"Are prostitutes basically sociopathic?"

[Eve Hennessey]

To understand sex drive, one only need to look to nature. A bull will service as many heifers as he can, day in and day out until all are impregnated. There is an innate unspoken psychology to spread the seed and strengthen the herd.

There is no emotion or bonding on either side.

You wrote, "The supply side of this market is likely to be made up of ppl who form little or no emotional bonds with those they have sex with, as it will be easy for them merely to have sex w/ them and walk away. But they also must be ppl whom others will actually pay for sex."

You couldn't be more wrong in your assumption. The supply side of this equation is extremely capable of feeling, bonding, loving and committing. Her 'need' is about survival at the most basic of levels. She must protect and feed her offspring and since that bull has long since moved on servicing as many others as he can, she is left to fend for herself and her children.

Some numbers for you...

"A 1995 study ... found that people who were sexually abused as children are a whopping 27.7 times more likely than others to be arrested for prostitution." "Many prostitutes say they turned to paid dates as a way to take control of their sexuality after having had it taken from them. Others are forced into prostitution by their abusers—a 2001 study by the Center for Impact Research (CIR) noted that it is common for adults in particularly dire circumstances to force children into prostitution to pay rent or to buy drugs. It starts with childhood sexual abuse by a relative or mother's boyfriend, a lifelong psychological trauma for which they often never receive counseling or treatment."

"Women bear the brunt of prostitution incarcerations. Johns usually face heavy fines—under a Chicago city ordinance they are charged $700 in fines and car impoundment fees—but then, in the vast majority of cases, charges are dropped. Male pimps are likewise rarely arrested."

Summary of research and clinical findings regarding violence in all types of prostitution.

95% of those in prostitution experienced sexual harassment that would be legally actionable in another job.
65% to 95% of those in prostitution were sexually assaulted as children.
70% to 95% were physically assaulted in prostitution.
60% to 75% were raped in prostitution.
75% of those in prostitution have been homeless at some point in their lives.
85% to 95% of those in prostitution want to escape it, but have no other options for survival.
68% of 854 people in strip club, massage, and street prostitution in 9 countries met criteria for
post traumatic stress disorder or PTSD.
80% to 90% of those in prostitution experience verbal abuse and social contempt which adversely affect
them.

The reality is that “Male dominance means that the society creates a pool of prostitutes by any means necessary so that men have what men need to stay on top, to feel big, literally, metaphorically, in every way.”
(Andrea Dworkin, 1997, Prostitution and Male Supremacy, Life and Death, New York: Free Press).

"As recently as 1991, police in a southern California community closed all rape reports made by prostitutes and addicts, placing them in a file stamped “NHI.” The letters stand for the words “No Human Involved.” (Linda Fairstein, 1993, Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape, New York: William Morrow and Co.).

Judges, police and juries often hold bias against sex workers. In Philadelphia, Judge Teresa Carr-Deni called gang-rape of a sex worker at gunpoint “theft of services” and refused to allow prosecution to press aggravated sexual assault charges. In South Africa, police routinely refuse to even pursue rape cases involving sex workers or laugh at victims when victims come forward.

In Norway, several migrant sex workers were evicted from their apartment and had their cash and electronics seized after reporting violent rape by individuals impersonating police. Migrant sex worker victims also face risk of being deported in Canada and the United States if they seek law enforcement help, and while relief from deportation for victims theoretically exists, it is inconsistently applied, high-barrier, quota-capped and temporary, and the process of applying for relief is labor-intensive, lengthy, and biased against imperfect victims. Trans women of color face disproportionate profiling as sex workers and disproportionate police misconduct and sexual assault while in custody. And as a current, all-to-common example of how race, class, and criminalization of drug use and sex work intersect to make women vulnerable to state violence, Oklahoma City police officer Daniel Holtzclaw preyed on 13 black, low-income women, many with criminal records for prostitution and drug use, systematically using threat of arrest and the victims’ vulnerability due to race, class, and status as a sex worker or drug user to assault them.

A recent academic article found that decriminalization is the only framework that would secure human rights for sex workers in South Africa. Across contexts, decriminalization allows sex workers to work together and for street-based sex workers to work in safer areas, factors which increase safety. Decriminalization also increases sex worker access to justice and allows sex workers to report violence to the police without fearing arrest. 70% of sex workers and social service providers in New Zealand say that sex workers were more likely to go to the police after sex work had been decriminalized.

