Yet another Obama lie

[flghtr65]

Originally Posted by rodog44

Who the fuck are you or the gov. to tell people what they an buy. Obama lied to get it passed and then had to keep on lying to get reelected. He knew if he told the truth he would never be reelected because a whole bunch of dems. would have bailed on him. My greatest hope is to live long enough to see all you liberal fuckers eat your words. When this is all over lilberism will be as dead as fried cicken.

Romneycare in Mass tells you what the buy. Romeycare has the same individual mandate to purchase health insurance that Obamacare has. BTW, when an uninsured sick person goes to the emergency room to get treated, who is paying for his/her treatment? The taxpayer.

[NiceGuy53]

Originally Posted by flghtr65

Romneycare in Mass tells you what the buy. Romeycare has the same individual mandate to purchase health insurance that Obamacare has. BTW, when an uninsured sick person goes to the emergency room to get treated, who is paying for his/her treatment? The taxpayer.

You keep harping on the false assumption that under Obamacare, there will be no uninsured going to the emergency room and therefore no cost to the taxpayer. The CBO still estimates that there will be about 30 million uninsured under Obamacare. The American taxpayer will still be on the hook for these estimated 30 million uninsured. And when the young healthy uninsured decide not to enroll in Obamacare and just pay a small penalty instead (assuming that the IRS can legally collect this penalty), everyone's health insurance premuims will skyrocket to cover the costs.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

Actually more and more information is coming out demonstrating that the White House and many top democrats KNEW that people would lose their health insurance and Obama was lying about it. There! Does that answer the OP?

And more and more information is coming out indicating that Obamacare is not, in fact, the government takeover of healthcare that the right wing was saying it was in its lies to the American public. And they KNEW it at the time.

[flghtr65]

Originally Posted by NiceGuy53

You keep harping on the false assumption that under Obamacare, there will be no uninsured going to the emergency room and therefore no cost to the taxpayer. The CBO still estimates that there will be about 30 million uninsured under Obamacare. The American taxpayer will still be on the hook for these estimated 30 million uninsured. And when the young healthy uninsured decide not to enroll in Obamacare and just pay a small penalty instead (assuming that the IRS can legally collect this penalty), everyone's health insurance premuims will skyrocket to cover the costs.

NiceGuy53, I have never disputed the CBO estimate that 30 million will still be uninsured. The CBO also estimates that 20 million will be insured by Obamacare. So here is the math.
50 million uninsured - 20 million insured = 30 million still uninsured. Having 20 million more insured is better than having 50 plus million uninsured. We are talking about the individual market about 20 percent of the population will be affected by Obamacare. Prices in the Group market (employer based health insurance) are not changing significantly. The fine is what $700? The premium for a 27 year old in Dallas who makes $25,000 is $80 a month, which would be $960 a year. So when a young person decides not to pay, the fine is pretty close to what his premium would be. If 20 million people get health insurance from the Obamacare exchanges, this would be better that what we have now. Having 50 plus million people uninsured is the wrong way to go. This is why the total cost of health care keeps increasing. In the individual market, before Obamacare health insurance companies would deny covering people with pre-existing conditions. In the link below is an example of a woman being denied coverage because she was overweight. Her husband is self employed, runs a tree cutting business and they can't get health insurance because of pre-existing conditions. Keep in mind that not all health insurance companies are selling policies in the government exchanges. For example, Aetna and United Health Care are not selling policies in the government exchanges. They don't want to take on the risk of insuring unhealthy people. They will just continue to sell health insurance in group market.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/26/health...rticle_sidebar

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Where the ones who have bern paying the external costs when people buy substandard policies. That's who we are to tell people what to buy. And we're sick of paying for other people's shit.

You need to read the law before speaking. Obamacare does not even attempt to address external costs that the hospitals pass on to their paying customers. The inflated costs do not come from people with insurance that may not cover something, if it isn't covered and it's not an emergency, they simply don't do the procedure.

The inflated costs come from everyone without insurance going to the ER for free healthcare, including the 15 million illegal aliens living here, and the one's sneaking in, and their voting relatives. Which is why they didn't address it, duh.

