration's dishonesty. And the results are staggering, if not embarrassing.

Eight members of the Bush administration, including the President himself, made 935 false statements regarding Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction, or links to Al Qaeda, according to a new study by the Center for Public Integrity. These statements took place on 532 separate occasions over a two-year period prior to the March 18, 2003 invasion of Iraq.

That 'study' was bought and paid for by George Soros (check their donors list), and you know how much Soros liked 'W'.

[Guest050715-1]

Regardless of who paid for it he lied. They all lied. There never were WMD's. I knew it 11 years ago before the war to end all wars started.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

Regardless of who paid for it he lied. They all lied. There never were WMD's. I knew it 11 years ago before the war to end all wars started.

Troops that deployed to Iraq underwent enhanced MOPP training to insure their readiness lest Saddam employ WMD against U.S. forces. So real was the concern regarding WMD, U.S. personnel remained in MOPP 1 throughout the invasion. There was fear the NBC detection equipment might fail, so caged pigeons (like miners' canaries) accompanied the troops into action. German and U.S. decontamination units (some newly created for the operation) were deployed to be on-hand should WMD be encountered. Special PAD (Public Affairs Detachments) were deployed to document the discovery of Saddam's WMD. Bush was hoping to score a political coup by publically exhibiting the confiscated WMD; this action, in and of itself, should confirm in any doubter’s mind that Bush actually believed Saddam had WMD.

Furthermore, Bush wasn’t alone in believing Saddam had WMD. Saddam's own generals – and every neighboring country in the region – believed Saddam had WMD! ‘Slick Willie’ also believed Saddam had WMD, and ‘Slick Willie’ initiated his own war – “Operation Desert Fox” – against Saddam.

During Operation Desert Fox, December 16 thru 19, 1998, Clinton approved 600 bomber sorties and the launch of over 400 Cruise missiles over a four day period to disrupt Saddam's weapons program. Operation Desert Fox was a $1 billion dollar operation involving nearly 30,000 U.S. military personnel. Yet, there remain those who simplistically claim: “Bush lied.” But the evidence to the contrary reveals something quite different.

The evidence – the available intelligence at the time – indicated one of two possibilities: 1) nothing was going on, or 2) Sadam was really good at hiding what was going on. Subsequently, the WMD Commission and the Butler report both indicated that the intelligence community was correct in suggesting that Saddam was probably seeking to re-arm his military forces with WMD. That conclusion was, in part, based on these known facts: 1) Saddam had had WMD in the past. 2) Saddam had strong incentives to reconstitute his arsenal. 3) He had the money to refinance such a reconstitution. 4) He had trained, competent technicians who could reconstitute his stockpile of WMDs. 5) He had the necessary materiel on hand to proceed with such a reconstitution. 6) He repeatedly stalled and deceived the inspectors—which begged the question—“What is he hiding?”

While it might be comforting to some to continue to believe that the evidence supported a conclusion different than that reached by the intelligence community—and that accepted by the Bush administration—the facts do not support that contention.

[Guest050715-1]

The training given to the troops was ordered by the president. The same president that told a bunch of lies to get us all fired up about invading a peaceful nation. If you want to believe Bush didn't lie, then believe it.

[dearhunter]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The training given to the troops was ordered by the president. The same president that told a bunch of lies to get us all fired up about invading a peaceful nation. If you want to believe Bush didn't lie, then believe it.

did you just write that.....you sheep crack me up.......too funny.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

The training given to the troops was ordered by the president. The same president that told a bunch of lies to get us all fired up about invading a peaceful nation. If you want to believe Bush didn't lie, then believe it.

It's not a matter of 'belief'. It's documented and supported by the facts.

'Slick Willie' 'believed' Saddam had WMD; hence, his $1 billion-war against Saddam in 1998. So how do you explain away Operation Desert Fox since Bush wasn't involved? How can you justify Clinton's actions then declaim Bush's actions? Both were based on the same intelligence sources. Both presidents came to the same conclusion: Saddam had WMD. Explain that fact away.

Furthermore, during debriefing Saddam's generals reported to interrogators they believed Saddam had WMD. Explain that fact (multiple facts) away.

Iraq's neighbors believed Saddam had WMD. They demanded protection from the U.S. lest Saddam launch WMD against them. Most of those countries would not participate actively or overtly in the war for fear Saddam would use that as an excuse to launch WMD against them. Explain that fact (multiple facts) away.

Bush actively planned to capitalize politically on discovering the WMD caches. Explain that fact away.

You've already out-of-hand dismissed the enhanced MOPP posture embraced by the invading U.S. forces and the creation and use of additional decontamination units for the operation; despite Rumsfeld's demand for a small in-country footprint. But you are wrong for doing so because that was completely counter to Rumsfeld's doctrine, but it is an indicator that Bush, et al., believed it was a necessary precaution based on the assessment that Saddam had WMD.

