Coronavirus may have infected 10 times more Americans than reported, CDC says

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by oeb11

meanwhile - One can prepare - ask Your doctor about the need and availability of vaccinations for the common childhood diseases for adults.
if docs don't know now - they will have to learn fast when pandemics occur - and unfortunately it takes time to ramp up vaccine production - even when already approved and produced.

Yes, As an adult I've gotten more than one vaccination for diptheria, tetanus, cholera, Hepatitis A and, most years, the flu. Also yellow fever and HPV one time. Never had a problem with any of them.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Tiny- vaccines are an issue - despite the absolute lack of any evidence to support vaccines causing autism - the facebook generation believes - and likely because they have no experience with the diseases vaccines prevent - such as polio.

They understand not what pediatricians support - that the vaccinations are so many levels of magnitude safer than infectious diseases - which are lethal - and antivaxxers refuse based on "facebook" posts.

They put their own children at risk due to Ignorance.



older people - may have a decreased immune response - especially if afflicted with significant underlying disease processes. Hopefully a vaccine will carry enough immunogenicity to give satisfactory levels of protection to the elderly.

in addition - vaccines are not permanent in all people - even if a person has had the MMR -DPT vaccines as a kid in the 60's - as older people protection may wane. we may be faced with a need to re-vaccinate a large portion of the population if DPST Open Borders/Welfare State becomes reality

The diseases are carried in by DPST supported illegal immigrants.

Think wuhan virus is a problem - wait until Open Borders/welfare state results in the US swamped with migrants infected with every known- and some unknown disease - typhoid, polio, Chagas, Measles, mumps, rubella, and the list goes on.

Think the public health system is a problem in responding now - wait until the combination of antivaxxers and Open Borders/welfare State created by the DPST's causes pandemics of old- time infectious diseases - and their DPST foolishness Will kill millions - probably not a majority of the population as the Medieval black Plague - but very possibly a plurality.



maybe it is about Darwinian selection of the human species.

Perhaps the DPST's will all refuse vaccinations.

we can Hope!






to muy Largo - I heard from an 'unidentified source ' that the NYtimes on Facebook has declared vaccination in America a political problem caused by Trump!





meanwhile - One can prepare - ask Your doctor about the need and availability of vaccinations for the common childhood diseases for adults.
if docs don't know now - they will have to learn fast when pandemics occur - and unfortunately it takes time to ramp up vaccine production - even when already approved and produced.

you mean this OPINION by the totally objective and unbiased NYT...


Could Trump Turn a Vaccine Into a Campaign Stunt?


In a desperate search for a boost, he could release a coronavirus vaccine that has not been shown to be safe and effective as an October surprise.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/08/o...s-vaccine.html


BAHHAAA

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Have you noticed the narrative shift from the much ballyhooed "death" rate (which is flat and falling) to the "new case" rate?

Texas Judge calls it like he sees it. Of course, the Devil is in the details. EX: If your 2nd Cousin knew somebody that had it - you are now recorded as having it or something like that. Worth a read, be sure to notice date of publication. He called it early...

Texas DSHS Issues New Guidance for "Probable" COVID-19 Cases

According to guidance provided by the Texas Department of State Health Services (DSHS), Texas will soon begin implementing a new definition for COVID-19 cases that has the potential to significantly and artificially increase case totals.

Prior to this new guidance, Collin County and Texas have been reporting “confirmed” cases based upon laboratory PCR (polymerase chain reaction) tests which detect SARS-CoV-2 RNA in a clinical specimen.

According to DSHS, Texas will now begin reporting “probable” cases in addition to “confirmed” cases. To qualify as a "probable" COVID-19 case, a person must meet any two of three criteria categories:

• Clinical Criteria
• Epidemiologic Linkage Criteria
• Presumptive Laboratory Evidence Criteria

The problem with this new "probable" definition strategy is in the details....

To summerize; When an opponent is scoring touchdowns often, you need to keep moving the goal posts

this guy Chris Hill is a Republican County Judge in Collin Co. of course he makes sense out of this bullshit


"Second, this new strategy places a counterproductive stress on our public health department resources, as every new “probable” case must be investigated in the same manner as a confirmed case, and contact tracing of “probable” cases will lead to bloated lists of persons under monitoring.

The introduction of this new “probable” case definition does not serve the public good or our public health. This is not the way to keep our communities healthy."
24 May · Subscribers of Collin County in General

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

this guy Chris Hill is a Republican County Judge in Collin Co. of course he makes sense out of this bullshit


"Second, this new strategy places a counterproductive stress on our public health department resources, as every new “probable” case must be investigated in the same manner as a confirmed case, and contact tracing of “probable” cases will lead to bloated lists of persons under monitoring.

The introduction of this new “probable” case definition does not serve the public good or our public health. This is not the way to keep our communities healthy."
24 May · Subscribers of Collin County in General

That doesn't make any sense. Yes the cat's gotten out of the bag in many places because of the failure of the American health care system and government. How do you contact trace and monitor when 10%+ of the population has the disease and you don't have enough people to do the job.