Everyone needs to apply some simple logic and economics and you will see why Obamacare will fail: You can't have affordable healthcare insurance, if you don't have affordable healthcare costs. They are directly and proportionally related. Obamacare does not require in any way whatsoever that healthcare companies lower their costs or even their profit margins. The day you see a law that let's the healthcare industry choose not to treat non-life threatening illnesses for free, is the day you will see healthcare costs go down. Until then, keep focusing on the insurance companies and keep scratching your heads as to why your costs keep going up.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by flghtr65

NiceGuy53, I have never disputed the CBO estimate that 30 million will still be uninsured. The CBO also estimates that 20 million will be insured by Obamacare. So here is the math.
50 million uninsured - 20 million insured = 30 million still uninsured. Having 20 million more insured is better than having 50 plus million uninsured. We are talking about the individual market about 20 percent of the population will be affected by Obamacare. Prices in the Group market (employer based health insurance) are not changing significantly. The fine is what $700? The premium for a 27 year old in Dallas who makes $25,000 is $80 a month, which would be $960 a year. So when a young person decides not to pay, the fine is pretty close to what his premium would be. If 20 million people get health insurance from the Obamacare exchanges, this would be better that what we have now. Having 50 plus million people uninsured is the wrong way to go. This is why the total cost of health care keeps increasing. In the individual market, before Obamacare health insurance companies would deny covering people with pre-existing conditions. In the link below is an example of a woman being denied coverage because she was overweight. Her husband is self employed, runs a tree cutting business and they can't get health insurance because of pre-existing conditions. Keep in mind that not all health insurance companies are selling policies in the government exchanges. For example, Aetna and United Health Care are not selling policies in the government exchanges. They don't want to take on the risk of insuring unhealthy people. They will just continue to sell health insurance in group market.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/26/health...rticle_sidebar

I think you are assuming falsely that hospitals just have floors of beds waiting on patients to fill them. They do not. And the biggest assumption you completely fail to understand is that there are two mechanisms involved in the policies bought through the exchanges you are speaking of. One, is how much people pay to the insurance companies, which is advertised and you understand, but the other, which you do not understand and is under gag order by the prez, is how much these policies pay the healthcare providers. When you do a little research on what the plan you describe actually pays a healthcare provider, unless you are a die hard liberal to the end, you will quickly realize where your theory falls on it's face. These plans don't even pay enough to keep the lights on and healthcare providers are not going to want to see them, same as Medicaid patients.
Surely you didn't think the bronze plans pay the same amount per procedure to healthcare providers, as say, a quality, private insurance plan employers provide their employees did you?

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by flghtr65

Romneycare in Mass tells you what the buy. Romeycare has the same individual mandate to purchase health insurance that Obamacare has. BTW, when an uninsured sick person goes to the emergency room to get treated, who is paying for his/her treatment? The taxpayer.

If my state says I have to buy insurance, so be it. My Federal government can not force me, because.....It's not constitutional...duh

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by Doove

And more and more information is coming out indicating that Obamacare is not, in fact, the government takeover of healthcare that the right wing was saying it was in its lies to the American public. And they KNEW it at the time.

donk

[WTF]

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

If my state says I have to buy insurance, so be it. My Federal government can not force me, because.....It's not constitutional...duh

So if your state says you need to suck dicks you will gladly do so because it is constitutional?



You do realize that the Federal government is not making you buy insurance. You understand that right?

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

....
Surely you didn't think the bronze plans pay the same amount per procedure to healthcare providers, as say, a quality, private insurance plan employers provide their employees did you?

nwa,

I don't think most Americans know that the Federal Govt sets the price it will pay for medical procedures and drugs via MC/MA and Plan D and that private insurers may work off that number.

I get my mothers medical bills and am amazed. Yesterday I received a $10,000 bill for a one day emergency room visit. She had MC and supplemental insurance and plan D. Medicare and Supp covered about $1000 and she owed $0.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by WTF

So if your state says you need to suck dicks you will gladly do so because it is constitutional?



You do realize that the Federal government is not making you buy insurance. You understand that right?

Your analogy is stupid. Stealing 2.5% of my income is theft and will not be tolerated for long.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

donk

How not clever.

[gnadfly]

How donk.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

How donk.

I'm not surprised that that's the best you got.

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by Doove

I'm not surprised that that's the best you got.

Is that a "Donkism"?