Thoughts?

[Wakeup]

That was probably both a bit optomistic and a bit disingenuous of me.

[Sweet Discretion]

Did you really need an "experiment" to determine that people would perceive your statement to be racist? Did you actually think that anyone would perceive it any other way? Did you not realize that immigrants who arrive here via illegally crossing the rio grande have been ridiculed and degraded for decades? Were you not aware that providers are looked down upon in our society, not to mention cheap providers? Were you not aware that gardening is one of the lowest skilled, lowest paid jobs that exist?

You say you wanted to see how people were going to perceive the statement. I think you knew exactly how people were going to perceive it.

So then I can't help but wonder if you already knew what people were going to say,(and you had to have known) why did you bother to start the thread?

You knew damn well you were going to offend people and yet you deliberately went ahead and posted it. And then you try to go into some long, complicated, big-worded argument that you didn't say what you and everybody here knows you said. That we're all just "perceiving" it wrong.

Then I have to wonder, why on earth would anybody take so much time out of their day to discuss and argue about this ad nauseum? I'm left with so many questions, none of which relate to who's racist or not racist.

[One-Eyed Willy]

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

Recently, in response to a comment that Latina agency providers were cheaper priced than independents, I posted the following:

"A new one is crossing the river every day...that's why the rate is so low...for pussy AND garden work..."

What are your thoughts on my comment? Not looking for thoughts about the reason for the price difference, but rather specifically on my comment.I bet this derails almost immediately...it illustrates exactly what I said...

Thoughts? Posting stereotypical comments which 95% of the Houston area will find degrading to the Hispanic race and asking for thoughts and comments back from average Joes and Janes which then are to be manipulated in terms to favor the asking party, seems Sociopathic Its great to be educated and be "in the know," but to misguide knowing is to be misguided. Hope UR OK.

[Mojojo]

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Did you really need an "experiment" to determine that people would perceive your statement to be racist? Did you actually think that anyone would perceive it any other way? Did you not realize that immigrants who arrive here via illegally crossing the rio grande have been ridiculed and degraded for decades? Were you not aware that providers are looked down upon in our society, not to mention cheap providers? Were you not aware that gardening is one of the lowest skilled, lowest paid jobs that exist?

You say you wanted to see how people were going to perceive the statement. I think you knew exactly how people were going to perceive it.

So then I can't help but wonder if you already knew what people were going to say,(and you had to have known) why did you bother to start the thread?

You knew damn well you were going to offend people and yet you deliberately went ahead and posted it. And then you try to go into some long, complicated, big-worded argument that you didn't say what you and everybody here knows you said. That we're all just "perceiving" it wrong.

Then I have to wonder, why on earth would anybody take so much time out of their day to discuss and argue about this ad nauseum? I'm left with so many questions, none of which relate to who's racist or not racist.

Sweet Discretion being Latino myself I don't find his statement racist but just plain out stereotypical and not worth arguing over. This shit doesn't even phase me to be honest....

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Did you really need an "experiment" to determine that people would perceive your statement to be racist?

Of course not, the point of the thread wasn't to count how many people thought it was a racist comment, it was to get one person to say it was, and then explain to everyone how it wasn't.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Did you actually think that anyone would perceive it any other way?

I think your anger is getting the best of your common sense. Multiple people in this thread, of multiple different races, have interpreted the comment differently. Your statement has already been emperically disproved.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Did you not realize that immigrants who arrive here via illegally crossing the rio grande have been ridiculed and degraded for decades?

I realize that some people act this way. How does this apply? Again, the question isn't "are people who ridicule and denigrate immigrants who arrive here via illegally crossing the rio grande racist". It's an interesting question, but doesn't apply in the slightest. My statement didn't demean the act in any way, and I cannot be responsible for the preconceived notions that other people in society may or may not have concerning the act.

The fact is, you chose to be angry not because my comment demeaned Hispanics, but because you automatically assume that EVERYONE who makes a comment about Hispanics crossing the Rio Grande must be racist. Who has the problem here? Me, for making the comment, or you, for automatically assuming everyone who makes that comment is racist? My contention is that your attitude will cause more harm.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Were you not aware that providers are looked down upon in our society, not to mention cheap providers?

