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The Sandbox - National The Sandbox is a collection of off-topic discussions. Humorous threads, Sports talk, and a wide variety of other topics can be found here.

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Old 03-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #61
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Chavez donated millions to the Haiti relief and sold oil at discounted rates to many other countries.
Yes, and another theory is Venesualian oil is shitty crude not worth much unless it's heavily refined - here in Texas. So, one might say he wasn't selling below spot at a humitarian discount, but rather that was all he could get.

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Because he was not an ally of the United States he has to be cast as some demon????
That's putting it mildly. He HATED and was a sworn enemy of the US.

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Originally Posted by wellendowed1911 View Post
Remember the Shah of Iran- oh the U.S supported him and the Shah makes Chavez look like Mother Teresa- remember we supported OBL and Saddam- and we still supported Saddam after he gassed his own people.
National needs make strange bed fellows. A lot of those decisions is more like enemy of my enemy, necessary for nations, poor decision making.

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I am pretty sure Chavez like anyone else has done his good and his bad- if people want to mourn let them!!!
Good and bad? He and his century old and failed idiology have destroied the economic viability of an entire nation.

I agree, if people want to wax nostalgic about Hugo, let them.
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Old 03-09-2013, 01:56 PM   #62
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National needs make strange bed fellows. A lot of those decisions is more like enemy of my enemy, necessary for nations, poor decision making.

.[/QUOTE]

We were an "ally" of the Soviet Union during WW-2. The man in controle of the Soviet Union at that time, Joseph Stalin, was arguably the most evil human being to ever live. Yes, even more evil than Hitler himself, if you go by the numbers that were simply just murdered on his orders.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:12 PM   #63
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National needs make strange bed fellows. A lot of those decisions is more like enemy of my enemy, necessary for nations, poor decision making.

.
We were an "ally" of the Soviet Union during WW-2. The man in controle of the Soviet Union at that time, Joseph Stalin, was arguably the most evil human being to ever live. Yes, even more evil than Hitler himself, if you go by the numbers that were simply just murdered on his orders.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Who knows how long WWII would have dragged on without our Soviet ally. But liberals like all the failed alliances to be horrific and the good ones are glossed over never to be mentioned again.
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Old 03-09-2013, 02:34 PM   #64
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This Olivia, makes me weak in the knees
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:28 PM   #65
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This Olivia, makes me weak in the knees
He's BAAAAACK!
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Old 03-09-2013, 06:55 PM   #66
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Almost forgot to answer your question......while the example are few and far between , I suppose greed is woven in every culture, including ours.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar

Qatar tops the list of the world's richest countries by Forbes. In 2010, Qatar had the world's highest GDP per capita, while the economy grew by 19%, the fastest in the world. The main drivers for this rapid growth are attributed to ongoing increases in production and exports of liquefied natural gas, oil, petrochemicals, and related industries. Qatar has the second-highest human development in the Arab World after the United Arab Emirates. In 2009, Qatar was the United States’ fifth-largest export market in the Middle East
Not exactly sure what you're getting at here.

Perhaps you just wanted to provide an exception to the generality that oil-related wealth has often looked more like a curse than a blessing(?)

What I said in my previous post (to which your above response was directed) is that vast natural resources often turn out to actually be a liability for a country, since they allow autocratic rulers of various types to pay off supporters and create an illusion of prosperity for the masses. Although Venezuela is a good example of this, there are many others. Often oil-rich nations fail to build the the institutional structure necessary for a prosperous civil society that's not primarily dependent on a single resource. They sometimes look a little like uber-macro versions of spoiled rich kids who have a lot of money dumped in their laps at an early age, and are too lazy to get a good education and build a successful career. If their money runs out, they're fucked.

Qatar has such vast oil wealth relative to the miniscule size of its population that it can get away with things very few other nations can even dream of. Still, that country would be far better off in the very long run if it would begin laying the foundation for an economy built to last. The oil wealth might get them through another generation or two, but that may be about it.

The sad fact is that although Chavez took power in Venezuela just before the dawn of a huge run-up in oil prices, and ruled during a time when the international financial system was flush with cash and eager to lend to resource-rich nations, he and his cronies fucked it up big-time.

Given these enormous advantages, it would have required a concerted effort to wreck the Venezuelan economy in more devastaing fashion than Chavez managed to do. Yet he's actually revered by many poor Venezuelans who have been shut off from even the most basic information.

It's amazing what a cult-of-personality strongman skilled in the art of propaganda can accomplish, especially when propped up by ignorant leftist celebrities.
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:39 PM   #67
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Not exactly sure what you're getting at here.


It's amazing what a cult-of-personality strongman skilled in the art of propaganda can accomplish, especially when propped up by ignorant leftist celebrities.
Or propped up by a mainstream media who are so enamoured with a leader that they forget the primary respossibility of a free press.
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:26 PM   #68
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Or propped up by a mainstream media who are so enamoured with a leader that they forget the primary respossibility of a free press.
If it is a free press than there is no strongman in power.
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:36 PM   #69
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Not exactly sure what you're getting at here.

Perhaps you just wanted to provide an exception to the generality that oil-related wealth has often looked more like a curse than a blessing(?)

.
You asked me to name one, I did.

I can not remember the name of the book I read a few years back that expands on your very points. I'll find it in the next few weeks. It looked at all the trouble nations with oil have gotten into. And if we pull the curtain aside, that is why we went into Iraq at a very heavy cost. My point is that we as victors like to paint a lilly white picture of our form of government.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:32 PM   #70
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This Olivia, makes me weak in the knees
Muah!

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Originally Posted by CaptainMidnight View Post
Not exactly sure what you're getting at here.

Perhaps you just wanted to provide an exception to the generality that oil-related wealth has often looked more like a curse than a blessing(?)
Many call it the Oil Curse. Developing nations are very suseptable, with their lack of operating judical system and their largely uneducated masses, to it.

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It's amazing what a cult-of-personality strongman skilled in the art of propaganda can accomplish, especially when propped up by ignorant leftist celebrities.
It worked here (W and Obama) didn't it. Sad that people are such sheep.

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Or propped up by a mainstream media who are so enamoured with a leader that they forget the primary respossibility of a free press.
Ding Ding! And for his second term and a large part of daddy's first, they're stuck supporting him lest they look like fools. You know they'd be ALL over a Republican president for the drones and the fact that people are still getting killed in the wars.
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