Welcome to ECCIE, become a part of the fastest growing adult community. Take a minute & sign up!

Welcome to ECCIE - Sign up today!

Become a part of one of the fastest growing adult communities online. We have something for you, whether you’re a male member seeking out new friends or a new lady on the scene looking to take advantage of our many opportunities to network, make new friends, or connect with people. Join today & take part in lively discussions, take advantage of all the great features that attract hundreds of new daily members!

Go Premium

Go Back   ECCIE Worldwide > General Interest > The Political Forum
test
The Political Forum Discuss anything related to politics in this forum. World politics, US Politics, State and Local.

Most Favorited Images
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
Most Liked Images
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
  • Thumb
Top Reviewers
cockalatte 646
MoneyManMatt 490
Still Looking 399
samcruz 399
Jon Bon 393
Harley Diablo 377
honest_abe 362
DFW_Ladies_Man 313
Chung Tran 288
lupegarland 287
nicemusic 285
You&Me 281
Starscream66 277
George Spelvin 265
sharkman29 255
Top Posters
DallasRain70750
biomed162882
Yssup Rider60559
gman4453255
LexusLover51038
offshoredrilling48527
WTF48267
pyramider46370
bambino42073
CryptKicker37192
Mokoa36491
The_Waco_Kid36433
Chung Tran36100
Still Looking35944
Mojojo33117

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-05-2021, 02:50 PM   #76
LexusLover
Valued Poster
 
LexusLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 16, 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 51,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eccieuser9500 View Post
I just believe irresponsible control of a weapon is criminal.
A problem with his "belief" is the phrase "irresponsible control," because of the vagueness of the two words. It lends itself to radical differences in application when applied to any given set of facts. Here is an example:

Toss out the motor vehicle laws with respect to the operation of motor vehicles on public roadways and allow law enforcement to apply a standard for the operation of a motor vehicle so that they may stop and arrest someone for "irresponsible control" of their motor vehicle.

And if you think there's a difference between "motor vehicle" and "weapon" take a look at the motor vehicle deaths compared to firearms ("weapon"?). The stats I've seen show gun violence (non-suicide) about 20,000 in 2020 and motor vehicle deaths to be about 39,000. If one must toss in suicides it was another 24,000 (?) so a total of about 44,000 gun deaths. Not too much of a distinction to earn a more aggressive rationale, particularly when there is no Constitutional privilege to posses and/or own a motor vehicle.
LexusLover is offline   Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 02:58 PM   #77
eccieuser9500
BANNED
 
eccieuser9500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 29, 2013
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 10,907
Encounters: 46
Default

From my view, the defense is arguing procedure and timing. Not the facts. The facts are the reason why they should be charged.
eccieuser9500 is offline   Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 03:03 PM   #78
LexusLover
Valued Poster
 
LexusLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 16, 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 51,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eccieuser9500 View Post
From my view, the defense is arguing procedure and timing. Not the facts. The facts are the reason why they should be charged.
"The law" is why they should be charged, if there is probable cause that the facts fit. That's why some folks say: "there ought to be a law" when the "facts" are offensive, but not "against any law"!
LexusLover is offline   Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 03:09 PM   #79
eccieuser9500
BANNED
 
eccieuser9500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 29, 2013
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 10,907
Encounters: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusLover View Post
A problem with his "belief" is the phrase "irresponsible control," because of the vagueness of the two words. It lends itself to radical differences in application when applied to any given set of facts. Here is an example:

Toss out the motor vehicle laws with respect to the operation of motor vehicles on public roadways and allow law enforcement to apply a standard for the operation of a motor vehicle so that they may stop and arrest someone for "irresponsible control" of their motor vehicle.

And if you think there's a difference between "motor vehicle" and "weapon" take a look at the motor vehicle deaths compared to firearms ("weapon"?). The stats I've seen show gun violence (non-suicide) about 20,000 in 2020 and motor vehicle deaths to be about 39,000. If one must toss in suicides it was another 24,000 (?) so a total of about 44,000 gun deaths. Not too much of a distinction to earn a more aggressive rationale, particularly when there is no Constitutional privilege to posses and/or own a motor vehicle.
I concede. The law is semantics. "What is the definition of is?"

