FDR Didn't Envision Social Security As It Is Now

[IIFFOFRDB]

Originally Posted by Doove

If America goes bankrupt, it'll be wasteful spending that will do us in. With defense spending topping the list.

Well at least some of us paid taxes. People that did not can shut the fuck up.

[waverunner234]

It would be nice to get jobs back from China and India and Filipines and Korea and all those other countries that got our jobs now.
That would take care of social security and medicare.

But hey, WAKE UP, those times won't come back.

[waverunner234]

If ECCIE would exist in 5 years from now, I'm very sure that some people who are now totally against me, would agree wit my views for a full 100%.

I'm thinking of Joe Blow, JD, COG (he sometimes does agree with me), Jacky
Well the list is long is I really don't want to call all of them now.

[waverunner234]

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

Well at least some of us paid taxes. People that did not can shut the fuck up.

OH MY GOD

I WILL HATE YOU FOR THE REST OF THE TIME I KNOW YOU.

In ancient times I would very slowly fold my hands around your neck and very slowly press the air out of you.
Until your eyes pop out and tell me that you're dead.

[CuteOldGuy]

Does it really matter if SS is running a surplus if that surplus is denominated in IOUs that will never be repaid? The economy will collapse regardless.

And yes, in a Constitution of limited powers, the authority for a program like Social Security needs to be specific. Read the 9th and 10th amendments. God you people are fools.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Does it really matter if SS is running a surplus if that surplus is denominated in IOUs that will never be repaid? The economy will collapse regardless.

.

It matters if you are trying to blame SS for the interest we are paying on our debt. SS was not responsible for that.

It matters if you want to cut the deficit , you should at least know that defense or rasing taxes are you only options.

Along with expolding healthcare costs in Medicare. But the Tea Party will say you are having Death panels if you touch that.

[CuteOldGuy]

Why don't we fix the debt now, and assess blame later. That way we might be able to avoid the destruction that is coming.

I don't know if you meant cutting or increasing defense, you didn't specify. But cutting defense is absolutely necessary, as is scrapping our current tax system. We will never reach fiscal parity with an income tax.

And if there is a government panel deciding end of life issues, it is government death panel. Why are you afraid to call it what it is?

[dilbert firestorm]

supreme court ruling on SS was largely influenced by the political threat by the FDR administration to pack the the supreme court by adding more judges on bench.

FDR was being bitch slapped bye the supreme court all over the place on many of his policy agendas.

[JD Barleycorn]

Two things for timpage; in the early 19th century Congressman James Madison was asked to vote yes on a bill that would give a stipend to indigent (homeless) sailors of the Revolutionary War. Madison who is credited with being the architect of the US Constitution looked at the bill and he looked at the Constitution. Madison announced that it was a worthy and noble cause...but he could find no where in the Constitution that would allow them to pass such a law.
Up until 1967 all monies collected for Social Security insurance were set aside in their own account. That number you have was, by law, not allowed to be used for anything else including ID. That number was only used to collect, save, and disburse your SS funds but that changed. LBJ and the Congress (both heavily democrat) were being beat up the Vietnam War. They voted to combine the SS money with the general fund which hid the price of the war and gave the Congress more money to spend. This act of embezzlement (remember it belonged to the citizens who put the money in) was maybe the biggest criminal act of the century. I would say that SS become unconstitutional at that point. Before it was the money of the taxpayer after it was the government giving money to the citizens. Money taken from others as the surplus was now gone. There is no money in your accounts. It's gone. Anything you see from SS will come from someone else's pocket.
Chile adopted a retirement fund back in the 1980s (along with three counties in Texas before the window closed forever) where the money donated was the money of the person that it came from. If that person died their heirs got the money. Their money was invested in stocks, bonds, and other municipal funds. In Texas retirees are recieving in excess of $2,000 a month and some $3,000 a month. A person could choose how much above a mandatory minimum that they could contribute like a 401K.
Making sure that all the money belonged to the person making the contributions, allowing the person control over their own money, and getting the money into the market works.
Yes, politics time. George W. Bush tried to get 2% of your 401K contribution into the stock market but the democrats who controlled Congress stopped him. Two years ago they were laughing and saying look at the market. Aren't you glad we stopped Bush? The market is hovering around 13,000. Don't you wish you had gotten in when it was at 9,000? The democrats stopped that.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Jackie S

A good example is the Navy. Most people do not know that as soon as one Aircraft Carrier and Nuclear Submarine is launched, another is started. This keeps a highly skilled workforce on the job, and keeps thousands of vendors busy.

