Central Minnesota gets awful cold relying on green energy!!

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by bb1961

Then I guess my moniker should be John C. Holmes

Hey, give me a break, some women prefer small penises, like orientals and hookers. I can give women the Magic Three and you cannot. This is a provider's wet dream, $300, 3 inches, 3 minutes.

[agrarian]

bb said this:
"...this "green energy" has to rely on other sources of energy to prop it up so that it can be use a novelty to make people "feel good" about themselves."

Novelty? Hardly. You may want to dismiss green energy as a novelty, but that's completely unrealistic. I invite you to learn about the hard numbers associated with green energy development. I invite you to learn about which energy sources are growing and which are not.
Despite strong pushback from people like you the movement toward greener energy is underway. Like it or not.

I don't drive an electric car to feel good about myself or show off or whatever. I do so because it's the right thing to do, in my estimation, anyway. I run into people who actually accuse me of looking down at those who don't drive electric cars. Not true. This is a gradual transition, for everyone. I used up my previous (conventional) car before deciding to trade it in. It was a fuel efficient mid-size that got 30 mph on the highway, had 190,000 miles on it, and was purchased new in 2001. I think it's more important to take care of things, and make them last, then to dump them just for the new "green" vehicle. Make sense?

[bb1961]

Originally Posted by agrarian

bb said this:
"...this "green energy" has to rely on other sources of energy to prop it up so that it can be use a novelty to make people "feel good" about themselves."

Novelty? Hardly. You may want to dismiss green energy as a novelty, but that's completely unrealistic. I invite you to learn about the hard numbers associated with green energy development. I invite you to learn about which energy sources are growing and which are not.
Despite strong pushback from people like you the movement toward greener energy is underway. Like it or not.

I don't drive an electric car to feel good about myself or show off or whatever. I do so because it's the right thing to do, in my estimation, anyway. I run into people who actually accuse me of looking down at those who don't drive electric cars. Not true. This is a gradual transition, for everyone.

Right thing to do...don't you think that is a little presumptuous...I love my gas powered car..that isn't the right thing to do??...I sense a little bit of self righteousness...when I do something that is the right thing to do I feel good about it...you don't...again proving my point. Feeling good about the right thing to do is a normal virtue.

Disprove my point...link ANY source that PROVES that green energy TODAY anywhere is viably self sustaining...I hope you know what that means...it ain't happening.
There is no push back from me...I'm a realist...show me a good return on investment and I'm in. Do a little research on how much money the Gumment has dumped into the "green energy"...it is good old boys enriching themselves on the backs of the tax payer...Solyndra ring a bell?? Just one example.

P.S. The electric car without Gumment subsidy and mandates wouldn't be here...period.

[gnadfly]

Originally Posted by agrarian

bb said this:
"...this "green energy" has to rely on other sources of energy to prop it up so that it can be use a novelty to make people "feel good" about themselves."

Novelty? Hardly. You may want to dismiss green energy as a novelty, but that's completely unrealistic. I invite you to learn about the hard numbers associated with green energy development. I invite you to learn about which energy sources are growing and which are not.
Despite strong pushback from people like you the movement toward greener energy is underway. Like it or not.

I don't drive an electric car to feel good about myself or show off or whatever. I do so because it's the right thing to do, in my estimation, anyway. I run into people who actually accuse me of looking down at those who don't drive electric cars. Not true. This is a gradual transition, for everyone. I used up my previous (conventional) car before deciding to trade it in. It was a fuel efficient mid-size that got 30 mph on the highway, had 190,000 miles on it, and was purchased new in 2001. I think it's more important to take care of things, and make them last, then to dump them just for the new "green" vehicle. Make sense?

No.

Again, another long winded post to say "google is your friend."

What's the point of your personal story? That you want to get the most value out of your capital? You and most everyone else.

[Hotrod511]

Wind Energy is Not Green, It’s Just Energy

In physics, energy is not green
If you study physics, which is what you study if you want to know about energy, you’ll learn all about potential energy and kinetic energy, you might learn about heat energy which becomes the study of thermodynamics, there’s so much you need to know and many of us find it extremely interesting, but look all you want through your physics textbook and you won’t see anything about “green energy.” Why not? Because “green energy” isn’t science, it’s politics. There are no scientific laws that apply, no equations you can solve, it’s just a series of ideas you can “believe in,” and if you do, you can call yourself green.

[Tiny]

Originally Posted by Hotrod511

Wind Energy is Not Green, It’s Just Energy

In physics, energy is not green
If you study physics, which is what you study if you want to know about energy, you’ll learn all about potential energy and kinetic energy, you might learn about heat energy which becomes the study of thermodynamics, there’s so much you need to know and many of us find it extremely interesting, but look all you want through your physics textbook and you won’t see anything about “green energy.” Why not? Because “green energy” isn’t science, it’s politics. There are no scientific laws that apply, no equations you can solve, it’s just a series of ideas you can “believe in,” and if you do, you can call yourself green.

This is in reply to your title, Wind Energy is Not Green, It’s Just Energy, and not on topic with your thoughts about the Green Religion. Which I agree with by the way.

Just exactly how are you going to have windmills in a world with zero net carbon emissions? The first consideration, you need to burn coking coal to make steel, which is main material used to construct windmills. Second, how are you going to transport the coking coal and iron ore to the steel plants? And the various other materials and parts to the component manufacturers, final manufacturer, and the site? If it involves going over water, which is what's required right now with existing supply chains, you're probably not going to be able to do it with something like solar powered boats. If you're transporting to an out of the way area, where many windmills are located, you're probably going to want to use diesel trucks. And the biggest question, even if the USA and Western Europe are willing to jump through the hoops to manufacture and install windmills with a minimum of carbon emissions, is there a snowball's chance in hell the rest of the world will?

OK, admittedly windmills are a drop in the bucket in the big picture, but many of the things we take for granted require hydrocarbons and coal as inputs.

In another thread, Agrarian posted about the evils of fracking. However, in West Texas, where there's a lot of fracking and wind, ranchers and farmers, the people most directly effected, are more inclined to favor oil and gas instead of wind. Part of the reason is because they get more money from oil. Part of the reason is because fracking is unlikely to affect groundwater used for drinking or irrigation. Part is because the windmills take up a larger footprint. And part is because they believe the windmills may reduce the value of the land, in excess of the income they'll get from the power company, when they go to sell it.

[rexdutchman]

And Wind energy KILLs birds ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,