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Old 06-26-2011, 02:25 AM   #61
I B Hankering
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Originally Posted by Little Stevie View Post
It really doesn't matter because it is in the records we research today. You continue to refuse to acknowledge my point that the verbiage simply reflects the separation of Church and State in the Constitution and that is as it should be - No establishment of a state religion or of state Christianity.
And you refuse to see the assignation of religious matters via the 10th Amendment to the states. The Constitution established a "federal system" of government.

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Originally Posted by Little Stevie View Post
I assert that you have no way of knowing if it was a closet atheist, a disgruntled employee, a middle management producer or even someone trying to sully NBC's reputation. For all you know, it could have been the other Christian Bogeyman, a Muslim "anchor editor" ala that moron L*ouie G*ohmert (R-TX). LOL - You simply assume and attempt to defend a theory you have no way of proving!
Your theory is equally “unprovable.” So, I'll stick with my theory.

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You far underrate the IQ's of NBC upper tier production personnel and I also doubt they only hire "non-76 percenters" to work there!
Which makes their excuse that it was an “accident” all the more untenable.

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Originally Posted by Little Stevie View Post
Please source those assertions. Who has removed morality? Maybe they just disagree with "Fundie" morality. So do I but not all morality.
Inside American Education. Thomas Sowell.

The Schools We Need: And Why We Don't Have Them. E.D. Hirsch.

The Closing of the American Mind. Allan Bloom.


A Nation at Risk


Findings Regarding Content
By content we mean the very "stuff" of education, the curriculum. Because of our concern about the curriculum, the Commission examined patterns of courses high school students took in 1964-69 compared with course patterns in 1976-81. On the basis of these analyses we conclude:
• Secondary school curricula have been homogenized, diluted, and diffused to the point that they no longer have a central purpose. In effect, we have a cafeteria style curriculum in which the appetizers and desserts can easily be mistaken for the main courses. Students have migrated from vocational and college preparatory programs to "general track" courses in large numbers. The proportion of students taking a general program of study has increased from 12 percent in 1964 to 42 percent in 1979.
• This curricular smorgasbord, combined with extensive student choice, explains a great deal about where we find ourselves today. We offer intermediate algebra, but only 31 percent of our recent high school graduates complete it; we offer French I, but only 13 percent complete it; and we offer geography, but only 16 percent complete it. Calculus is available in schools enrolling about 60 percent of all students, but only 6 percent of all students complete it.
• Twenty-five percent of the credits earned by general track high school students are in physical and health education, work experience outside the school, remedial English and mathematics, and personal service and development courses, such as training for adulthood and marriage.
Findings Regarding Expectations
We define expectations in terms of the level of knowledge, abilities, and skills school
and college graduates should possess. They also refer to the time, hard work, behavior,
self-discipline, and motivation that are essential for high student achievement. Such
expectations are expressed to students in several different ways:
• by grades, which reflect the degree to which students demonstrate their mastery of subject matter;
• through high school and college graduation requirements, which tell students which subjects are most important;
• by the presence or absence of rigorous examinations requiring students to demonstrate their mastery of content and skill before receiving a diploma or a degree;
• by college admissions requirements, which reinforce high school standards; and
• by the difficulty of the subject matter students confront in their texts and assigned readings.
Our analyses in each of these areas indicate notable deficiencies:
• The amount of homework for high school seniors has decreased (two-thirds report less than 1 hour a night) and grades have risen as average student achievement has been declining.

http://teachertenure.procon.org/sour...april-1983.pdf

The transcript study showed that, compared with students in similar studies going back to 1990, the 2005 graduates had racked up more high school credits, had taken more college preparatory classes and had strikingly higher grade-point averages. The average GPA rose from 2.68 in 1990 to 2.98 in 2005.

But the standardized test results showed that 12th-grade reading scores have been dropping since 1992, casting doubt on what students are learning in those college prep classes.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...imilar-studies

[T]here was also a growing reaction against organized religion and the belief in a spiritual dimension of human existence. Intellectual leaders and writers were deeply influenced by the ideas of the English naturalist Charles Darwin, the German political philosopher Karl Marx, the Austrian neurologist and founder of psychoanalysis Sigmund Freud, and the German philosopher and poet Friedrich Nietzsche, and by a growing strict interpretation of the separation of church and state doctrine. This trend increased after World War II and was further intensified by what appeared to be the large cracks in the nation's moral consensus in the late 1960s. Since for so many Americans the strongest roots of moral truths reside in their religious beliefs, educators and others became wary of using the schools for moral education. More and more this was seen to be the province of the family and the church. Some educators became proponents of "value-free" schooling, ignoring the fact that it is impossible to create a school devoid of ethical issues, lessons, and controversies.

During the last quarter of the twentieth century, as many schools attempted to ignore the moral dimension of schooling, three things happened: Achievement scores began to decline, discipline and behavior problems increased.

http://education.stateuniversity.com...Education.html

The field of psychology has very much taken over the public school system, and is doing its best to take over private schools. Through covert tactics, extensive lobbying efforts, and setting government mandated "educational standards", even home-schooling may have to conform to the dictates of psychologists.

