Tax Cut

[KCJoe]

I'm glad John Galt doesn't prepare my income taxes. He'd have me paying tax on my gross income instead of my net.

As far as the Bush tax cuts expiring, you have to remember that that was the plan all along. The only way the tax cuts were made was because they had to be revenue neutral (what ever that means). So doesn't it make sense that the expiration of the tax cuts is because of Bush?

Also the other tax plans mentioned (flat tax, sales/value added, etc.) would result in fewer taxes being collected from the rich (whatever that is defined as). Without the government making massive spending cuts (which neither party is capable of), there is no way we'll ever be able to balance the budget. Or with tax collections on the rich, going down, then the tax collections of those making less than the rich will have to go up.

The two biggest portions of the budget are Social Security and Medicare. Good luck trimming either of those and remaining in office.

The reason our county is in the predicament it's in, I feel, is because of gutless politicians on both sides of the aisle unwilling to make the tough choices and telling their constituents or the all powerful lobbyists NO.

[CuteOldGuy]

[/QUOTE]The reason our county is in the predicament it's in, I feel, is because of gutless politicians on both sides of the aisle unwilling to make the tough choices and telling their constituents or the all powerful lobbyists NO.[/QUOTE]

Hit the nail on the head there.

Here's to the Establishment in both parties:

[john_galt]

KCJoe, I never said anything about gross or net. You are making an attack about what someone else claimed. Check your source, you don't want to be a monger...

You are right about the cause but at some point the social security bomb will go off and then something will have to be done.

[KCJoe]

per John Galt: "A small business person who is "making" a half a million dollars may only end up with 100,000 dollars after everything is deducted and now they get their taxes are raised to 40% on what is left over."

sounds to me like you implied that the top bracket rates are determined by the gross, not the net when it only applies to that net taxable income over $250,000, not on all of the income.

[john_galt]

You inferred whilst I spoke in generalities...

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by KCJoe

Or with tax collections on the rich, going down, then the tax collections of those making less than the rich will have to go up.

Post #61 was a good one. This is my favorite part. The neat trick is how the rich (who only have a few percent of the votes) get the less affluent to vote against their own interests. We have lower income people going bonkers RIGHT NOW about the expiration of the Bush Tax cuts for the upper 2%. Do they not understand that their tax rates will have to go up to cover the break given to the wealthiest? I can only guess that they never played on the playgrounds' see-saw when they were kids, so they don't grasp the concept.

[john_galt]

No representation without taxation! If you don't pay income taxes then you don't vote.

[Longermonger]

I think you have that backwards. Or maybe you were trying to quote British PM John Major's speech to the UN? Odd, either way.

"No representation without taxation! If you don't pay income taxes then you don't vote." Wow. Just wow. Why not just let land owners have the right to vote? Or white male land owners? I thought this was 21st Century America. Democracy FOR ALL, please.

I guess that brings up the obvious question,"If you had to choose between paying taxes and voting, which would you choose?" My guess is that 99% of Tea Partiests would give up their right to vote if they could skip paying taxes. Do they really believe in a democratic republic or do they really believe they'd like to keep all of their money and let EVERYONE ELSE pay for public services?

[john_galt]

Monger, ever hear of the word "stakeholder". It is econ 101. The idea that a person who has some invested in an idea, corporation, or country is a little more concerned about the outcome. I go back to one T. Jefferson who said that a democracy cannot long remain when a majority of the citizens have excess to the public treasury. Just about 50% of the American voters don't pay any federal income tax so why do they worry when some sack of excrement politician says that we have to raise taxes? They have no stake. At the very least every citizen should have to pay at least 1 dollar in federal taxes if they want to vote in this REPUBLIC (not a democracy). As to your question; if someone does not want to pay taxes then they should sign a statement that they will not involve themselves in anyway in politics and that means voting, running for, or giving money to politicians.
Read Robert Heinlein's Starship Troopers or David Gerrold's A Time for Men to see the concept in action.

[kcbigpapa]

WTF??? A Poll Tax??? Wasn't that settled a long time ago? Didn't they get rid of it because it was essentially a way to limit the black vote? JG, do you want to limit the voting rights of black people? That is what I am taking from this, but with you, this does not surprise me one bit.

[dirty dog]

You know for all the political bullshit here the truth of the matter is most americans know that in order to live in this country and enjoys things like highways full of potholes and bridges ready to fall down, they know they have to pay taxes. Now liberals likle Monger like to paint the picture that only conservatives want to pay less taxes, he portrays the libs as lining up and willing to give up their hard earned money. The reality is nobody regardless of party likes to pay taxes and everyone regardless of party wants to pay as little as they can. The problem I have with taxes is not having to pay them, its with having to pay more than the next person, especially those people who use the government tit. Galt was trying to say that 50% of Americans pay no taxes. Because they pay no taxes they have nothing to lose when a politician says they are going to raise taxes, they continue to reap the benefits while the other 50% pay the toll. Now I dont believe that they should have to pay a poll tax, I do think that if they taked givernment assistance they should have to work for it by community service hours. This gives them some stake in the America they suck dry.

Since Monger likes to make this a conservative & Liberal issue, I am willing to print my tax return, minues personal information and put it on the net as long as he is willing to do so also. Then we can see who pays the most in tax. If its found out that Monger pays more in tax than me, I will never speak on the issue again, if I am found to have paid more than he can never speak on the matter again. I am talking about actual taxes paid. While were at it we can compare charitable giving and we can see who gives more to their fellow man. One of the things I hate most about liberals and most of them talk the walk but never walk it. So what do you say monger??????

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by kcbigpapa

WTF??? A Poll Tax??? Wasn't that settled a long time ago? Didn't they get rid of it because it was essentially a way to limit the black vote? JG, do you want to limit the voting rights of black people? That is what I am taking from this, but with you, this does not surprise me one bit.

C'mon, Papa. This was uncalled for, and not at all consistent with what Galt was saying. I hope this thread is closed quickly, before it degenerates even farther. This is ridiculous.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

C'mon, Papa. This was uncalled for, and not at all consistent with what Galt was saying. I hope this thread is closed quickly, before it degenerates even farther. This is ridiculous.

COG, this goes towards a long list of postings by JG that are racial in nature. I think calling for a poll tax is uncalled for in this day and age. But, some do not adapt to change as well as others.

[KCJoe]

income taxes are just part of the taxes americans pay. the fact that the more well to do pay more in federal income tax based on their total income somewhat makes up for the fact that they pay a much smaller percentage of their income in other taxes such as, fuel, sales, excise, etc, compared to the less wealthy.

the happiest people I know who are wealthy, pay their taxes and worry about other things such as theirs and their familys health and safety. the most unhappy wealthy people I know, constantly worry about how unfair the tax system is and are constantly trying to figure a way out of paying taxes.

I've read that a persons happiness doesn't increase after $70,000 of income which I just checked is about the same as the amount of federal state and local income taxes i paid last year.

[dirty dog]

"total income somewhat makes up for the fact that they pay a much smaller percentage of their income in other taxes such as, fuel, sales, excise, etc, compared to the less wealthy."

How do the rich pay less in tax at the fuel pump, last I saw the pump or the attendent have no way to change the tax rate nor anyway to determine your income, same for sales taxes, how does one get Walmart to change the tax rate. Now had you said, estate taxes, property tax, I may have agreed with you, but the taxes you indicate would be difficult to reduce. Unless your saying they use less fuel and by less stuff.