Let's Get It Straight - Just Who Are the Real Fascists?

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by chefnerd

Perhaps you should go a little deeper into your research. Wikipedia is not always known as the know all knowledge although it can be useful. Britt did not just MAKE THIS UP. It is a comparison of the common characteristics of the following governments"
Hitler (Germany)
Mussolini (Italy)
Franco (Spain)
Salazar (Portugal).
Papadopodoulos (Greece).
Pinochet (Chile)
Suharto (Indonesia)
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/54/54_48-49.pdf

Trump is an unsuccessful, "would be" autocrat, who never in a million years could overcome American Democratic traditions and become a real autocrat. Don't confuse that with a fascist.

[chefnerd]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Trump is an unsuccessful, "would be" autocrat, who never in a million years could overcome American Democratic traditions and become a real autocrat. Don't confuse that with a fascist.

Agreed, because he is too stupid and lazy. However the threat is not about the candidate. As in this case it is about the hard core extremists supporting him who know that they can harness the unthinking idiots who will do anything, legal or not to promote their unholy god

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Word games? I am not the one that said the federal courthouse was taken over. Ya know, because it wasn’t. The people that keep making these statements can just admit the lied or was misinformed or whatever. But sadly y’all are incapable of just admitting that you get bad information and keep spreading lie after lie. If it’s not a lie and is true, that woulda been big news and as such a link would be easy to find.

No one took over a federal courthouse or any federal building for that matter, unless you’re referring to Jan 6 because there they took over the building with force. But that’s a totally different discussion.

Word games may or may not be accurate depending on what you actually know about the situation. Here's what I know.
The federal courthouse in Portland was protested daily for aprox 100 days and nights straight. Protestors were held back by barricades and fencing and during the daytime and all was calm. I do not know if the public had access to the building or not during that time. Nightime protests took on an entirely different timbre however with the barricades and fences being assaulted nightly with tear gas and near artilery grade fireworks. Attacks on the building caused the building to be shut down, essentially controlling access from without through violence and intimidation. I suppose you can say they didn't truly occupy the building since they weren't inside but they were certainly in charge of who came and went.
So the question is, did you know any of that? If you did not then you are woefully lacking any knowledge of the episode. A simple Google search would do you wonders. If you did know it then you're at least being coy with your language if not outrightly sophist. Neither of those seem to me to be debating in good faith, though. Of course good faith arguing isn't something lawyers are known for.

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by chefnerd

Perhaps you should go a little deeper into your research. Wikipedia is not always known as the know all knowledge although it can be useful. Britt did not just MAKE THIS UP. It is a comparison of the common characteristics of the following governments"
Hitler (Germany)
Mussolini (Italy)
Franco (Spain)
Salazar (Portugal).
Papadopodoulos (Greece).
Pinochet (Chile)
Suharto (Indonesia)
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/54/54_48-49.pdf

Good lord, do you really think that list some sort of scholarship?
You can take every one of those bullet points and give an example of how the Dems are currently engaging in them all.

Hey Tiny, I'll split it with you!

[chefnerd]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Good lord, do you really think that list some sort of scholarship?
You can take every one of those bullet points and give an example of how the Dems are currently engaging in them all.

Hey Tiny, I'll split it with you!

Really? Then why don't you point that out

[LayingPipe]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

The barricade was report by tweets to a high school newspaper.

"Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" Groucho Marx

Department of Homeland Security Report
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/22/...ad-out-july-22

[offshoredrilling]

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Good lord, do you really think that list some sort of scholarship?
You can take every one of those bullet points and give an example of how the Dems are currently engaging in them all.

Hey Tiny, I'll split it with you!

was it not Biden that said 'You need F-15s and maybe some nuclear..." in a way he would use within the US ????

[winn dixie]

Originally Posted by offshoredrilling

was it not Biden that said 'You need F-15s and maybe some nuclear..." in a way he would use within the US ????

yep and aoc wants brain washing camps. To reprogram folks.
yep aoc said that

Dat be real fascism

[1blackman1]

Originally Posted by LayingPipe

"Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?" Groucho Marx

Department of Homeland Security Report
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/22/...ad-out-july-22

Does it say what was purported to have happened? Was the courthouse “taken over”?

So they attacked the outside of the building with bricks bats and fireworks. I’ll say like I said in the Jan 6 context, the federal police should have defended the building with deadly force in defense of themselves and others. See, unlike all the wackos on the right on this site, I’m consistent in my position regardless of whom it benefits.