Before the advent of psychology into the schools, education involved learning to read, acquiring mental skills, and developing the ability to think conceptually. The idea behind traditional education was to prepare the student with as wide and strong a base as possible for future success and contribution in the world. The modern psychologists have a different idea, and this involves ensuring the students possess the correct beliefs, attitudes and behaviors. The attention in education has gone from cognitive skills and effective thinking ability, to affective things, such as how the student feels, what he believes and what attitudes he has. This is why students perform worse on standardized tests today that gauge thinking ability and cognitive skills compared to 25 or 50 years ago.

http://www.sntp.net/education/education.htm

Confronted with this dismal record, the educationist establishment relies on a grab bag of excuses and rationalizations. . . They blame everything except themselves and their own methods - which are the true source of the failures. . . Education is failing in the United States because the practices and theories it is based upon are incorrect, and effectively sabotage the students' learning ability.

http://www.sntp.net/education/education_stats.htm

What happened to student achievement in those places where the push for teacher organization was most successful most quickly and those states where the legislatures were the most receptive to union pressures for things like the right to strike? The broad answer is that it tended to deteriorate more than average in those areas where the early success of these union efforts was most pronounced.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...e_skin;content

In the 1970s, activists bent on such diverse causes as environmentalism, humanism, spiritualism, and even socialism began to target the school curriculum. They produced all sorts of programs, handbooks, textbooks, and other materials, and used political influence to have these adopted as part of the school day in many jurisdictions. Meanwhile, America’s developmental psychologists and early childhood experts, deep in their environmentalist (in the sense of non-genetic) phase, got the attention of educators and political leaders. They argued that formal education should be supplemented with special counseling and self-esteem programs, that formal education should be extended into the preschool years, and that the federal government should be involved in funding these early-intervention and compensatory education programs. Policy-makers believed them. So we now have Chapter 1, Head Start, in-school counselors, and other “innovations,” the usefulness of which is now in great doubt.
When every call for fundamental change in American education is rebutted not by arguments about student achievement but by arguments focusing on race, class, social mixing, and other social concerns, it is difficult to imagine real progress. When teachers spend much of their day filling out forms, teaching quasi-academic subjects mandated from above, and boosting student self-esteem (as contrasted with serf-respect, which is earned rather than worked up), learning is difficult if not impossible.

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/colu...lic-education/

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Originally Posted by Little Stevie View Post
Your example forgets that there are other nations and cultures that tend to be peaceful and generally even more tranquil than the United States even when other religions or custom form the basis of directing their moral compass.
I cannot think of any significant nation or culture that has not under gone some period of prolonged, violent conflict. Please provide two or three examples if you will.
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:31 AM   #62
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....
See, we see things just alike yet so differently.

We agree that NBC can do wtf they want and we totally disagree on this being chickenshit or not or better stated , just wtf is chickenshit and what isn't.
It was chickenshit because it served no purpose, except to stir shit in a venue which shouldn't have any political or theological views petitioned! *Whether you or I care for the excluded verbage or not, doesn't really matter... it has become the generally accepted version by the majority for the last 57 years. * It was an "overt" PC statement which only stirred shit... because they could... and they did. * Good for them... I wasn't necessarily offended... but I certainly wasn't impressed, either! * Tell me if I'm wrong... but by your reaction, I take it, you were impressed.

The ridiculous sillyness of the whole thing had no place in the celebration of the U.S. Open.... just my opinion...
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Old 06-26-2011, 06:57 AM   #63
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It was an "overt" PC statement which only stirred shit... because they could... and they did. * Good for them... I wasn't necessarily offended... but I certainly wasn't impressed, either! * Tell me if I'm wrong... but by your reaction, I take it, you were impressed.

The ridiculous sillyness of the whole thing had no place in the celebration of the U.S. Open.... just my opinion...
All this talk about political correctness ignores the simple fact that citing the pledge in itself was politically incorrect. With all the foreign born players participating (including the winner), playing the pledge at the beginning of the telecast is something i would expect from some right wing whacko making the decisions. Not a left leaning person.

No complaints about that, though, eh whirlaway?
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Old 06-26-2011, 07:04 AM   #64
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The rant of an anti-American leftie. He thinks NBC showcasing the Pledge of Allegiance (with or without the NBC edits) in a venue with international players is wrong. This kind of thinking is prevalent among the American left and unfortunatley has leaked into the Obama administration. And was probably the exact same thinking that was in the NBC edit room on Open Sunday.

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All this talk about political correctness ignores the simple fact that citing the pledge in itself was politically incorrect.
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Old 06-26-2011, 02:56 PM   #65
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I did, I switch to Fox News! fair and balanced

LINK I will google it tomorrow
Oh snap! This proves there's one born every minute.
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Old 06-26-2011, 03:18 PM   #66
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Default Why do you tink they added "Under God"? Because of idiots like Joseph McCarthy

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It was chickenshit because it served no purpose, except to stir shit in a venue which shouldn't have any political or theological views petitioned! *Whether you or I care for the excluded verbage or not, doesn't really matter... it has become the generally accepted version by the majority for the last 57 years. And what about the norm before that? How did under God get slipped into the orginial if not but by swimming aganist the accepted version? You can't have it both ways. It was an "overt" PC statement which only stirred shit... because they could... and they did. * Good for them... I wasn't necessarily offended... but I certainly wasn't impressed, either! * Tell me if I'm wrong... but by your reaction, I take it, you were impressed.