Most of the probables are people with Covid. Some haven't gotten test results back. If you wait around for test results so you know you've got a confirmed case, often 4 or 5 days, the contact tracing isn't going to do nearly as much good as if done earlier. Another category of probables include people who test positive with a test that's not approved by the CDC. But their lab results did show presence of the virus or antibodies to the virus. You want to kick out these people?

It sounds like kicking out the probables is an attempt to cook the books so that the Covid crisis doesn't look as bad as it is. Some misguided Republicans may think this sort of thing will help Trump with the election. They're dead wrong. It's why more people trust Biden than Trump to deal with Covid.

[oeb11]

As i have posted previously - "Contact tracing" is useless now. save the money for better uses.

It is just a DPST tool to deplete resources for the next Public Health Issue.



What matters is whether a person is infectious - antigen testing indicates the presence of virus - and may correlate with infectivity.

antibody testing indicates a body immune response to the Wuhan virus - and may indicate viral shedding is ended and the person is not infectious, and cannot be re-infected by the same viral strain.

reports of "second infections" are either viral recrudescence or infection with a different strain.



Bottom Line - Docs do not know exactly when a person is or is not infectious in the course of a person's disease with Wuhan virus. And tests do have variability as to false negative and false positives.

Contact tracing at this point is a waste of time, resources and money.



Tiny - i do disagree that trump will attempt to "cook the books" on Wuhan virus to affect the election.

Any such order to the CDC will become public pronto - and the marxist stream media will have a field day.

Trump is smarter than that.

Unless, Trump decides he does not want to face another four years of howling Democrats, and cannot just announce he chooses not to run for re-election. Trump, with the White power post, and some other dumb moves lately has not acted like a Man who really wants to be re-elected.

IMHO.
I do not trust Biden to deal with any crisis - he has pre-senile dementia - and will be only a front for the Marxist radicals like bernie and AOC who will control and manipulate him. and use his wife Jill to control and manipulate Joe. Biden is already incompetent for the office of POTUS - IMHO.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Tiny - i do disagree that trump will attempt to "cook the books" on Wuhan virus to affect the election.

Any such order to the CDC will become public pronto - and the marxist stream media will have a field day.

Trump is smarter than that.

Oeb, I worded that part of my post poorly, not really saying what I believe, and am not sure whether you read it before or after I changed it. I agree with you. It's the perception though that hurts. Like when Trump says testing is a double edged sword, and you have people interpret that to mean he wants to reduce testing. Or the only reason we've got more cases is because we've got more testing. Now you've got people, mostly Republicans, saying cut out the probables. All this contributes to the perception, which is different from reality, that the Trump administration is cooking the books. And that's not good for Trump.

My community was doing a good job of contact tracing, with most cases being traced back to people known to be infected or travel. Unfortunately people weren't doing a good job of social distancing and wearing masks, and now the disease is out of control, so that tracing is perhaps as you describe it here. It didn't have to be that way.

[oeb11]

Tiny - in a regimented society like China - where people ae ordered - and have no choice - Contact tracing and anti-viral measures like masks and home imprisonment work because the people either comply or are in camps or shot.
Americans prize their freedom - something the leftist marxists of OBLM and Chop - as examples - are trying their bet to destroy and replace with Venezuela socialism.

Americans are fed with home imnprisonment - for a virus that is very serious in some ppeople - but not the majority.

People are fed up with officials dictating.

and Leftists are using the wuhan virus as an excuse to keep people imprisoned and the economy on a free-fall.

In order to destroy America - as is Deblasio and his antipolice efforts in NYC - to destabilize and destroy representative democracy in favor of the Socialism the colleges and schools have been teaching the younger generation - and so indoctrinated - they believe.



Cops, law and order, capitalism, and democracy are their enemies - to be destroyed.



The battle for freedom may well have long since been lost to the socialists in the educational institutions.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by oeb11

Tiny - in a regimented society like China - where people ae ordered - and have no choice - Contact tracing and anti-viral measures like masks and home imprisonment work because the people either comply or are in camps or shot.
Americans prize their freedom - something the leftist marxists of OBLM and Chop - as examples - are trying their bet to destroy and replace with Venezuela socialism.

Americans are fed with home imnprisonment - for a virus that is very serious in some ppeople - but not the majority.

People are fed up with officials dictating.

and Leftists are using the wuhan virus as an excuse to keep people imprisoned and the economy on a free-fall.

In order to destroy America - as is Deblasio and his antipolice efforts in NYC - to destabilize and destroy representative democracy in favor of the Socialism the colleges and schools have been teaching the younger generation - and so indoctrinated - they believe.



Cops, law and order, capitalism, and democracy are their enemies - to be destroyed.



The battle for freedom may well have long since been lost to the socialists in the educational institutions.

Contact tracing and masks work because people either comply or they're put in concentration camps or shot. Like in most of Western Europe, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore. They're all totalitarian police states. Well, hey, we're still doing a little better on this than Brazil and a few other banana republics.

I give up.

[yitzchak]

I like covid 19

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Let me see if I got the math correct; a number of people are going to die from COVID, but nobody knows how many, although we clearly now know who the most at risk are, with the obvious exception of several Demonicrat governors - who coincidentally are also having "peaceful protest" (** cough, cough** rioting) issues in their jurisdictions. The goal is to still let at least the exact same number die, just over a little longer time, though nobody can say how long, so we don't overwhelm the crematoriums and hospitals with a big bubble.