Nonetheless, the federal courthouse was not taken over, which was the original assertion, which was a lie or overexaggeration or whatever y’all want to call it. Y’all’s position has moved from “taken over” to attacked. Those are significantly different.

[Salty Again]

.... Is that the Lance Armstrong version of "backpedaling"
or didja create that on yer-own? ...

Where were you calling for "federal police" at the time??
I'm looking back at the olde posts....

#### Salty

[Salty Again]

... See? ... All those Antifa and BLM "protests" - where they
crash windows and steal things while vandalising the shoppes.

Where they set cars and buildings a-fire - take over city blocks
with "chop zones"... Attack churches and set the police houses
a-fire also... -- -- Those are the TRUE Fascists.

The American people believe that these I described
are the real Destroyers of Democracy.

Not people protesting at the Capitol to
complain about the rigging of the election.

### Salty

[1blackman1]

Read back to my old posts. You might be surprised. I said then if people break the law, arrest and charge them. But I suspect you won’t read anything. You’ll just assume.

I’m not gonna call you dumb Salty, but I’ll say maybe your English comprehension is lacking. The only backpedaling in this thread is the folks that went from “taken over” to “attacked”.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by chefnerd

Hitler (Germany)
Mussolini (Italy)
Franco (Spain)
Salazar (Portugal).
Papadopodoulos (Greece).
Pinochet (Chile)
Suharto (Indonesia)
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/54/54_48-49.pdf

Originally Posted by Ducbutter

Good lord, do you really think that list some sort of scholarship?
You can take every one of those bullet points and give an example of how the Dems are currently engaging in them all.

Hey Tiny, I'll split it with you!

Well, darn it Ducbutter, I never could get chefnerd's link to work. OK, yeah, I'll take the easy ones.

1. Augusto Pinochet - Now this one is tricky. Pinochet brought in libertarian economists from the University Chicago who transformed the economy and made Chile the most prosperous country in South America. But his regime also killed 2280 leftist protestors. That's what he's gone down in history for.

Well, prominent Democrat WTF, and some other Democrats, have proposed doing exactly the same thing:

Originally Posted by WTF

And yet had this podunk and his followers succeeded, the duely elected President would not have been sworn in on January 20 2020.

His crime is a tad bigger than you make it out to be.

Had the 9/11 highjackers been caught at the terminal....just think how different things would be. I actually think all that stormed the Capitol should be shot.

There were an estimated 2000 to 2500 trespassers at the Capitol on January 6. So coincidentally or not, WTF and like minded Democrats would waste about as many protestors from this one incident as Pinochet did during his career as a military dictator. We're going to have to start calling him W. T. "Augusto Pinochet" F. It has a nice ring to it.

2. Suharto - Suharto was one of the fathers of crony capitalism and kleptocracy. The best comparison is to a Democrat of a slightly earlier era, Lyndon Baines Johnson. Johnson started politics as a destitute school teacher and emerged as one of the wealthiest individuals in central Texas, thanks to favors from the crooked businessmen he favored. His original sugar daddy was George Brown, of Brown & Root fame. Many in the Texas oil business have a soft spot for Lyndon. He made many an oilman's fortune back when tax rates on the highest earners were 90%+. What was the best way to shelter income from the tax man back then? Drill for oil! And Lyndon was there with the generous percentage depletion allowance to make sure the oilmen could find plenty of investors.

3. Mussolini - Mussolini was actually a closet Communist, who figured the world hadn't quite reached the stage called for in Marxist theory when you abandon the capitalists for collective ownership. Like Hitler, below, he believed that man and private enterprise existed for the aggrandizement of government. The perfect analogy for Mussolini is Bernie Sanders. Sanders started out a fan of the Soviet Union and Castro, and later was sympathetic to Hugo Chavez. But he changed with with times. He doesn't emphasize collective ownership (Communism) as much as he used to. Now, like his economic advisors Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez, just wants to milk the people and the private sector for every dime he can, to fund the enlargement of our inefficient federal government.

4. Hitler - Hitler shared a lot of characteristics with Mussolini and Bernie Sanders, as described in "3" above. The way national socialism works, the people and the businesses exist for the benefit of the government, instead of the other way around. There's one additional item to add though. Like Bernie and his war on the billionaire class, Hitler waged a war on the merchant class of Germany. He started out taking all the capital and possessions from the Jews and distributing them to the people (Power to the People!). So anyway Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and AOC, all great class warriors, are good analogies for Herr Hitler. Their wealth taxes and confiscatory income taxes aren't as bad as the gas chamber, but they're a damn good way to cut all those billionaires down to size. And to make sure America doesn't create new world beating companies, like Amazon, Walmart, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc.