The ridiculous sillyness of the whole thing had no place in the celebration of the U.S. Open.... just my opinion...I have already agreed with that, just having the little bastards recite the pledge was stupid IMHO in whole or in part.
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All this talk about political correctness ignores the simple fact that citing the pledge in itself was politically incorrect. With all the foreign born players participating (including the winner), playing the pledge at the beginning of the telecast is something i would expect from some right wing whacko making the decisions. Not a left leaning person.

No complaints about that, though, eh whirlaway?
Don't go confusing whirlaway with questions that require thought!



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Originally Posted by Whirlaway View Post
The rant of an anti-American leftie. He thinks NBC showcasing the Pledge of Allegiance (with or without the NBC edits) in a venue with international players is wrong. This kind of thinking is prevalent among the American left and unfortunatley has leaked into the Obama administration. And was probably the exact same thinking that was in the NBC edit room on Open Sunday.

You get the Joe McCarthy medal of suppression!

Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between communistic atheism and Christianity. The modern champions of communism have selected this as the time, and ladies and gentlemen, the chips are down — they are truly down.
- Joseph McCarthy
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Old 06-26-2011, 04:07 PM   #67
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I.B. when I take the time to connect your post to my replies,please have the courtesy to do the same rather that showing my replies WITHOUT the statements to which they are replying. Otherwise, nothing stays in context.

As for your last selection of sources and your dismissal of Head Start and other programs you leave out the changing dynamics caused by economic changes in America - chief of which is that 1992 stats at the 12th grade testing level reflect 1980 or earlier school admission for the tested students.

Look at the giant changes in the number of parents at home interacting with their children after school in the 1950's 1960's and even into the first part of the 1970's and compare that with the percentage of parents at home interacting with their preschool children in the time frame your study reflect (1974-1980 for children aged <1 to <7) - the preschool window for children in the 12th grade 1992 results you quote.

What part does consumerism and corporate influence play in that equation which put women in the workplace and gave them less time during the day with pre-school children?

Anyway, get back to me when you connect my responses to what they responded to like I did for you.

TIA,
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Old 06-27-2011, 08:25 AM   #68
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I.B. when I take the time to connect your post to my replies,please have the courtesy to do the same rather that showing my replies WITHOUT the statements to which they are replying. Otherwise, nothing stays in context.
Au contraire. It took special effort to extract your words from mine, and then place them in speech boxes. And your words are still in red while mine remain in black.
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Old 07-12-2011, 07:43 PM   #69
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They issued a BS "apology" claiming they didn't mean to offend; but never owned up to why they made the deletion.
Are you whiny itty-bitty tittie babies happy now?

And while we're here:

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you are right, they even admitted to giving Obama 3 times the coverage vs McCain and you wonder why people call them the left coast media
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Link?
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Originally Posted by Doove View Post
LINK?
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Originally Posted by cptjohnstone View Post
I did, I switch to Fox News! fair and balanced

LINK I will google it tomorrow
LINK?
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:18 PM   #70
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McCain lost--not because NBC didn't cover him (they did)--but because he came across as a cranky old man (remember the faces he made during the debates) who had only shallow knowledge of the things he professed great experience with (foreign affairs), and no knowledge whatsoever of other things that others might consider important-remember his tremendous leadership after the Lehman bankruptcy when he wanted to suspend his campaign to lead the Congress to fixing the banking crisis? I do. He got to Washington and couldn't even get the Republicans to follow him.

Oh yeah, there was the issue of his un-vetted Vice-Presidential candidate. Remember when Tina Fey did her first Sarah Palin skit? She just repeated the words that Sarah Palin herself had said during the interview with Katie Couric! It wasn't even satire! It was pure hilarity in its own right. Unless the subject happened to be running for high public office. Then, not so funny.

No, John McCain lost because he was temperamentally unsuited for the job and his VP was seemingly only qualified for spending other peoples' money to clothe her burgeoning family. However much time NBC put McCain on the air was too much. It was painful to watch a guy who had been through so much turn out to be so little.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:34 PM   #71
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Are you whiny itty-bitty tittie babies happy now?
FUCK Congress!!
Who gives a flying fuck about Congress?

They should apologize to the PGA for taking attention away from what was really! important... Golf and the U.S. Open!!
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:21 PM   #72
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Are you whiny itty-bitty tittie babies happy now?

And while we're here:









LINK?
I did try to find it but nothing came up, let's just say I have a good memory
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:09 AM   #73
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I did try to find it but nothing came up, let's just say I have a good memory
Or maybe a good imagination.
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:29 AM   #74
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the christian religion is suppose to get squashed in the country, at least for awhile.Its already been written down.
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