Taxation Without Representation

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by Doove

OR....they have no say over the fact that their tax rate will be 45% or greater because people like you don't want to pay for what we use.



"Your great-grandpa's generation was filled with cheap bastards who thought everything was free"?

Wrong, as usual, Doofe. What I don't want to pay for is undeclared wars, loans to companies going bankrupt, a corrupt and inefficient government mandated healthcare system, an unconstitutional and ineffective Education Department, useless Departments of Energy, Commerce, etc., research on rats who like Miles Davis, endless foreign aid to countries who hate us, endless foreign aid to countries who only like us for the foreign aid, money wasted on the demonstrably worthless United Nations, stupid programs like Kash for Klunkers, bailing out unions by taking over the automobile industry, and so on, and so forth. No, I don't think my grandchildren's children should have to pay for that. Call me a lunatic, but I think they should be able to be born debt free.

You're stupidity, Doofe, is getting less and less creative.

[CuteOldGuy]

Originally Posted by WTF

1) Raise taxes.
2) Cut spending
3) A combination of the two.

I can see you are trying to offer intelligent debate, WTF, and I appreciate that. However, the main thing is that CONGRESS MUST QUIT SPENDING! It is impossible to raise taxes enough to get us out of the mess we're in.

And there is a 4th choice. Scrap the income tax, and replace it with the FairTax. This would dramatically broaden the tax base, and increase revenue. The claim is that the FairTax would be revenue neutral, but that is if everything remains static, which it won't. There will be many more taxpayers, GDP will skyrocket, and the labor market will boom. Congress will still need to QUIT SPENDING, but we'd have a much better shot at turning our economy around than by increasing income taxes.

[joe bloe]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I can see you are trying to offer intelligent debate, WTF, and I appreciate that. However, the main thing is that CONGRESS MUST QUIT SPENDING! It is impossible to raise taxes enough to get us out of the mess we're in.

And there is a 4th choice. Scrap the income tax, and replace it with the FairTax. This would dramatically broaden the tax base, and increase revenue. The claim is that the FairTax would be revenue neutral, but that is if everything remains static, which it won't. There will be many more taxpayers, GDP will skyrocket, and the labor market will boom. Congress will still need to QUIT SPENDING, but we'd have a much better shot at turning our economy around than by increasing income taxes.

There is an underground economy of approximately one trillion dollars that doesn't get taxed as income; with the Fair Tax you'd get 200 billion just on that. I think the Fair Tax people estimate that 6.6 billion man hours are waisted on tax compliance. This equates to another 100 billion dollars. With the Fair Tax, corporations would pay zero tax. America would be a magnet for corporations all over the world.

On the other hand, Hugh Hewitt, who is really really smart, says the Fair Tax won't work. He even wrote a book about it, so who knows.

[CuteOldGuy]

Hugh Hewitt is wrong.

[Guest123018-4]

ithout reading all of theprevious threads it is called generational spending is taxation without representation.

We as a nation have no right to borrow against the future earnings of our children's children's children.

this is a primary reason for a balanced budgetl.

the issue with the liberals is that it will take money away from the vulnerables and the children of absentee baby daddys.

I would propose sunset regulations on all laws, acts or otherwise except for Constitutional amendments to make each and every one expire within two years and must be voted on by the current legislature for it to continue. This law wold be retroactive and apply to all laws with the exception of the Constitution and the amendments. No group or block voting each one must be voted upon individually.
Failure to do this will result in the immediate nullification of the law and immediate discharge of all government employees employed as a result of the law. Each law or act must be read before the complete house, waiving of reading may be accomplished by vote only if the vote is to eliminate the law. No new legislation can be presented including resolutions until the complete review of all previous laws are voted upon. Nothing can be added or taken away for previous laws, it will either be continued or removed. No hearings or otherwise will be allowed,k; arguements for or against will be by two people , one for and one against, No other debate will be allowed with a time limit of 2 minutes each. Exceeding the time limit will result in that individeal being barred form arguments for one year. The legislature will be in session continuosly for a minimu of 14 hours be day until all laws have been reviewed. and voted upon. Any law not reviewed and voted upon will automatically be declared null and void. there will be a 45 minute lunch break with 10 minute bathroom breaks every two hours.

I would also outlaw all caucuses in the legislature. They are elected to represent the citizens of their districts and not special interests within the districts. Immediately illegal.

