Kansas gets it right.

[SinsOfTheFlesh]

If requiring a permit to carry a concealed weapon represents an infringement on our right to bear arms, doesn't requiring an ID, which also costs money, in order to vote represent an infringement on our right to vote?

Consistency. Its a beautiful thing.

We have the right to a free press. Says so right in the First Amendment. Yet we still have to buy a newspaper on which we pay sales tax, or pay for cable or internet access, on which we also pay taxes. Nearly any other means by which we obtain our news involves a tax somewhere along the way.

We have the right to Freedom of Assembly. Also says so right there in the First Amendment. Yet if we wish to hold a demonstration, we still need to fill out the appropriate paperwork and pay whatever associated fees are required.

We have the right to drink alcohol according to the 21st amendment. That doesn't stop either the state or federal gov't from collecting taxes on booze.

We have the right to a whole slew of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution according to the 9th Amendment. These rights include everything from the right to privacy, right to drive, right to work, right to education, and many others. Many of which also require some sort of permit or license, or involve some form of tax or fee.

In short folks, freedom is not free, and not just because it is bought and paid for by our brave men and women who serve. Not a day goes by that you do not pay for your many freedoms in one form or another. The ability to carry a deadly weapon on your person is no different in that respect. And BECAUSE you are carrying a deadly weapon and not a toy, and BECAUSE you only think you are Rambo but in reality are not, society has EVERY right to expect you to meet a reasonable standard of proficiency before you Rambo up.

[WombRaider]

Originally Posted by SinsOfTheFlesh

If requiring a permit to carry a concealed weapon represents an infringement on our right to bear arms, doesn't requiring an ID, which also costs money, in order to vote represent an infringement on our right to vote?

Consistency. Its a beautiful thing.

We have the right to a free press. Says so right in the First Amendment. Yet we still have to buy a newspaper on which we pay sales tax, or pay for cable or internet access, on which we also pay taxes. Nearly any other means by which we obtain our news involves a tax somewhere along the way.

We have the right to Freedom of Assembly. Also says so right there in the First Amendment. Yet if we wish to hold a demonstration, we still need to fill out the appropriate paperwork and pay whatever associated fees are required.

We have the right to drink alcohol according to the 21st amendment. That doesn't stop either the state or federal gov't from collecting taxes on booze.

We have the right to a whole slew of rights not specifically enumerated in the Constitution according to the 9th Amendment. These rights include everything from the right to privacy, right to drive, right to work, right to education, and many others. Many of which also require some sort of permit or license, or involve some form of tax or fee.

In short folks, freedom is not free, and not just because it is bought and paid for by our brave men and women who serve. Not a day goes by that you do not pay for your many freedoms in one form or another. The ability to carry a deadly weapon on your person is no different in that respect. And BECAUSE you are carrying a deadly weapon and not a toy, and BECAUSE you only think you are Rambo but in reality are not, society has EVERY right to expect you to meet a reasonable standard of proficiency before you Rambo up.

This is spot-fucking on. Not to mention that those fees go to pay for things they enjoy everyday and don't think twice about. As for free press, the word 'free' did not mean gratis. It meant they were free from government intrusion. I agree on the proficiency. It's not an undue burden to require someone who wants to carry a concealed weapon be trained on said weapon. I don't like the chance for random fuck-ups that become possible with a whole bunch of gun-toting people around. Like the child who was killed because she reached into her mom's purse and the gun went off. No gun in that purse, that kid lives. Obtaining a CCP should not be something that is gained lightly.

[JD Barleycorn]

This is the liberal argument (its called Ju jitzu) against Sins; if you have to pay a fee for a right like carrying a concealed weapon for self defense then you can be denied that right because of poverty. Just like voting and ID. It costs too much. If the powers that be can reason that raising the price of freedom can deny that freedom they will go there. Just like in Washington DC and New York City. It is legal to buy a guy but it costs a lot to obtain the permission and there is no money back guarantee if your denied. The poor, who may need self defense more than anyone, are priced out of the market. So what's next? Do we subsidize the poor?

Like I have already written, people should be getting the training but when we leave this in the hands of the bureaucrats we end up with unnecessary fees and denials.

[i'va biggen]

If you can't afford the small fee for obtaining or renewing your CC, then you can't afford a gun.

[JD Barleycorn]

That is the liberal argument EVA. If you can't afford it then it will be afforded for you. Where is most of the crime in a city, in the poor areas.

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

That is the liberal argument EVA. If you can't afford it then it will be afforded for you. Where is most of the crime in a city, in the poor areas.

Typical tea bag comeback if you can't prove something call the person a liberal. Kansas has provided it for them judy, if you steal one you can carry legal in July.

[JD Barleycorn]

When did I call you a liberal this time? (feeling defensive?) I said that this is the oft repeated liberal argument. Read that again slowly, LIBERAL ARGUMENT! Think voter ID. It's too expensive. It's racist (their argument, not mine), It hurts the poor. You can say the same thing about requiring a purchased permit to own or carry a gun. I'm demonstrating the hypocrisy of the left.

You'll also have to explain what sucking balls has to do with firearms. Maybe a picture?

[i'va biggen]

Originally Posted by JD Barleycorn

When did I call you a liberal this time? (feeling defensive?) I said that this is the oft repeated liberal argument. Read that again slowly, LIBERAL ARGUMENT! Think voter ID. It's too expensive. It's racist (their argument, not mine), It hurts the poor. You can say the same thing about requiring a purchased permit to own or carry a gun. I'm demonstrating the hypocrisy of the left.

You'll also have to explain what sucking balls has to do with firearms. Maybe a picture?

You have gone bat shit crazy judy,. The voices in your head are leading you down a crooked path of sucking balls, as you can't find it in my posts. A statement about not being able to pay for a CC and not being able to afford a gun is not a liberal statement except in you little mind after you spin it. Hope your date with Hillary works out you two deserve each other.