Irresponsible to me means they should not have let him keep the gun when the school informed them of his behavior. Maybe my timing is off on the sequence of events, but I think they were aware of his "issue", if you want to call them that.

Control? I think his father told him not to get caught researching ammo and asking where to get it. He should have taken control of the weapon if he knew he had problems.

Again, not sure what they knew and when they knew it. I'm going off memory right now as I'm watching the AFC North rivalry. This from Associated Press reports.
eccieuser9500 is offline   Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 03:12 PM   #80
eccieuser9500
BANNED
 
eccieuser9500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 29, 2013
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 10,907
Encounters: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusLover View Post
"The law" is why they should be charged, if there is probable cause that the facts fit. That's why some folks say: "there ought to be a law" when the "facts" are offensive, but not "against any law"!
And that's why it's taken to a judge to interpret the law with which they've been charged of violating. Sir. (Did I just really write that?)
eccieuser9500 is offline   Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 07:18 PM   #81
The_Waco_Kid
AKA Admiral Waco Kid
 
The_Waco_Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 8, 2010
Location: The MAGA Zone
Posts: 36,433
Encounters: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yssup Rider View Post
School has culpability here too, imho.

The kid should not be allowed to walk free again.

The parents were in hiding. That doesn't really imply their willingness to surrender, despite what their lawyer said.

Unless you believe lawyers aren't trying to protect their clients.

they most certainly do.


A counselor told the parents their son needed to get counseling, but Crumbley was able to return to class. His parents did not ask him about the firearm at that time, nor did they search his backpack, McDonald said.


at this point the school should have suspended him. on the spot. forcing the parents to take him home with them. the school also could have searched his backpack, they have the right while he's on school property. if they asked the parents and they refused or just didn't, the school should have.


they had grounds to suspend him, remove him from the school grounds to prevent exactly what happened. they should have searched the backpack. at that point they could have called the police. not a lawyer but i think the police could have confiscated the gun under the circumstances. eventually the parents could get it back but it would have defused the situation.


the school didn't cause this punk to do what he did but they certainly blew an opportunity to prevent it.
The_Waco_Kid is offline   Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 07:35 PM   #82
eccieuser9500
BANNED
 
eccieuser9500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 29, 2013
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 10,907
Encounters: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid View Post
the school didn't cause this punk to do what he did but they certainly blew an opportunity to prevent it.

I think the parents did as well. And they have more responsibility for his well being. Did the school do its part and the parents neglected their's?
eccieuser9500 is offline   Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 07:44 PM   #83
The_Waco_Kid
AKA Admiral Waco Kid
 
The_Waco_Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 8, 2010
Location: The MAGA Zone
Posts: 36,433
Encounters: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eccieuser9500 View Post
I think the parents did as well. And they have more responsibility for his well being. Did the school do it's part and the parents neglected their's?

clearly the parents have more culpability, it's their job to raise this kid not the school. still, the school should have acted more forcefully and didn't. they had clear warning signs of mental instability by a counselor who should have training in this area to evaluate a student's mental health and saw obvious evidence of that.
The_Waco_Kid is offline   Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 08:34 PM   #84
eccieuser9500
BANNED
 
eccieuser9500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 29, 2013
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 10,907
Encounters: 46
Default

Did the school do its part . . . ?

Not "it's ".

Should the school, or counselor, be held accountable? I don't think so.

Not completely. I thought they warned the parents.

Just asking. Just going off what I remember from listening to public radio.