OK, I left the hard ones for you Ducbutter!

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by 1blackman1

Does it say what was purported to have happened? Was the courthouse “taken over”?

So they attacked the outside of the building with bricks bats and fireworks. I’ll say like I said in the Jan 6 context, the federal police should have defended the building with deadly force in defense of themselves and others. See, unlike all the wackos on the right on this site, I’m consistent in my position regardless of whom it benefits.

Nonetheless, the federal courthouse was not taken over, which was the original assertion, which was a lie or overexaggeration or whatever y’all want to call it. Y’all’s position has moved from “taken over” to attacked. Those are significantly different.

Honestly, there's just so much wrong with the above. To begin with, you are arguing about an event you were completely unaware of until a couple of hours ago. And you're still doing it! Please tell us that you go to court better prepared.

You make lite of the weapons used by the Portland rioters, but tell us, what weapons did the capitol rioters use?

The Portland rioters didn't breach the courthouse but they contolled access from outside for as long or longer period of time every night for 100 nights consecutively than the capitol rioters. As for the use of deadly force, Trump offered to send federal troops but was rebuffed by Portland and Oregon officials.

I think the two incedents are more analogous than you are willing to admit but how could you know that when you're so abjectly ignorant on 1/2 of the issue?

I'll point out that my previous post in this thread was my first so my position is perfectly consistent. And personally, I don't think you have any business commenting on the mental accuity of anyone on this board.

[Ducbutter]

Originally Posted by Tiny

Well, darn it Ducbutter, I never could get chefnerd's link to work. OK, yeah, I'll take the easy ones.

1. Augusto Pinochet - Now this one is tricky. Pinochet brought in libertarian economists from the University Chicago who transformed the economy and made Chile the most prosperous country in South America. But his regime also killed 2280 leftist protestors. That's what he's gone down in history for.

Well, prominent Democrat WTF, and some other Democrats, have proposed doing exactly the same thing:




There were an estimated 2000 to 2500 trespassers at the Capitol on January 6. So coincidentally or not, WTF and like minded Democrats would waste about as many protestors from this one incident as Pinochet did during his career as a military dictator. We're going to have to start calling him W. T. "Augusto Pinochet" F. It has a nice ring to it.

2. Suharto - Suharto was one of the fathers of crony capitalism and kleptocracy. The best comparison is to a Democrat of a slightly earlier era, Lyndon Baines Johnson. Johnson started politics as a destitute school teacher and emerged as one of the wealthiest individuals in central Texas, thanks to favors from the crooked businessmen he favored. His original sugar daddy was George Brown, of Brown & Root fame. Many in the Texas oil business have a soft spot for Lyndon. He made many an oilman's fortune back when tax rates on the highest earners were 90%+. What was the best way to shelter income from the tax man back then? Drill for oil! And Lyndon was there with the generous percentage depletion allowance to make sure the oilmen could find plenty of investors.

3. Mussolini - Mussolini was actually a closet Communist, who figured the world hadn't quite reached the stage called for in Marxist theory when you abandon the capitalists for collective ownership. Like Hitler, below, he believed that man and private enterprise existed for the aggrandizement of government. The perfect analogy for Mussolini is Bernie Sanders. Sanders started out a fan of the Soviet Union and Castro, and later was sympathetic to Hugo Chavez. But he changed with with times. He doesn't emphasize collective ownership (Communism) as much as he used to. Now, like his economic advisors Gabriel Zucman and Emmanuel Saez, just wants to milk the people and the private sector for every dime he can, to fund the enlargement of our inefficient federal government.

4. Hitler - Hitler shared a lot of characteristics with Mussolini and Bernie Sanders, as described in "3" above. The way national socialism works, the people and the businesses exist for the benefit of the government, instead of the other way around. There's one additional item to add though. Like Bernie and his war on the billionaire class, Hitler waged a war on the merchant class of Germany. He started out taking all the capital and possessions from the Jews and distributing them to the people (Power to the People!). So anyway Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and AOC, all great class warriors, are good analogies for Herr Hitler. Their wealth taxes and confiscatory income taxes aren't as bad as the gas chamber, but they're a damn good way to cut all those billionaires down to size. And to make sure America doesn't create new world beating companies, like Amazon, Walmart, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc.

OK, I left the hard ones for you Ducbutter!

Ha! Well done, though not exactly what I meant. I'll get back to you later. I can only take so much at a time.