Again, just like above, you're taking the actions of a group and applying it to everyone. You're saying that since a group of people look down on providers, that everyone must be doing it, and you lash out accordingly.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Were you not aware that gardening is one of the lowest skilled, lowest paid jobs that exist?

Complete and utter horseshit...

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

You say you wanted to see how people were going to perceive the statement. I think you knew exactly how people were going to perceive it. So then I can't help but wonder if you already knew what people were going to say,(and you had to have known) why did you bother to start the thread?

True, I knew exactly how SOME PEOPLE would perceive it, and the point of this thread is aimed entirely at them. I've already explained why. I know the posts can be longwinded, but go back and read them.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

You knew damn well you were going to offend people and yet you deliberately went ahead and posted it. And then you try to go into some long, complicated, big-worded argument that you didn't say what you and everybody here knows you said. That we're all just "perceiving" it wrong.

And you're illustrating my point perfectly. How some people can take a statement, apply completely ulterior motives to it, simply because of their OWN biases and predujices, which have nothing to do with the statement itself. THIS is what's at the core of racial tension. THIS is what causes racial issues in America.

PAY ATTENTION ALL, THIS IS IMPORTANT:
Very rarely do you have people stand on the rooftops and yell "I'm a racist!" Unfortunately, in our hypersensitive, programmed by the media, parents, friends society, you have a lot of people standing on the rooftops yelling "He's a racist!" or "She's a racist!". The problem is they have no idea what that word means, yet as soon as someone utters it, a whole storm of issues is created. The problem isn't just with the racists, it's with the people who incorrectly perceive others to be racist, and it's them who cause more problems in our society.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Then I have to wonder, why on earth would anybody take so much time out of their day to discuss and argue about this ad nauseum?

Now that is an interesting question, and I'll answer it for you. I benefit several ways from this thread. I get to exercise my critical thinking skills. I get to exercise my research skills. I get to exercise my typing skills. I get to exercise my language skills. I get analyze arguments, anticipate arguments, formulate arguments, and plan strategy. Oh, and if even a single person reads through all this and says "maybe Wakeup is right" and changes how they view the world, then I believe it's worth every bit of my time.

[Wakeup]

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?p=872618#post872618

Willy, it's not the first time I've been called a sociopath. Got any other labels to apply to me?

I freely admit that I set up a scenario in which the outcome was predetermined and the responses could be shown as incorrect. As a soldier you always fight on ground of your choosing, and prepare it accordingly. It doesn't amaze me that the opponent still chooses to walk into the killing field...it amazes me that after they've been destroyed, some of them still defend the decision to walk into the field in the first place, and they do it again somewhere else...

[carkido45]

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?p=872618#post872618

Willy, it's not the first time I've been called a sociopath. Got any other labels to apply to me?

.

I DO! I DO! but I'll get banned but we all know your special and get away with most things other won't be allowed to get away with.

[Wakeup]

How so? Elucidate...

[Sweet Discretion]

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

I think your anger is getting the best of your common sense. Multiple people in this thread, of multiple different races, have interpreted the comment differently. Your statement has already been emperically disproved.

I think everyone perceived it the same way. Your statement degraded illegal immigrants by saying that they make good cheap hookers and cheap garderners. I can't say the statement isn't true, but just coming out and saying it the way you did, everybody including you knew that it would be perceived to be degrading to a certain group(race) of people.

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

I realize that some people act this way. How does this apply? Again, the question isn't "are people who ridicule and denigrate immigrants who arrive here via illegally crossing the rio grande racist". It's an interesting question, but doesn't apply in the slightest. My statement didn't demean the act in any way, and I cannot be responsible for the preconceived notions that other people in society may or may not have concerning the act.

Ok so if you were to say "illegal border crossers are arriving everyday to drive drunk on public roads and have unprotected sex" would that not be demeaning to illegal immigrants? Everyone knows that driving drunk is looked down upon and having unprotected sex is looked down upon for obvious reasons, just like cheap hookers and cheap manual labor are considered degrading professions.

