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Lust4xxxLife · 09-01-2010, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by argus256

A lot of innocent people die because they are UNABLE to defend themselves and again, SECONDS count. Take Chicago for instance, and the RASH of gang activity and innocent shootings (by gang members and crooks) that have taken place there in recent weeks.... criminals don't give a F*CK about Mayor Daley's gun laws, and this only proves that. If people can defend themselves, crime WILL go down.

This is only ONE example.

Argus, you're not paying attention. Innocent people are going to die no matter what. There is no known cure for human behavior. What we're talking about here is that MANY MANY more innocent people die because of the availability of guns in American communities. 'Many' means more than an order of magnitude. That means more than TEN TIMES MORE people will die because of our liberal gun laws. That means more than 10,000 people per year. This is not my opinion, this is based on available global data. In other words, you can't win this argument, you can only make silly pronouncements that will make you appear dumb if you do.

I don't care about your NRA example where 'seconds count' (a gang-banger would toast you anyway, if that was the situation). I care about the examples where five-year-olds shoot themselves or their friends by accident with their parents guns. I care about the examples where depressed people put a pistol to their heads because it's easy. I care about innocent victims who take stray bullets when the shooter misses their target (or the bullet passes through the target). I care about students who die in schools or malls because crazy kids have access to serious firearms. Guns are not bad, people are. So for f*ck's sake, let's manage people's access to guns.

I'm tired of making the same point over and over again in this thread. I'm going to stop. If you think you have some hard data that counters what I've been arguing, post it and let's discuss it. But PUH-LEEZE, if you're just the next guy without a clue who is going to make a 'guns are good' post without a CLUE what you're talking about, please spare us.

Guest032213-02 · 09-01-2010, 08:32 AM

++++++++++1

TexTushHog · 09-01-2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lust4xxxLife

Argus, you're not paying attention. Innocent people are going to die no matter what. There is no known cure for human behavior. What we're talking about here is that MANY MANY more innocent people die because of the availability of guns in American communities. 'Many' means more than an order of magnitude. That means more than TEN TIMES MORE people will die because of our liberal gun laws. That means more than 10,000 people per year. This is not my opinion, this is based on available global data. In other words, you can't win this argument, you can only make silly pronouncements that will make you appear dumb if you do.

I don't care about your NRA example where 'seconds count' (a gang-banger would toast you anyway, if that was the situation). I care about the examples where five-year-olds shoot themselves or their friends by accident with their parents guns. I care about the examples where depressed people put a pistol to their heads because it's easy. I care about innocent victims who take stray bullets when the shooter misses their target (or the bullet passes through the target). I care about students who die in schools or malls because crazy kids have access to serious firearms. Guns are not bad, people are. So for f*ck's sake, let's manage people's access to guns.

I'm tired of making the same point over and over again in this thread. I'm going to stop. If you think you have some hard data that counters what I've been arguing, post it and let's discuss it. But PUH-LEEZE, if you're just the next guy without a clue who is going to make a 'guns are good' post without a CLUE what you're talking about, please spare us.

Hear, hear!!!! Hear, hear!!!!

lightning · 09-02-2010, 01:29 PM

Lust, you've summed it up quite accurately. If you want to know where the highest murder or death rate is by gun, look at the states with the MOST guns per capita. If you want to know where the lower and lowest rates of murders or accidental gun deaths, look at those with the highest rates of guns registered or not per capital.

If you look at gun death statistics, you'd notice your chance of dieing from a gunshot from your own gun are far higher than of your gun protecting you. But gun owners are more into emotion then reality or data.

lightning · 09-02-2010, 01:30 PM

But I agree with you, doe's that help?

LazurusLong · 09-02-2010, 05:19 PM

Banning weapons is not a novel idea.

http://todays-creators.com/?s=crossbow

"30 August 1146 – Church leaders ban the use of the crossbow, considering it an immoral weapon. They hoped this would end warfare.

Banning things always works so well........

Can't say that the "data" you have given for other countries, which the USA is so unlike, has any true bearing on this country.

Progressives has striven for close to 100 years to brainwash folks into believing they need to not defend their lives, property or others with whatever means are at hand.

LazurusLong · 09-02-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightning

Lust, you've summed it up quite accurately. If you want to know where the highest murder or death rate is by gun, look at the states with the MOST guns per capita.

Take a look at Switzerland for the world's highest per capita gun ownership rates.

Weapons at home include the 5.56x45mm Sig 550 rifle for enlisted personnel or the SIG 510 rifle and/or the 9mm SIG-Sauer P220 semi-automatic pistol for officers.

FULLY auto machine guns at home! Oh the horror!

Semi-auto handguns? You'd expect deaths by the minute according to your stats.

An incovenient fact? Switzerland.

Oh, I might refer you to Isreal also, where there are WAY more guns in homes and on the person than in this country. Very low murder rate when you exclude the terrorist attacks.

Lust4xxxLife · 09-02-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LazurusLong

Can't say that the "data" you have given for other countries, which the USA is so unlike, has any true bearing on this country.