Sex workers sometimes also face structural violence from healthcare and social service professionals, but there are things agencies can to to help fight violence against sex workers. They can train staff to be culturally competent towards sex workers. They can organize bad date lists. They can support policies that increase sex worker access to justice, safety, and human rights. They can support or create space for peer-led efforts for safety and organizing.

Sex workers - even the most vulnerable sex workers - are resilient, and in the face of individual and systematic violence, they support each other in staying safe and fighting back against violence. They organize bad date lists and share information about bad clients. They work together and look out for each other. They serve as safety buddies for each other. And they come together to support other sex workers who have experienced victimization. They conduct their own research. They teach service providers how to serve people in the sex trade without stigma. They educate each other about legal systems and their rights. Sex workers don’t need rescue or sympathy, they need solidarity in their fight for human rights.

Almost all states decline to prosecute a rapist that rapes a prostitute.

None of these acts committed against women are committed by women but by men.

All is not lost, things they are a changing thanks to the internet.

In the last 10 to 15 years many women without the typical baggage are moving into this sector of employment. Today's working women have very little in common with the plight of yesterday's working girls. We are in charge of our businesses. Our lives. Our homes. Our children. And our goals. We are empowered.

I'll ask you again, are we "whores" truly "sociopaths" or just hated because we think and act like men?

[Eve Hennessey]

double post

[spa999]

A lot here. First, you think I am still arguing sociopathy. My most recent post suggests a completely alternate explanation. Address that.

Second, if prostitution was really so unpleasant, women would not stay in it. Despite your stats, the great bulk of pros. enter and stay in prostitition bc they want to. The upside clearly beats any downside.

Comparing humans to bulls/cows doesn't fit as an analogy in nature to human sexuality, though comparisons to other primates might do better. In non-human primates, females have been observed taking things of value from males (food, etc.) prior to or after assenting to mating w/ them. In that regard we see prostitution supported in nature, though being that humans are part of nature, you need look no farther than humans to see it in action.

I never said pros don't form emotional bonds w/ others. I said some number of human females do not form such bonds *as a result* of mating with men. They may as a result of something else. This I know from observation and experience. Also, not all such women become pros. But it'd seem to be a necessary trait in a pro to help ensure her emotional safety and allow her to manage herself and her client base rationally. Hence the very high likelihood that any given pro forms little or no emotional bond w/ her clients, though getting them to believe so clearly can help their business.

You can always stop turning tricks at any time, Eve. Go ahead, do it. No one's got a gun to your head. A whore makes more money per year at age 20, a year away from losing her virginity, than I do w/ over 25 yrs of professional experience. Cry me a river.

Originally Posted by Eve Hennessey

To understand sex drive, one only need to look to nature. A bull will service as many heifers as he can, day in and day out until all are impregnated. There is an innate unspoken psychology to spread the seed and strengthen the herd.

There is no emotion or bonding on either side.

You wrote, "The supply side of this market is likely to be made up of ppl who form little or no emotional bonds with those they have sex with, as it will be easy for them merely to have sex w/ them and walk away. But they also must be ppl whom others will actually pay for sex."

You couldn't be more wrong in your assumption. The supply side of this equation is extremely capable of feeling, bonding, loving and committing. Her 'need' is about survival at the most basic of levels. She must protect and feed her offspring and since that bull has long since moved on servicing as many others as he can, she is left to fend for herself and her children.

Some numbers for you...

"A 1995 study ... found that people who were sexually abused as children are a whopping 27.7 times more likely than others to be arrested for prostitution." "Many prostitutes say they turned to paid dates as a way to take control of their sexuality after having had it taken from them. Others are forced into prostitution by their abusers—a 2001 study by the Center for Impact Research (CIR) noted that it is common for adults in particularly dire circumstances to force children into prostitution to pay rent or to buy drugs. It starts with childhood sexual abuse by a relative or mother's boyfriend, a lifelong psychological trauma for which they often never receive counseling or treatment."

"Women bear the brunt of prostitution incarcerations. Johns usually face heavy fines—under a Chicago city ordinance they are charged $700 in fines and car impoundment fees—but then, in the vast majority of cases, charges are dropped. Male pimps are likewise rarely arrested."

Summary of research and clinical findings regarding violence in all types of prostitution.

