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The_Waco_Kid · 04-20-2021, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eccieuser9500

You're so full of shit.

if you say so

HedonistForever · 04-20-2021, 08:13 PM

I would love to hear the discussions that jury had. I can't help but wonder if anybody, at any time, wondered out loud, "can we afford to find this guy not guilty even if we think he is"? It had to be in the back of their mind but between the video and all the other police testifying against Chauvin, it was easy to see he was toast.

What turned me against Chauvin was time. His attorney did what I thought was an excellent job of going through Chauvin's actions and justifying them with words right out of the training manual. There was nothing illegal about putting his knee to the neck of Floyd. It said so right there in Black and White.

What it didn't say, was how long you could do that.

Remember how Floyd kept saying "I can't breathe" even while sitting upright in the back of the police car for the few seconds he was in the back seat. Then he couldn't breathe while being removed from the police car. A "reasonable" cop at this point has got to be thinking "this guy is just repeating this because be has been conditioned from all the other arrest to keep repeating "I can't breathe" to try and get the cops to stop trying to subdue him".

So after about 16 minutes ( the time from the moment they try to arrest him, till the clock starts ticking on the 9 minutes and 26 seconds on the ground ) of saying I can't breathe before he was ever put on the ground in the prone position with Chauvin on his next, he had played the boy who cried wolf card, too many times. They didn't believe him any more and it cost Floyd his life and Chauvin too.

"If you can talk, you can breathe". The cops said it and the expert witness said it. "If you can talk, you can breathe", but there came a time at about the 8 minute mark or so, that Floyd stopped talking. I thought to myself, if he isn't talking or moving any more, maybe he isn't breathing but Chauvin didn't react to the fact that he stopped talking.

The defense attorney tried to make the case that at that very moment when the expert witness said "right there, that's where Floyd took his last breathe", Chauvin was distracted by a bystander behind him. So much that he reached for his can of Mace and shook it. Someone in the crowd can be heard to say "He's got his Mace out". That was the moment Floyd died according to the expert, while Chauvin was distracted from what was happening to Floyd. This is not meant to relief Chauvin of any responsibility but to highlight why he may not have made the connection between Floyd not talking, to Floyd not breathing.

That's when I came to the conclusion that no matter what was happening at the time, Chauvin should have thought to himself, he isn't talking, maybe he isn't breathing but he didn't.

Then there was the testimony that the EMT's were expected in 3 minutes. That is what they were told. It will be 3 minutes before the EMT's get here. If it had been 3 minutes, Floyd would be alive but it took well over 5 if I remember correctly. So maybe Chauvin was thinking "I won't be on his neck long enough to cause a problem because the EMT's will be here in 3 minutes and he waited and waited and waited.

The cards didn't fall for Chauvin and it cost Floyd his life. There was no way Chauvin wasn't going to pay the price for this.

Chung Tran · 04-20-2021, 08:24 PM

[QUOTE=gnadfly;1062432084]2nd degree is intentional. I see your time away from the board studying law was ill spent.[/QU

Bullshit it is

eccieuser9500 · 04-21-2021, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

if you say so

That's lame. The police chief said so.

If you say "if you say so",

that would be funny.

nevergaveitathought · 04-21-2021, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HedonistForever

"If you can talk, you can breathe". The cops said it and the expert witness said it. "If you can talk, you can breathe", but there came a time at about the 8 minute mark or so, that Floyd stopped talking. I thought to myself, if he isn't talking or moving any more, maybe he isn't breathing but Chauvin didn't react to the fact that he stopped talking.

The cards didn't fall for Chauvin and it cost Floyd his life. There was no way Chauvin wasn't going to pay the price for this.

would it have made any difference if chauvin had done something when floyd stopped talking?

if that's when he died chauvin would be blamed either way, id think

from all I can gather Floyd died not from not being able to breathe due to chauvin but from the totality of everything wrong with him

its likely he was on a collision course with death soon with or without chauvin

that's not to say chauvin couldn't have altered his course and type of detainment

talk about being at the wrong place at the wrong time

and becoming the poster boy for everything America has ever been blamed for by the left

reddog1951 · 04-21-2021, 02:47 PM

Never-Gave-It-Thought is appropriate. Extend that logic and it's OK to suffocate Grandma with a pillow because she was fat, diabetic, obese, pissed you off...oh, and also rich. Collison course there too.

Tiny · 04-21-2021, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddog1951

Never-Gave-It-Thought is appropriate. Extend that logic and it's OK to suffocate Grandma with a pillow because she was fat, diabetic, obese, pissed you off...oh, and also rich. Collison course there too.

I didn't get anything like that out of nevergaveitathought's post. However some bitch on a sugardaddy site used exactly that logic when she figured out I was a fan of masks, right before she blocked me.

GastonGlock · 04-21-2021, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddog1951

Never-Gave-It-Thought is appropriate. Extend that logic and it's OK to suffocate Grandma with a pillow because she was fat, diabetic, obese, pissed you off...oh, and also rich. Collison course there too.

Plenty of things are OK if you don't get caught. It's not a war crime if there's no one left to testify against you.

nevergaveitathought · 04-21-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiny

I didn't get anything like that out of nevergaveitathought's post. However some bitch on a sugardaddy site used exactly that logic when she figured out I was a fan of masks, right before she blocked me.

I didn't get it either from my post because what he claims is a logical extension isnt

reddog1951 · 04-21-2021, 03:38 PM

In case no one here has noticed, I generally don't debate facts, unless it is related to science that I understand. I do like to debate logic, or the lack thereof, in reasoning. Especially the lack of consideration on consequences from precedents set.

"Plenty of things are OK if you don't get caught. It's not a war crime if there's no one left to testify against you."

A rather rash statement historically.

pfunkdenver · 04-21-2021, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GastonGlock

Plenty of things are OK if you don't get caught. It's not a war crime if there's no one left to testify against you.

Sooo...if Hitler had managed to exterminate the Jews, and win WWII, it would have been OK?

winn dixie · 04-21-2021, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfunkdenver

Sooo...if Hitler had managed to exterminate the Jews, and win WWII, it would have been OK?

Good grief!

GastonGlock · 04-21-2021, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pfunkdenver

Sooo...if Hitler had managed to exterminate the Jews, and win WWII, it would have been OK?

If there's no one around to say otherwise? Then yeah.

That would be upsetting to both you and I, but we wouldn't be there to object.

Lucas McCain · 04-21-2021, 07:13 PM

The moral of the story is if you want to commit a criminal act, at least be smart enough to make sure it is not being recorded and subsequently played in front of a jury.

Cops are not above the law although the few bad ones like Chauvin think they are.

DesWad · 04-21-2021, 09:00 PM

Chauvin got screwed. As you mentioned, Floyd was having trouble breathing when they were putting him in the backseat. Heart attack? Panic attack? Fentanyl? Any other issue?
I think no question Chauvin is guilty of Manslaughter and maybe a lesser 3rd degree but those first two guilty counts were straight up Mob Justice. You were right on all of it. But I disagree completely with the verdict and how the Judge handled the entire thing. The Judge did blush or turn red for a brief moment prior to reading the verdict. May not mean much more than he was surprised.