These are the jobs we must keep.

Bail out GM once, you're a socialist. Bail out the defense industry year after year after year after year.....not so much?

[Doove]

Originally Posted by IIFFOFRDB

Well at least some of us paid taxes. People that did not can shut the fuck up.

And for the record, my point here isn't about the need to slash defense spending - that's a separate issue. My point here is that if Joe Bloe and IIFFOFRDB want to spend my tax money on their pet projects, then they need to shut the f up when i spend their tax money on my pet projects.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Why don't we fix the debt now, and assess blame later. That way we might be able to avoid the destruction that is coming.

?

Because Reagan was suppossed to have fixed SS/Medicare. All that did was bring a surplus to SS that we then spent on the Military. Is that what you want to continue to happen. Raise the tax on SS and make it harder to get so the Military can spend the surplus and then the right wing loons will again blame the entitlement programs? When the deficit grows again.

Do you want to keep filling up your gas tank and not find out why it is leaking? Do you want to keep filling it up and have you neighbor(Mr Military) syphon it off and then blame you for driving to to much.

That is wtf has happened. The military has syphoned off SS gas and you want to keep filling up the gas tank for them to continue to steal your gas and then act as if you are driving to god damn much.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I don't know if you meant cutting or increasing defense, you didn't specify. But cutting defense is absolutely necessary, as is scrapping our current tax system. We will never reach fiscal parity with an income tax.

?

We have to cut defense spending. We spend almost what the rest of the world combined spends. Call it what it is, a special interests toy for the GOP.

Yes I agree with you on reforming the tax code. I just do not think it will ever happen unless we are in a crisis like Greece.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

And if there is a government panel deciding end of life issues, it is government death panel. Why are you afraid to call it what it is?

That is a bald face lie.

If you define wtf the government will pay for, that is a way to limit costs that we the people are now paying and bitching about.

The panel does not say you can not have extra insurance that will pay for anything you want.

But you have to cap cost someway.

Call it a Reality Panel for you idiots that like to play Drama Queens. .

[WTF]

Originally Posted by Doove

Bail out GM once, you're a socialist. Bail out the defense industry year after year after year after year.....not so much?

That is lost on the right wing loons...something tells them the Constitutions says we can throw tax money that we do not have to the Defense industry and it is perfectly ok!

I have never seen in the Constitution that you can spend the country broke so Lockheed Martin can stay profitable but they see that somewhere in their Constitution!

[CuteOldGuy]

The Constitution provides for national defense. It does not provide for building an empire and policing the world.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

.
Up until 1967 all monies collected for Social Security insurance were set aside in their own account. That number you have was, by law, not allowed to be used for anything else including ID. That number was only used to collect, save, and disburse your SS funds but that changed. LBJ and the Congress (both heavily democrat) were being beat up the Vietnam War. They voted to combine the SS money with the general fund which hid the price of the war and gave the Congress more money to spend. This act of embezzlement (remember it belonged to the citizens who put the money in) was maybe the biggest criminal act of the century. I would say that SS become unconstitutional at that point. Before it was the money of the taxpayer after it was the government giving money to the citizens. Money taken from others as the surplus was now gone. There is no money in your accounts. It's gone. Anything you see from SS will come from someone else's pocket.
.

JD got one right.

Yea Teach!

Learn this part of history joe blow ...and Kayla. Especially before you two start talking shit about something you are not very versed in!