If the Feds Won't Do It...

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

..."In general, has there been a study that reflects the true cost of illegal aliens, versus the true benefit of them, factoring in reduced expenses for the services they provide, and the societal costs they require society to incur?"...he deflects it down an asswipe non answering road.

I know of no such study guys. .

I do...and if I remember correctly it was about a wash.

The Federal Government comes out ahead , while local and state governments do not fare as well.


This one isn't the one I'm talking about but its a start.
http://washingtonindependent.com/551...gal-immigrants
The overall positive impact for U.S. households of legalizing these workers over ten years would be “1.27 percent of GDP or $180 billion.”
The findings are consistent with previous studies that show economic benefits from the legalization of illegal workers.



Here is another....my memory is bad. Looks like they are a net plus, even to the states.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/economy/illegal-immigration-provides-benefits-states-despite-rhetoric/
The most thorough study on the fiscal and economic impact of immigration was done by the non-partisan Texas Comptrollers’ Office in 2006, which showed Texas earned more in taxes and economic output from illegal immigrants than governments spent to provide services.
According to the Comptrollers’ office, state and local governments spent $1.16 billion to provide services like education, health care and safety, but raised an estimated $1.58 billion in tax revenues. Based on the data, the Texas taxpayer made a $424.7 million profit on its illegal immigrant population in 2006


“The Texas economy cannot adjust completely to the loss of this labor [through the removal of illegal immigrants] and retain its competitiveness,” the Comptrollers’ office said in its report.




Question....Do any of you buy goods made from overseas made from non Americans? If so your patriotic yell for our workers rings hallow.

[Marcus Aurelius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYKXquc2Q7w

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYKXquc2Q7w

Freeport is close to my old stomping ground.

My I suggest we trade Freeport for Cancun.

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by WTF

Question....Do any of you buy goods made from overseas made from non Americans? If so your patriotic yell for our workers rings hallow.

You asking Me this question?

I don't recall making some "patriotic yell" about workers? Remember, I'm the capitalist pig who is only about the money.

[Ansley]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Remember, I'm the capitalist pig who is only about the money.

Oh please, keep talking dirty.

[Marcus Aurelius]

The capitalists cause their own problems when the executives get multiple million dollar bonuses at the same time they extort the employees to take pay cuts.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by Ansley

Oh please, keep talking dirty.

Get a room you two

[Black Sedan]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

Do any of the rest of you get the same feeling that when you listen to TTH, your listening to your wife or ex-wife?

No not at all, he's usually well informed and clearly communicative. If my wife was anything like that, I'd still have one. LOL.

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

I know of no such study guys. It would be interesting to see. My personal belief is that they contribute more than they take...but I don't know. But the main reason I don't think there will ever be much of an answer for this is...Most politicians don't want to piss off the hispanic vote by requiring compliance with immigration laws, but those same politicians also don't want to piss off the labor vote by legalizing a cheap labor force that takes jobs, so that once legalized, we can enforce immigration. So, we just remain here in limboland.

I agree with the your assertion of the impact. Studies which look at some tax revenue broken down by immigration status suggest that it is true, even without the economic boost to GDP from lower labor costs included.

It is just as politically charged for a professor to get a grant for such a study.

[Ansley]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Get a room you two

[atlcomedy]

Listen folks - this issue makes for strange bedfellows and hypocrites of all of us to some extent....to deny that is to well...be in denial....

I'm a whore for a deal...I'll admit it...if I can get my house painted in the same quality fashion and save some coin, I don't care what the man's skin color is or papers say (so long as I'm appropriately insulated from any legal consequences).

On the other hand, I firmly believe you shouldn't reward someone for breaking the law to get into this country. If there was a serious clean up, I would support it and live with the higher prices.

If that was to happen, I shudder to think of what would happen to my grocery bill. Imagine the cost of food if it was actually picked by American citizens.

[Marcus Aurelius]

Skin color has nothing to do with it.