(I have been drinking away a surprise win today. That's my caveat tonight.)
eccieuser9500 is offline   Quote
Old 12-05-2021, 09:19 PM   #85
WTF
Lifetime Premium Access
 
WTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1, 2010
Location: houston
Posts: 48,267
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eccieuser9500 View Post
From my view, the defense is arguing procedure and timing. Not the facts. The facts are the reason why they should be charged.
More facts are emerging..
https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/05/us/mi...day/index.html

On Monday, a teacher saw the suspect looking at photos of ammunition on his cell phone during class, which prompted a meeting with a counselor and another staff member. During that discussion, the student told them that he and his mother had recently gone to a shooting range and that "shooting sports are a family hobby," Throne wrote in the letter.

The school tried to reach the student's mother that day, but didn't hear back until the following day when his parents confirmed the student's story, Throne said.
After school officials reached out to Jennifer Crumbley regarding her son searching the web for ammunition, she texted him saying, "LOL I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught," prosecutors have said.
The morning of the shooting
Then on Tuesday -- the day of the shooting -- a teacher alerted school counselors and the Dean of students to "concerning drawings and written statements" that the student had created, according to the letter. He was "immediately removed from the classroom" and taken to a guidance counselor's office, Throne explains.

The student told a school counselor that "the drawing was part of a video game he was designing and informed counselors that he planned to pursue video game design as a career," Throne said.
Following that discussion, the student stayed in the office for an hour and half as school staff called his parents and waited for them to arrive to the school, the letter noted. While waiting the student said he was concerned about missing his homework assignments and "requested his science homework, which he then worked on while in the office," the letter said.
"At no time did counselors believe the student might harm others based on his behavior, responses and demeanor, which appeared calm," Throne said.

Upon the parents' arrival, the school counselors asked the student "specific probing questions" about his potential for self-harm or harm toward others, Throne said. The answers he provided "led counselors to again conclude he did not intend on committing either self-harm or harm to others," according to the letter.

School counselors told the parents they must seek counseling for their son within 48 hours, otherwise the school would contact Child Protective Services, Throne wrote.
When asked to take their child home for the rest of the day, Throne said the student's parents "flatly refused," leaving their son behind to "return to work." And because the student had no prior disciplinary actions on his record, school counselors decided to allow him to return to his class, rather than send him to what they thought would be an empty home, Throne explained.
WTF is offline   Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 03:29 AM   #86
LexusLover
Valued Poster
 
LexusLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 16, 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 51,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eccieuser9500 View Post
Not "it's ".

..... I have been drinking away ...
Another grammar/spelling queen I see. More of your insecurity. And blame on the booze.
LexusLover is offline   Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 03:33 AM   #87
WTF
Lifetime Premium Access
 
WTF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 1, 2010
Location: houston
Posts: 48,267
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusLover View Post
Another grammar/spelling queen I see. More of your insecurity. And blame on the booze.
Are you saying you've never corrected one's grammar or spelling on here?

Are you still of mind that this couple is guilty?

Or are you only capable now of promoting Sports Illustrated?
WTF is offline   Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 06:19 AM   #88
Salty Again
Valued Poster
 
Join Date: Sep 26, 2021
Location: down under Pittsburgh
Posts: 9,890
Default

... surely seem like reasonable behavour from the school officials.

### Salty
Salty Again is offline   Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 08:29 AM   #89
LexusLover
Valued Poster
 
LexusLover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 16, 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 51,038
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salty Again View Post
... surely seem like reasonable behavour from the school officials.

### Salty
You just left him and his shadow, WTFDoIKnow, behind ...

... with the "school officials" reference.

GEDs don't require "officials" for guidance.
LexusLover is offline   Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 02:02 PM   #90
eccieuser9500
BANNED
 
eccieuser9500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 29, 2013
Location: Milky Way
Posts: 10,907
Encounters: 46
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LexusLover View Post
Another grammar/spelling queen I see. More of your insecurity. And blame on the booze.

Easily triggered. But who cares what I think? Oh . . . wait. You.
eccieuser9500 is offline   Quote
Reply



AMPReviews.net
Find Ladies
Hot Women

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright © 2009 - 2016, ECCIE Worldwide, All Rights Reserved