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

The fact is, you chose to be angry not because my comment demeaned Hispanics, but because you automatically assume that EVERYONE who makes a comment about Hispanics crossing the Rio Grande must be racist. Who has the problem here? Me, for making the comment, or you, for automatically assuming everyone who makes that comment is racist? My contention is that your attitude will cause more harm.

I'm not sure why you think I'm angry. I never said you're racist, I merely pointed out that your statement is going to be perceived as being a racist statement and you knew it. You're trying to turn this into WAY more than what it is. I don't even know what "race" you even are. You could be latino for all I know.

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

Again, just like above, you're taking the actions of a group and applying it to everyone. You're saying that since a group of people look down on providers, that everyone must be doing it, and you lash out accordingly.

I said providers and cheap providers even moreso are looked down upon in our society. How can you argue with that? You yourself are very quick to remind a provider that she's just another hooker every chance you get. Am I right or am I just "perceiving" things the wrong way?

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

Complete and utter horseshit...

Illegal immigrants who work for landscaping and lawnmowing services only get paid maybe 5 or 6 bucks an hour. How can you say that's complete and utter horseshit?


Please believe that I was neither angered or offended by anything you said. I only question the deeper lying issues. Why would a grown man spend so much time arguing about something that isn't even arguable? None of your points hold any validity. Each time you're proven wrong you simply move the goal posts and accuse your opposition of "perceiving you wrong".

Were hitler, osama bid laden, david koresh, or wakeup all sick sociopaths or were they all "perceived incorrectly"? Gimme a break. And I'm getting sucked into your sick little trap by simply taking time to type this resopnse. Does that mean you win? I'll be waiting on your 6 page reply.

[Forrest Law]

Wakeup:


Goodness. You make me lawl. Exercise your critical thinking skills? Formulate formula?

Listen, you....

Get yo @$$ outta here. Look at me straight in the face and tell me that.



Your statements are just like you and your username: an oxymoron



I side with Sweet Discretion easily.



Terrible. Just terrible. You need to get kicked on the shins by me. Wake your @$$ up!

I'm literally seconds away from using the power of the internet and doing this to you:

[One-Eyed Willy]

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?p=872618#post872618

Willy, it's not the first time I've been called a sociopath. Got any other labels to apply to me?

I freely admit that I set up a scenario in which the outcome was predetermined and the responses could be shown as incorrect. As a soldier you always fight on ground of your choosing, and prepare it accordingly. It doesn't amaze me that the opponent still chooses to walk into the killing field...it amazes me that after they've been destroyed, some of them still defend the decision to walk into the field in the first place, and they do it again somewhere else...

Wakeup... I'm not labeling you at all. I don't know you. I'm just responding to the question. However, posting questions like this opens you up for a lot of critisizm. I guess you know that already. -just sayin

[Sarunga]

WU, you are prone to perceive others incorrectly....the same way others are prone to perceive you incorrectly. So, I hope you get something out of this "social experiment" too.

Let me give you one example:

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

Do you even realize how ludicrous you sound, wondering if I have professional qualifications that qualify me to carry out an experiment on a hooker board? First of all, you do realize that no one has to be "qualified" in any way to conduct an experiment right? Are children "qualified" to test the temperature of a burner before they put their hand on it for the first time? "Qualifications" (and I'm not going to debate the concept of that word) only come into play when evaluating the validity of any stated results.

Here, you are incorrectly assuming the purely literal meaning of "qualification" in my usage of the word.

If we go along with your usage of "qualification"....to answer your question, "Are children qualified to test the temperature of a burner before they put their hand on it for the first time?

They are....but they are not qualified to carry out "social experiments".

Now, if you really want to know where my "grand design".....as you put it....was leading you to....here's where:

Originally Posted by Wakeuр

I'm admittedly open to the concept that I have other qualities that I am not superior to others in.

Which BTW is good to know.

One final thing....not everybody is trying to "destroy" you all the time.

[Jack Flash]

Wakeup is a racist..

Just thought I'd throw that out there. hehe

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by Jack Flash

I'm not offended at all, but I didn't cross the river either.

Originally Posted by Yowzer

But I thought your original comments were kind of "tongue in cheek" and were not to be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by seedman55

Now to Wakeups ?, I didn't see anything wrong except being blunt honest.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

I think everyone perceived it the same way.