[atlcomedy]

Skin color has a lot to do with the legislation/situation in Arizona. One of the biggest objections to the legislation is it would lead to profiling -- brown-skinned U.S.-born Juan would be subject to some inconvenience because he looks like illegal Juan.

[69er]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

How the hell do you people come up with the notion that immigrants don't pay taxes? Texas governmental entities fund themselves on two principle sources of taxes -- sales taxes and property taxes. Immigrants pay the same sales taxes and the same property taxes that you do. To the penny.

As far as Federal taxation, they may not pay income tax is they have a cash job, but neither to millions of Americans who have cash jobs. And most make so little, that they would not make enough to be among the 53 percent who would owe income tax in any event. And substantial numbers of undocumented workers who obtain jobs with false documents do in fact pay Social Security taxes and other payroll taxes, but never get any benefits. They also pay Federal fuel taxes, Federal taxes on telephone services, etc.

Do you have any research or any logic that would suggest that immigrants don't pay taxes? The notion makes no sense of any kind.

TexTushHog...

Give us a break! I don't think that even you believe your argument. I give an example where some tax is not paid, and your argument is to say:

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

How the hell do you people come up with the notion that immigrants don't pay taxes?

I know, as do you, that some americans cheat, and don't pay their taxes. Yes, I do expect that are larger share of illegal immigrants do not pay their taxes, as they believe doing so poses a greater risk to them than not doing so.

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Do you have any research or any logic that would suggest that immigrants don't pay taxes? The notion makes no sense of any kind.

I think WTF's post had a decent start on exactly some such research in that area.

As far as WTF's comment:

Originally Posted by WTF

Question....Do any of you buy goods made from overseas made from non Americans? If so your patriotic yell for our workers rings hallow.

I challenge you to buy a television or laptop computer, made wholly here in the USA. To do so will require a very exhaustive search, and require a huge cash outlay. To say that those of us who profess to promote american workers, and by buying anything made overseas, is a "hollow" effort... is entertaining. I'm willing to promote american workers, not give them a free 21 day cruise to the caribbean. LOL

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

ATL and 69r, you all made the fatal flaw of using one of the words that allow them to deflect from the question, rather than address the conceptual question being asked. You know the words...no, all, always, never, etc. Instead of answering the question which was..."

Rudyard, I'll stick by my posting. There is not a, no, all, always, never, etc. I believe my posting is quite clear, as I carefully worded it for the exact reason you post. I believe a sizeable percentage do not attempt to pay the taxes they realize they owe.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Rudyard K

You asking Me this question?

I don't recall making some "patriotic yell" about workers? Remember, I'm the capitalist pig who is only about the money.

Don't go feeling all guilty on me now RK

Originally Posted by 69er

Has anyone ever seen a decent example of such a study? I'd be really interested in how this truly works out. My guess is that it might be pretty close. Even if it were a slightly net negative cost, I would be for it, just from the standpoint of supporting my fellow citizens.

Originally Posted by 69er

As far as WTF's comment:



I challenge you to buy a television or laptop computer, made wholly here in the USA. To do so will require a very exhaustive search, and require a huge cash outlay. To say that those of us who profess to promote american workers, and by buying anything made overseas, is a "hollow" effort... is entertaining. I'm willing to promote american workers, not give them a free 21 day cruise to the caribbean. LOL



.

So you have no problem with capital moving freely across borders but labor is another story

[Rudyard K]

Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius

The capitalists cause their own problems when the executives get multiple million dollar bonuses at the same time they extort the employees to take pay cuts.

cap·i·tal·ist
Function: noun
Date: 1781
a person who has capital especially invested in business

There is a difference between a capitalist and the executives of which you complain. They are not synonymous. My capital? Damn right, pays the bonuses to me. I don't extort anything. It's a volunteer system. I volunteer my capital...employees volunteer their time and energy. We both get paid.