No, it's not a matter of 'belief'. It's documented and supported by the facts.

[Guest050715-1]

Originally Posted by dearhunter

did you just write that.....you sheep crack me up.......too funny.

Peaceful to us in that they had not attacked us nor did they have the ability to do so. Did Sadam and his twisted sons and regime deserve to crater? Yes. I'm just not willing to pay for it, and I'm certainly not wiling to shit-can the economy to do so.

IB, you know facts are subjective. I believe W lied. I also believe the facts support that. You do not. I will agree to disagree.

[I B Hankering]

Two presidents launched attacks against the same country for the very same reason; yet many maintain that only one of those presidents 'lied'. That is a bias; not an understanding based on facts.

[dearhunter]

OH, your answer is why I choose not to engage most of you tards in a discussion.....the best part is that you probably really thinck you make sense......ijs.

[CuteOldGuy]

Saddam was our ally for awhile, remember? We helped him bring the war with Iran to a stalemate. (And we wonder why Iran doesn't like us, and won't do what we say.) Everyone knew Saddam was a buffoon, and was more interested in sex in questionable circumstances than terrorism. Then there was the previously accurately described oil situation. WMD's were never part of the real picture, they were a ruse to get people behind the war.

[Whirlaway]

This discussion is meaningless withhout you telling us your definition of "lie/liar" .....

Does it invovle "intent" or "intentionally" ?

If not, every weatherman across the US is a liar by your weak definition. If yes, then what proof do you have that Bush knowingly made false statements intentionally?

Originally Posted by OliviaHoward

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...h_n_82810.html

First couple of paragraphs:

An investigative journalism group has actually quantified the extent of the Bush administration's dishonesty. And the results are staggering, if not embarrassing.

Eight members of the Bush administration, including the President himself, made 935 false statements regarding Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction, or links to Al Qaeda, according to a new study by the Center for Public Integrity. These statements took place on 532 separate occasions over a two-year period prior to the March 18, 2003 invasion of Iraq.

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Saddam was our ally for awhile, remember?

So were bin Laden, Tōjō, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Stalin, etc.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

We helped him bring the war with Iran to a stalemate. (And we wonder why Iran doesn't like us, and won't do what we say.) Everyone knew Saddam was a buffoon, and was more interested in sex in questionable circumstances than terrorism.

Saddam was a dangerous buffoon. Uday and Qusay were worse.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Then there was the previously accurately described oil situation. WMD's were never part of the real picture, they were a ruse to get people behind the war.

Oil has been a factor in international politics since the 19th century and will continue to be so into the foreseeable future. The belief that Saddam had WMD was not a ruse.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Whirlaway

This discussion is meaningless withhout you telling us your definition of "lie/liar" .....

Does it invovle "intent" or "intentionally" ?

If not, every weatherman across the US is a liar by your weak definition. If yes, then what proof do you have that Bush knowingly made false statements intentionally?

the images from space showing the trailers that were supposedly wmd haulers or labs or whatever, were taken in 1991 during Saudi ... FACT.

Shit-for-brains Bush AND Blair pawned them off as RECENT intel even though they knew full fucking well they werent.

intentional LIE with intent to invade.


One of more than a FEW lies.

[JD Barleycorn]

Olivia, please give it up. You are starting to sound like a loon. Some of us went to the Gulf war (yes, CJ/WTF my background is pertinent) and we recieved extensive training in chemical/biological warfare. That also involved a massive shipment of MOPP suits and gear to the units. The Germans provided some of the best detection gear in the world. There is massive evidence that someone BELIEVED that Hussein had WMDs and believed he would use them when his regime was at stake.

Olivia will you make a statement that Clinton lied (but didn't take action), Kerry lied (but did not support), Gore lied (but was distracted by a melting ice cube in his drink), Edwards lied (but was distracted by a blonde), the Mossad lied (professional habit), the CIA lied (once again, professionals), MI-5 lied (the British would never lie to us...), the Russians lied (&@#*&^). So Olivia let me hear you say that everyone lied or.........that everyone thought they were telling truth as they knew it.

[CJ7]

LIE .....The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him."
- G.W. Bush, 9/13/01

LIE ...."I want justice...There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said, 'Wanted: Dead or Alive,'"
- G.W. Bush, 9/17/01, UPI

Still telling lies .... Secondly, he is not escaping us. This is a guy, who, three months ago, was in control of a county [sic]. Now he's maybe in control of a cave. He's on the run. Listen, a while ago I said to the American people, our objective is more than bin Laden. But one of the things for certain is we're going to get him running and keep him running, and bring him to justice. And that's what's happening. He's on the run, if he's running at all. So we don't know whether he's in cave with the door shut, or a cave with the door open -- we just don't know...."
- Bush, in remarks in a Press Availablity with the Press Travel Pool,
The Prairie Chapel Ranch, Crawford TX, 12/28/01, as reported on official White House site

finally, the truth comes out

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02