[JD Barleycorn]

Thomas Jefferson believed that we should vote on all our laws every 20 years. His belief was that an man should not be forced to live under the laws that his father voted on.

Doove demonstrates ignorance again. Those oil "subsidies" only exist in democratic talking points. They are actually tax credits that all businesses get. That means no money is given to the companies but they are allowed to keep more of their own money. That amount is only $4 billion. As you said about other things here, a mere pittance. As for the defense budget; the defense budget for 2012 is only 3.2 percent of GDP. Under Reagan it was 6.2 percent. The last Bush budget it was 5 percent. It is decreasing while we are still at war! Next year it has to take an automatic $60 billion hit because of the failed (as predicted) attempt to get select committee recommendations for budget cuts. That is $60 billion times 10 years for $600 billion dollars of defense spending, ie. body armor, bullets, boots, anti-aircraft missiles, radar, destroyers, aircraft, safety equipment, fuel, training, etc.

In the last Bush budget this country spent over a billion dollars on border security (1.3 billion) and now it is $573 million. There is no budget because of the Senate but that is how much was spent.

Obama is dismantling our national security apparatus more than Carter did.

[Guest123018-4]

Doove and most Democrats do not understand business or the tax code.
It is like the whines that some corporations dont pay taxes.
They fail to grasp the concept that the taxes are paid by the owners of the coporations ore often than not.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Wrong, as usual, Doofe. Blah blah blah. Call me a lunatic, but I think they should be able to be born debt free.

You're stupidity, Doofe, is getting less and less creative.

Rant and rave about all those programs all you want. But the current fact is, we have them. If you had any intellectual honesty at all, you'd agree that as long as we have them (whether we like them or not), we have a duty to pay for them. At least if you want to go on an escort review board and whine about our debt being passed on to our kids' kids' kids.

To accomplish your goal as stated in this thread, we have two options. We can either get rid of the programs, or we can start paying for them. Whining about the programs, and not paying for them accomplishes nothing with respect to the debt we're passing on.

Our debt is no more about what you don't want to pay for than it is that you simply don't want to pay for what this country uses. And yes, there is a difference. And that was my point.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Thomas Jefferson believed that we should vote on all our laws every 20 years. His belief was that an man should not be forced to live under the laws that his father voted on.

So....about that whole constitution thing that people like you always try to fall back on...

As for the defense budget; the defense budget for 2012 is only 3.2 percent of GDP. Under Reagan it was 6.2 percent. The last Bush budget it was 5 percent. It is decreasing while we are still at war!

I'll bet a week's pay that we've spent over $5 trillion more on our military than whatever organization we're fighting has spent on their's since the war(s) started. And yet, 10 years later, "we are still at war!" Boy, are you a sucker.

Obama is dismantling our national security apparatus more than Carter did.

If only.

[Guest123018-4]

I dont know what I would do with $232.00

[CuteOldGuy]

Doofe, this country is spending too much. You miss the point, but that is typical, because you are fine with whatever government does. I'm not. So you can quit lying about my position, thank you.

[cptjohnstone]

Originally Posted by joe bloe

Obama told Charlie Gibson that even if increasing the capital gains tax did not increase revenue, he would still be for it "for puposes of fairness". This one statement defines Obama better than just about anything. He's actually admitting that it's desirable to simply make the rich less rich even if there is no other benefit. This is beyond the desire to redistribute wealth; this is pure class warfare. Rudy Giuliani said that when he heard Obama's statement about the capital gains tax, his jaw dropped.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUfo-RxkXA8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZqKdkucZ1w

when was the last time the bho told the truth???????????????

[cptjohnstone]

Originally Posted by The2Dogs

Doove and most Democrats do not understand business or the tax code.
It is like the whines that some corporations dont pay taxes.
They fail to grasp the concept that the taxes are paid by the owners of the coporations ore often than not.

careful now, if we run doofus off, we will only af to bitch about but we would not know because everybody has him on the ignore list:jawdrop :

[CuteOldGuy]

Trust me, Cap'n, Doofe isn't even near the top of the list of unthinking assholes here. There will be plenty left to bitch about after little Doofie leaves.

[LovingKayla]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

You're stupidity, Doofe, is getting less and less creative.

He was creative at one point? When?