95% of those in prostitution experienced sexual harassment that would be legally actionable in another job.
65% to 95% of those in prostitution were sexually assaulted as children.
70% to 95% were physically assaulted in prostitution.
60% to 75% were raped in prostitution.
75% of those in prostitution have been homeless at some point in their lives.
85% to 95% of those in prostitution want to escape it, but have no other options for survival.
68% of 854 people in strip club, massage, and street prostitution in 9 countries met criteria for
post traumatic stress disorder or PTSD.
80% to 90% of those in prostitution experience verbal abuse and social contempt which adversely affect
them.

The reality is that “Male dominance means that the society creates a pool of prostitutes by any means necessary so that men have what men need to stay on top, to feel big, literally, metaphorically, in every way.”
(Andrea Dworkin, 1997, Prostitution and Male Supremacy, Life and Death, New York: Free Press).

"As recently as 1991, police in a southern California community closed all rape reports made by prostitutes and addicts, placing them in a file stamped “NHI.” The letters stand for the words “No Human Involved.” (Linda Fairstein, 1993, Sexual Violence: Our War Against Rape, New York: William Morrow and Co.).

Judges, police and juries often hold bias against sex workers. In Philadelphia, Judge Teresa Carr-Deni called gang-rape of a sex worker at gunpoint “theft of services” and refused to allow prosecution to press aggravated sexual assault charges. In South Africa, police routinely refuse to even pursue rape cases involving sex workers or laugh at victims when victims come forward.

In Norway, several migrant sex workers were evicted from their apartment and had their cash and electronics seized after reporting violent rape by individuals impersonating police. Migrant sex worker victims also face risk of being deported in Canada and the United States if they seek law enforcement help, and while relief from deportation for victims theoretically exists, it is inconsistently applied, high-barrier, quota-capped and temporary, and the process of applying for relief is labor-intensive, lengthy, and biased against imperfect victims. Trans women of color face disproportionate profiling as sex workers and disproportionate police misconduct and sexual assault while in custody. And as a current, all-to-common example of how race, class, and criminalization of drug use and sex work intersect to make women vulnerable to state violence, Oklahoma City police officer Daniel Holtzclaw preyed on 13 black, low-income women, many with criminal records for prostitution and drug use, systematically using threat of arrest and the victims’ vulnerability due to race, class, and status as a sex worker or drug user to assault them.

A recent academic article found that decriminalization is the only framework that would secure human rights for sex workers in South Africa. Across contexts, decriminalization allows sex workers to work together and for street-based sex workers to work in safer areas, factors which increase safety. Decriminalization also increases sex worker access to justice and allows sex workers to report violence to the police without fearing arrest. 70% of sex workers and social service providers in New Zealand say that sex workers were more likely to go to the police after sex work had been decriminalized.

Sex workers sometimes also face structural violence from healthcare and social service professionals, but there are things agencies can to to help fight violence against sex workers. They can train staff to be culturally competent towards sex workers. They can organize bad date lists. They can support policies that increase sex worker access to justice, safety, and human rights. They can support or create space for peer-led efforts for safety and organizing.

Sex workers - even the most vulnerable sex workers - are resilient, and in the face of individual and systematic violence, they support each other in staying safe and fighting back against violence. They organize bad date lists and share information about bad clients. They work together and look out for each other. They serve as safety buddies for each other. And they come together to support other sex workers who have experienced victimization. They conduct their own research. They teach service providers how to serve people in the sex trade without stigma. They educate each other about legal systems and their rights. Sex workers don’t need rescue or sympathy, they need solidarity in their fight for human rights.

Almost all states decline to prosecute a rapist that rapes a prostitute.

None of these acts committed against women are committed by women but by men.

All is not lost, things they are a changing thanks to the internet.

In the last 10 to 15 years many women without the typical baggage are moving into this sector of employment. Today's working women have very little in common with the plight of yesterday's working girls. We are in charge of our businesses. Our lives. Our homes. Our children. And our goals. We are empowered.

I'll ask you again, are we "whores" truly "sociopaths" or just hated because we think and act like men?

[gentlemantoo]

Why is this thread still going? Have we not determined the OPs ignorance? Well, yitzchak had one going for a long time and it was too stupid to read past first page, this one falls into that category, stop responding if you want the ignorant to go away.

[Buying a *Way to Heaven]

Originally Posted by Eve Hennessey

blah blah blah

What a load of psychotic feminazi rubbish. If you go around quoting the likes of Andrea Dworkin, you can't expect people to treat you like a human being.