Why not? What is different about this country that requires us to put up with such a high rate of firearm homicides? Why is it necessary for the country with the most sophisticated and powerful military on the planet to let it's population arm themselves for the purpose of shooting at each other? Does that really make sense to you?

If guns were as freely available in the UK and other countries as they are here, they too would suffer from a gun culture and all the homicides that go along with it.

In Switzerland, the population is armed, but the regulations are incredibly strict. In Israel, they also have helicopters patrolling the coast 24/7 because EVERY neighbor is hostile. And everyone does military service. Kind of a different situation than the superfluous and unnecessary gun culture we have here.

LL, you seem like an ok guy because you've kept the debate civil, but you sure seem blind to the realities of the American gun culture.

LazurusLong · 09-02-2010, 07:08 PM

As I noted, if you want to quote other countries, include the Swiss first. Highest gun ownership per capita of ANY nation.

or did you miss that?

They have substantially less crime than any other country and are the most heavily armed.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.

"An armed society is a polite society".

Guest032213-02 · 09-03-2010, 06:53 AM

So, the Swiss are just less violent that Americans? Possibly. There is more discrimination, and more of a need for each citizen to prove themselves than probably exists in Switzerland. So, if the above sentence is true, isn't it than a fact that US citizens DO NOT need guns, because obviously we cannot exist in the same non-violent bubble as the Swiss. More guns = more gun deaths - At least in the US. Thank you for proving the huge difference between Swiss gun ownership and US gun ownership.

DrWhat · 09-10-2010, 09:01 PM

Sorry to bump this back but....Lust, since we were discussing it anyway. I got home tonight and almost stepped on a 4' long water moccasin. I got back in my car and it slithered into the woodpile next to my garage door.
I took your advise and called the police since my SO will get home late.
They said, "We don't take care of snakes" they came out anyway and saw him curled up ready to strike...".Can't do nuthin' 'bout no snakes" got in is car and left. ...How about animal control? "AC does not take care of them either. ..... Your tax dollars at work!

Lust4xxxLife · 09-11-2010, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrWhat

Sorry to bump this back but....Lust, since we were discussing it anyway. I got home tonight and almost stepped on a 4' long water moccasin. I got back in my car and it slithered into the woodpile next to my garage door.
I took your advise and called the police since my SO will get home late.
They said, "We don't take care of snakes" they came out anyway and saw him curled up ready to strike...".Can't do nuthin' 'bout no snakes" got in is car and left. ...How about animal control? "AC does not take care of them either. ..... Your tax dollars at work!

Maybe it's just me, but I just love dealing with snakes because I hate them so much. If I were in your situation, the last thing I would want is a gun (unless it's a shotgun, which is not permitted). Wasp spray or pepper spray from 8-10 feet would be my weapon of choice... along with a long-handled shovel.

What city are you in?

DrWhat · 09-11-2010, 07:37 AM

yep...it's just you.... wasp spray? you're just gonna piss him off. I have to do something now though since it is making a nest next to where I walk in my garage. And no Lust, I can't discharge my gun in city limits. That was originally just joking. Talk about coming back to bite you in in ass. .....frakin' police are worthless, only good for arresting consenting adults and bragging that is "protecting" the community.

LazurusLong · 09-11-2010, 08:06 PM

Drwhat.

If you fire 1 shot, next to your house, no one will notice. Been there and done that to dispatch a large possum that was trying to get after a dog at my house.

.22 is best but I dispatched it with a Glaser blue tip safety round from a 9mm Sig.

If you really don't want to shoot it, get one of those grabbing things from Home Depot that you use to reach things on the top of a shelf. Have a large garbage can handy.

Grab it and drop it in the can.

Once trapped, if you want to kill it, get a land handled spade and see if you can chop the head off.

Believe it or not, animal control in Dallas in the past has come and picked up a large dead snake I put at the curb and placed a 3-1-1 service request to have picked up. Dead snakes yes, live? hell no.

wolfeman · 09-12-2010, 11:02 AM

I am surprised that animal control did not deal with it for you. That is what they do. I am not surprised, however, that the police dept didn't help. All they would have been able to do is to shoot the snake. As simple and logical as that may seem, you have to remember that government , as well as private businesses policy, is dictated by sue-happy folks just waiting for an opportunity to go to court over everything. Had the officer shot the snake, and a richotet occured and someone was hurt, everyone would have condemned the officer for doing something as foolish as discharging a firearm in a residential area. What were common sense practices in the past has been abandoned because lawyers are very quick to take everyone to court in order to squeeze a dime out of them. That is why the need for ridiculous warning labels on items. (McDonalds' "hot coffee" lawsuit) Governmenst, as well as private businesses, weigh every action as a potential lawsuit. Twenty years ago, the officer would have used his shotgun (because of short range) and dispatched the snake, got into his squad car, and drove off. Today, some "concerned citizen" as well as PETA would be on the six o'clock news wanting justice for the damn snake.