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Originally Posted by greymouse
Rand: I am sorry to have to say that is a bizarre metaphor. This isn't about choosing up sides and fighting, however appealing that seems to be to so many men. It is really about coming to term with the Golden Rule which, in less Seventeen Century language, says the best way to get people to treat you the way you would like for them to treat you is to treat them the same way. That is not hard to grasp. The next part might be a little more of stretch but likely you can reach out there and grab it: women are people too. That is all there is to it.
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Here’s what I’ve seen so far. The title of this thread is “A few posters…are not the Majority.” An informal name of “Attack Pack” was given to some of the men here who have expressed similar interest or opinions. There have been numerous mention of “us vs. them” or “provider vs. hobbyist” drama, mentality, atmosphere here. While it is true that men AND women can lose their identity to pack or mob mentality and do things very much out of character for them, this is not the core issue here. The biggest problem I have seen so far is the perception of insult when there has not been one intended.
While I appreciate the lesson in the Golden Rule, I would urge you to read over my posts and even some of the ones that you think might have been denigrating to women. Take into account the context of the thread, questions asked, and the answers given. I have no trouble understanding or grasping that women are people, thank you. In fact, the “Attack Pack” were pretty tame until someone else stirred the pot from the opposite side. It’s easy to let your view be colored by a few who cry foul, especially if you’re feeling protective of the ‘fairer sex’.
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Earlier in this thread you said you didn't know if you were "considered part of the "Attack Pack". I wouldn't consider you to be, but like a lot of men here who want to appear Manly to themselves in front of their virtual male peer group there is a temptation to ratchet up the Manliness a bit by throwing the the occasional rhetorical rock at the Pink Team. You might get an attaboy from the Pack. Abstractly I can see how it might be hard to fight against that.
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I suppose you could, and I’m sure the corresponding attaboy from the Pink Team can be just as tempting. However, I don’t feel the need for validation from either. I state what I think, I think before making a statement, and I try to make sure that logic is the primary driving force in my thinking.
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I say "abstractly" because I don't have a male peer group and never have had one. I like women, I don't like men although I admire some men's work. I don't like them, as a group, because most of them are what Mark Twain called "Self-Made Bastards" who could be named as such without any insult to their mothers, who probably did the best they could to civilize the little heatherns. But the seductive pull of the peer group, real or virtual, was too strong. The disagreeable thing, to me, is how Proud so many men seem to be of having made themselves into such sorry excuses for human beings.
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It seems that you only selectively apply the Golden Rule. From your words, you seem to think men, in general, are mentally incapable of escaping the pack mentality. Reach, greymouse. Men are humans too. I’ve learned much from both men and women over the years, and have shared great times with both. Sounds like you need to find more mature men.
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Women, on the other hand, for me, are the source of everything that makes life worth living and and the awful mess that the testosterone-fueled minority has made of most of the world worth putting up with. What anyone finds attractive about male camaraderie is really and truly mysterious to me.
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Really? Everything that makes life worth living? Say no more, I have a better understanding of your perspective now. Thank you.
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And if you don't see "denigration of women here" here perhaps you need to clean your glasses. If you have gotten too near "Shouts" and the Pack they likely have had considerable spittle sprayed on them.
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I don’t wear glasses.
You seem to be wearing some tinted glasses that only allow you to judge people based on their sex. I have met good and bad from both sexes, I am able to judge them as human beings, instead of limiting myself to judge only based on their genitalia. I think you may learn a great deal by opening your mind and making an effort to understand humans, rather than seeing women as “everything that makes life worth living.”
Good luck.