[spa999]

What's it to you that the thread is still going? Fear the subject matter? Or annoyed that you're not the center of attention?

We're having a discussion. Ppl swooping in and saying "Don't bother talking" are operating contrary to the purpose of the boards.

Start your own discussion if you don't like this one but stop being a common playground bully and buzz the f*ck off.

Originally Posted by gentlemantoo

Why is this thread still going? Have we not determined the OPs ignorance? Well, yitzchak had one going for a long time and it was too stupid to read past first page, this one falls into that category, stop responding if you want the ignorant to go away.

[spa999]

Surprising how little has been done to study sex workers and their intimacy styles, and the roots of same. Some stuff is out there but not a lot. A few references:

http://www.drmichaelaaronnyc.com/con...ent-sexuality/

I'd guess many pros have a Dismissive or Fearful attachment style esp. as relates to sex. Many johns also, though some prob have a Preoccupied style (these'd be the guys who see a pro. then think she requites feelings he has for her but obviously does not). I have my own theories about that too. A tangential topic, I think the "obesessed john" that pops up from time to time in a pro's life is the result of a guy not realizing that a pro, by having sex w/ him shortly after meeting him, is sending him, unintentionally, a "false positive". Men are raised to believe that women only have sex w/ men if they have feelings for them/want a rel'p. Pros otoh are women who are atypical in that they form little or no attachments to sex partners but may form them for other reasons, just not sex. The john doesn't recognize that the pro is this kind of woman however so emotionally he assumes, subconsciously, that her having sex w/ him means she has feelings for him, when the only feelings for him she has is the same kind a shopkeeper may have for a customer who comes in to buy a can of soda. So he gets angry at her, accuses her of "leading him on," etc., when in fact she has done no such thing. So unless the obsessed john snaps out of it, she eventually needs to refuse to see him, call the cops on him, etc. This is why there are men who should not hobby, if they either don't or can't accept this state, or who tend to lack emotional self-control vis-a-vis sex with women.

Anyway, a couple other arts.:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ealth-problems

Cites one of the few studies done on pros. and their mental health. You'd think there'd be a lot more on this topic given how long the mental health field has been around, and given that the world's oldest profession predates it all the way back to *before* the dawn of Man. Interesting stuff in there, esp. the stat saying 45% of pros have no desire to leave the line of work. Ther are a lot of other lines of work ppl seem much quicker to leave: cashier, fast food worker, and my favorite, Hospital Sanitation Worker grade I, ie, the guy who cleans the dead rats out from other the human waste incinerator in the basement, LOL. Still, one study of a small sample in one country makes it hard to draw any conclusions about sex workers in general or even pros. in general.

Another one:

http://www.annestirlinghastings.com/...nt-attachment/

Hmmm, interesting. Seems more inclined to address disorders a john may have vs. a pro. Still, worthwhile, as it takes 2 to tango. And the scope isn't limited to pros. and johns, more of a general thing. I can see how the behavior of female avoidants though help fuel the market for pros. Living with a functionally asexual woman for X years would drive even an Episcopal priest to start banging whores.

[Guest122317-1]

Originally Posted by James1588

There is a sort of person who lives in a cesspool -- often, one of his own making -- and is firmly convinced that the entire universe is made of shit. Anyone who says otherwise is "fooling himself." Hold a bunch of violets under his nose, and he'll complain about the reek of dogshit.

At the callow age of 63, I'm distressed to find that my happiness is over, or soon will be, and that my life is about to dissolve into a series of disappointing disillusionments. When, exactly, does this start? And it's especially bad to think that the disillusionments are going to be disappointing. That's simply unacceptable. I think I'll insist on fully-satisfactory disillusionments. That way, maybe I can go on being happy.

Right on.. I dont see myself as a sociopathic person just be suse I still want to enjoy what few yearsI I have left as a man..the ladies are trying to provide for their families in a world that leaves them struggling to make ends meet. I am firever grateful that they will let me still feel like a man and the dignity to imagine that I am still a good looking man instead of the old man that stares back at me in the mirror.
If my wife had the desire that vanished during menopause and the act became uncomfortable for her I would never even look..