Ah, my fault. The addition of "I think" changes things. You can "think" people all took it the same way all day and still be wrong, but that's your choice I guess. Here are just some who took it differenty than you.

Originally Posted by Jack Flash

I'm not offended at all, but I didn't cross the river either.

Originally Posted by Yowzer

But I thought your original comments were kind of "tongue in cheek" and were not to be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by seedman55

Now to Wakeups ?, I didn't see anything wrong except being blunt honest.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Your statement degraded illegal immigrants by saying that they make good cheap hookers and cheap garderners.

If they make "good hookers" then how is that degrading, to us here, on a hooker board, where we enjoy "good" hookers? If illegal immigrants made good hookers I think that illegal immigrants would be seen as the most wanted group of people in the history of the world to people like Carkido, who love Latinas. Again, you're assuming several things. One, that all people here look down on illegal immigrants. Two, all that people here look down on hookers. Three, that all people here look down on gardeners. All three assumptions lead to problems.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

I can't say the statement isn't true, but just coming out and saying it the way you did, everybody including you knew that it would be perceived to be degrading to a certain group(race) of people.

Wow...now THAT is an interesting statement. So if something is true, we should avoid saying it because people might not like hearing it? I'm not sure I even want to reply to that, it would expose insecurities, bring up social embarassments, and would probably go offtrack quite fast.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Ok so if you were to say "illegal border crossers are arriving everyday to drive drunk on public roads and have unprotected sex" would that not be demeaning to illegal immigrants? Everyone knows that driving drunk is looked down upon and having unprotected sex is looked down upon for obvious reasons, just like cheap hookers and cheap manual labor are considered degrading professions.

Again, you're making assumptions by using words like "everyone". My answer to your question is no. Drunk driving isn't bad. Unprotected sex isn't bad. Cheap hookers aren't bad. Cheap manual labor isn't bad.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

I'm not sure why you think I'm angry. I never said you're racist, I merely pointed out that your statement is going to be perceived as being a racist statement and you knew it. You're trying to turn this into WAY more than what it is. I don't even know what "race" you even are. You could be latino for all I know.

If this was your point, then why the response? I already told you that was the purpose, and the responses were aimed at those people specifically.

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

I said providers and cheap providers even moreso are looked down upon in our society. How can you argue with that? You yourself are very quick to remind a provider that she's just another hooker every chance you get. Am I right or am I just "perceiving" things the wrong way?

I'm actually getting tired of saying this. One more time, just for you. Yes, there are people in our society who "look down" on hookers. I'm saying that there are other people (a bunch here I'd bet) who DON'T look down on hookers, and who are part of our society. So our society is not of homogenous opinion concerning hookers, so all of our society doesn't look down on hookers. Why would you assume that I'm looking down on hookers here...on a hooker board...where we all frequent hookers? Why would you assume that I'm automatically degrading them?

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Illegal immigrants who work for landscaping and lawnmowing services only get paid maybe 5 or 6 bucks an hour. How can you say that's complete and utter horseshit?

You said "lowest skilled"...

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Why would a grown man spend so much time arguing about something that isn't even arguable? None of your points hold any validity. Each time you're proven wrong you simply move the goal posts and accuse your opposition of "perceiving you wrong".

I'm beginning to think you're not even reading my posts. I've explained three times WHY I spend my time in this thread. I'm more interested in how I'm "moving the goalposts". Can you explain?

Originally Posted by Sweet Discretion

Were hitler, osama bid laden, david koresh, or wakeup all sick sociopaths or were they all "perceived incorrectly"?

VERY interesting question. Understand, I'm not a psychologist, so my opinion isn't professional, but I'd say that Hitler was a sociopath, Osama wasn't, and Koresh is borderline, and by "sick" I assume you mean "afflicted by" and not "horrible person". I'd also say that they were also perceived incorrectly, but that's a much different conversation as well.

[Wakeup]

Originally Posted by Forrest Law

Get yo @$$ outta here. Look at me straight in the face and tell me that.

I quit reading after that...sorry...

EDIT: I'm honestly hoping that the "Law" in your handle isn't to be taken literally...