Meanwhile, we wait for some unknown length of time to maybe have a "voluntary" (anybody taking bets on voluntary?) vaccine and we hope that because we slowed down getting to herd immunity, which is actually the stated goal, that maybe some smallish number less will die, in spite of the current spike in "new cases" like we are currently seeing as the result of the "peaceful protests" (** cough, cough** riots), who - ironically - are least likely to die from COVID in the first place.

In the mean time, we impoverish millions of households and shutter untold numbers of businesses while we reduce incomes to millions and to the local cities, states and Federal governments via tax receipt reductions, which will cause us to continue to print up fiat currencies to prop-up the economy, which our 3-grands down the road will be saddled with while we strip away citizen's rights with subjugation to big brother government's benevolence - for our own good - probably resulting in vast increases in other death causes, such as rioting, suicides, homicides, war and what not, not to forget increased crime, which will likely vastly exceed the number we might save from dieing of COVID, plus the likelihood of a total civil break down while we wait on a "voluntary" vaccine and hope it arrives before the pig flu or some other hither to unknown malady drives down the pike to start a new cycle of all of the above, not to mention that our entire economy is likely to collapse under it's own weight.

Is that really the best plan we can muster?

Originally Posted by oeb11

WYID - masks just slow the virus spread through the population - it is just temporizing . Infection of a majority of the population to herd immunity is inevitable - although what the level of infection is to achieve herd immunity is not known. and may differ in different populations. Virus behavior is different in NY City v montana. for clear reasons.

good result of masks - seems to slow the progression so that the health care system is not overwhelmed by all these cases at once - cases of Wuhan virus are stretched out over time and not dumped all at once on hospitals.

[oeb11]

China introduced the virus from wuhan to amrica - and america - inparticularly the DPST DemLibs and their authortarianism - have done agreat job of prepparing the country for economic collapse under the coming DPST adminsitration with trillions in taxes and spending -,
America is being positioned from within for violent Marxist revolution.

Or, maybe we will simply give in to the terrorists out of "tired of resisting".


When they come for me - I will go down taking as many as possible with me.

I am fully capable of making that number quit high.

regards - DPST's!

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by Why_Yes_I_Do

Let me see if I got the math correct; a number of people are going to die from COVID, but nobody knows how many, although we clearly now know who the most at risk are, with the obvious exception of several Demonicrat governors - who coincidentally are also having "peaceful protest" (** cough, cough** rioting) issues in their jurisdictions. The goal is to still let at least the exact same number die, just over a little longer time, though nobody can say how long, so we don't overwhelm the crematoriums and hospitals with a big bubble.

Meanwhile, we wait for some unknown length of time to maybe have a "voluntary" (anybody taking bets on voluntary?) vaccine and we hope that because we slowed down getting to herd immunity, which is actually the stated goal, that maybe some smallish number less will die, in spite of the current spike in "new cases" like we are currently seeing as the result of the "peaceful protests" (** cough, cough** riots), who - ironically - are least likely to die from COVID in the first place.

In the mean time, we impoverish millions of households and shutter untold numbers of businesses while we reduce incomes to millions and to the local cities, states and Federal governments via tax receipt reductions, which will cause us to continue to print up fiat currencies to prop-up the economy, which our 3-grands down the road will be saddled with while we strip away citizen's rights with subjugation to big brother government's benevolence - for our own good - probably resulting in vast increases in other death causes, such as rioting, suicides, homicides, war and what not, not to forget increased crime, which will likely vastly exceed the number we might save from dieing of COVID, plus the likelihood of a total civil break down while we wait on a "voluntary" vaccine and hope it arrives before the pig flu or some other hither to unknown malady drives down the pike to start a new cycle of all of the above, not to mention that our entire economy is likely to collapse under it's own weight.

Is that really the best plan we can muster?

Maybe. I still have money on "herd immunity" but some socialist Democrats want it as painful as possible so they get their "soylent green new deal" implemented.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by Tiny

T...How do you contact trace and monitor when 10%+ of the population has the disease and you don't have enough people to do the job. ..

Think you missed the forest for looking at the backside of a bug burrowed into the bark of a single tree. Since death rate has failed to garner enough fear as it continues to fall, they cooked up a new way to create, out of thin air, more new cases in addition to the rioter cases, to spread more fear.

[Why_Yes_I_Do]

Originally Posted by oeb11

As i have posted previously - "Contact tracing" is useless now. save the money for better uses.

It is just a DPST tool to deplete resources for the next Public Health Issue...

Try again. What really is the point of contact tracing? When was the last time some government entity came knocking on your door to ask you were you have been and what have you been doing and whom you have seen and where, when you have not been involved in a crime and in fact, no crime has been committed?

[oeb11]

WYID - Please to answer your own Question - "What really is the point of contact tracing?"
Specifically in large viral pandemic outbreaks such as the Wuhan virus.

No need to address contact tracing for those with STD's.

Thank You.