[Guest122317-1]

As far as that I think I get along quite well with the ladies... If not tbey deserve an Oscar..the greatest hurdle forme was the age barriers but then most ladies im my age bracket is experiencing the same things most women do at that age. It doesn't take a genius to figure out thats why so many clients are in that age bracket all with the same reasons

[Buying a *Way to Heaven]

Originally Posted by spa999

Surprising how little has been done to study sex workers and their intimacy styles, and the roots of same. Some stuff is out there but not a lot.

Good current research is scarce because researchers have to be careful to avoid giving offense that might endanger their employer's funding. They don't dare criticize law enforcement, question public policy, or contradict PC orthodoxy which says that Men are the Root of All Evil. You won't find much on line in any case, you'll have to read printed paper, and it won't come in convenient sixty second bites like the links you posted.

[Eve Hennessey]

Originally Posted by spa999

A lot here. First, you think I am still arguing sociopathy. My most recent post suggests a completely alternate explanation. Address that.

Second, if prostitution was really so unpleasant, women would not stay in it. Despite your stats, the great bulk of pros. enter and stay in prostitition bc they want to. The upside clearly beats any downside.

Comparing humans to bulls/cows doesn't fit as an analogy in nature to human sexuality, though comparisons to other primates might do better. In non-human primates, females have been observed taking things of value from males (food, etc.) prior to or after assenting to mating w/ them. In that regard we see prostitution supported in nature, though being that humans are part of nature, you need look no farther than humans to see it in action.

I never said pros don't form emotional bonds w/ others. I said some number of human females do not form such bonds *as a result* of mating with men. They may as a result of something else. This I know from observation and experience. Also, not all such women become pros. But it'd seem to be a necessary trait in a pro to help ensure her emotional safety and allow her to manage herself and her client base rationally. Hence the very high likelihood that any given pro forms little or no emotional bond w/ her clients, though getting them to believe so clearly can help their business.

You can always stop turning tricks at any time, Eve. Go ahead, do it. No one's got a gun to your head. A whore makes more money per year at age 20, a year away from losing her virginity, than I do w/ over 25 yrs of professional experience. Cry me a river.

I see reading comprehension eludes you as well...

You do hate us--- that's alarming, disheartening and good to know all at the same time!

Sometimes, though rare, not even banana nut bread will help.

Cheerio Boys

[cowboy8055]

Originally Posted by Eve Hennessey

Sex bots will never take the place of me stepping to you as I wrap my hands and arms around you from behind. They will never unbutton your shirt and slip their hand inside for a tease of your nipple or chest hair. They will never undo your trousers allowing them to fall around your ankles as my hand touches your manhood. They will never replace the warmth of my body against yours or my breath on your neck. They will never press their bodies into yours or give into you when you've managed to touch them in such way that they drop all defenses. Nor will you ever experience my quivering body as I open myself up to your touches. And, you'll never feel the sudden rush of my juices as I let go.

I couldn't agree more. A guy who's into sex bots probably has more mental health issues than most escorts.

[cowboy8055]

Originally Posted by Buying a *Way to Heaven

Good current research is scarce because researchers have to be careful to avoid giving offense that might endanger their employer's funding. They don't dare criticize law enforcement, question public policy, or contradict PC orthodoxy which says that Men are the Root of All Evil. You won't find much on line in any case, you'll have to read printed paper, and it won't come in convenient sixty second bites like the links you posted.

I don't know if you can put much stock in research. It comes down to who's actually being researched. The spectrum of escorts and jons is quite varied. They don't get involved in the hobby for the same reasons and don't have the same experiences. Makes it difficult to draw meaningful conclusions. A street walker will likely have a much different view of escorting than a high end gal working out of 5 star hotels.

Are some escorts sociopaths? Well, sociopaths are part of the general population and escorts are part of that general population. So, yes, there probably are. But you could say the same thing about jons.

[Buying a *Way to Heaven]

Originally Posted by Eve Hennessey

I see reading comprehension eludes you as well...

You do hate us--- that's alarming, disheartening and good to know all at the same time!

Sometimes, though rare, not even banana nut bread will help.

Cheerio Boys

Good luck with your crusade, LEA.

[Buying a *Way to Heaven]

Originally Posted by cowboy8055

I don't know if you can put much stock in research. It comes down to who's actually being researched.

Well, that's usually the problem with research, isn't it? Research on prostitutes tends (obviously) to be biased toward those who have an arrest record. A good researcher makes some effort to compensate for sample selection bias. Most researchers are not good. Give me any one set of data and I can prove A to one audience and A-naught to another. If you don't read the details you'll never know the difference.