The Taliban

[lacrew_2000]

Wash, rinse, repeat......when I see Cheny, Rice, Rumsfeld called neocons, I usually quit reading, because 90% of those who use the term are unclear over its meaning or origin.

I think we have to look at why we invaded Afghanistan. It was born out of Bush's stated policy, you are either with us or against us. If you harbor terrorists, or turn a blind eye to terrorists, you are against us. Sort of like an accessory charge on a national level. The Taliban refused to turn over Bin Laden...if you remember, they said they would really like to help us, but customs and traditions in their culture about treating 'guests' prevented them from doing it.

Well, Bush did the unexpected...he called bull-shit. For 8 years, Al Quaeda had been emboldened by seeing us cut tail and run in Somalia, and make empty threats while Saddam flaunted no fly zones, weapons inspection mandates, and economic sanctions...but Bush could not afford to merely make empty threats, on the heals of Sep 11.

For this reason, I think Dirty Dog's idea is pretty good. If the Taliban were to give up Bin Laden, they have done exactly what we demanded in the first place. After that point, we can negotiate with them (remember we were prepared to allow them to exist as the Afghan government, as long as they ponied up Bin Laden). Will it solve terrorism? Nope, but it would be a huge symbolic victory...and if we negotiated a peace in Afghanistan, it would no longer be a lawless wasteland, and de facto jihad boot camp.

Now, I do not believe that we are on the prowl, looking for a Boogeyman, and I certainly don't believe this nation has ever been interested in worldwide dominance...this is why we have a habit of rebuilding conquered territory, and returning it...Japan and Germany, for example. We even gave back the Panama Canal, which was built with American money. Al Quaeda found us, and quite frankly, we are the Boogeyman. We are the excuse used for failed governments and poverty throughout the middle east. Many middle eastern leaders, political and religious, could not function without the constant US Boogeyman.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

DD or any other person do you believe what many have said that the War on Terrorism is really not meant to be won- much like the War on Drugs. I mean there are a lot of people who believe that America must have a "BoogeyMan" in order to have an agenda for worldwide dominance- I mean for years it was the "Russians" and "Communist" are evil empires that must not be spreaded- now that we have become the only Super Power- all of a sudden "Al-Queada" is the BoogeyMan.

I do not think the war on terrorism or the war on drugs can be won. One reason is we cannot define what victory is. Is it victory if they are no longer killing us and are only killing Jews? Is it victory if we stop the cocain and only the weed is getting through. First I think the word war is not appropriate in these senerio's. There is no definable enemy, when we were in WW2 the enemy were the Nazi's and the german government or the Japanese government. But in the war on terror or drugs the enemy is not well defined. Were fighting terrorists, okay well who are terrorists. They could be Saudi, Iranian, Iraqi, Afghani, Pakastani, jordanian etc. you can fill in the blank, same can be said about drug dealers, who do you target, the columbian cartels, who are they? No you cant win the war the only thing you can do is try and minimize it. The war on terrorism although everyone wants to hide and shy away from this, but it is being waged by the radical islamics as a religious or holey war. This goes back to the crusades when the christians tried to eliminate the musiliams and it has carried through to today, so no matter how much compromise is attempted it will never be enough because the core issue cannot be compromised, radicals on both sides will never allow musiliams and christians to live in harmony and peace. All we can do it fight over there, try to reduce their ability to attack us here, but the reality is, we are an open border society and there will be additional attacks here.

Bush's comments were made to justify to the American people how important it was to fight the war. I don't believe however it is part of a mass conspiracy to develope a demon there are enough of those around that they dont have to be invented.

[Cheaper2buyit]

do we believe they just found all this big supply of ore over there after 9 plus years is the big ?????

[wellendowed1911]

Originally Posted by Cheaper2buyit

do we believe they just found all this big supply of ore over there after 9 plus years is the big ?????

Cheaper i assume you are talking about the 1 trillion dollars in precious metals that was just discovered in Afghanistan? Well, I think we and many other nations knew that Afghanistan has some untapped reserves not in just ore but oil as well. I truly believe that is why the soviets invaded was because of the economic potential that is in Afghanistan. True, Afghanistan is one of the poorest nations in the world, but it has enormous amount of untapped resources that makes many nations salivate- trust me that was the main reason why the U.S didn't want the soviets in Afghanistan.

[Bartman1963]

Funny thing is that the survey that found the precious metals is, I believe several years old.

As far as al quaeda being emboldened by us leaving Somalia, we have a history of leaving places when casualties mount. Anyone remember Reagan showing Hamas "nothing but asshole and elbows" as we beat a hasty freaking retreat out of Lebanon after the Marine barracks were blown up?

What should we do in Iraq and Afghanistan to win? A. Get out. B. Get out.

We are not and cannot be committed to the brutality needed to defeat them in a classical military sense. We have the weapons. It could be done, but millions would have to be killed. Even the Soviets didn't go that far and they were extraordinarily brutal. And...the war would have to be widened to include territory inside of Pakistan. And I don't mean drone strikes or SF. I mean the shit.

It isn't worth it.

Give the CIA and NSA more money to operate overseas and do what we have to do with smaller SF operations against targets when they present themselves.

[dirty dog]

Thats what I 've been saying LOL. Hey Bart we agree on something.....

[HeyMikie]

Originally Posted by Cheaper2buyit

....I mean take 5 miles and just bomb it till they have earthquakes for the next 10 years or at least after shocks

And... We will have started their new mining industry!

[HeyMikie]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

Bush's comments were made to justify to the American people how important it was to fight the war. I don't believe however it is part of a mass conspiracy to develope a demon there are enough of those around that they dont have to be invented.

Have you re-read "1984" lately? And be sure to respond with politically correct syntax. With the proper PC vocabulary (new speak), it is nearly impossible to offend the sensibilities of others.

[HeyMikie]

Originally Posted by Bartman1963

Give the CIA and NSA more money to operate overseas and do what we have to do with smaller SF operations against targets when they present themselves.

Effective covert ops have the fewest casualties, against UTR targets that are sufficient to disrupt organizations, but too confusing to readily identify the source or the intent of the action.

The British, Israeli, and Russian operatives understand and practice this (albeit the Russians add a level of ruthlessness to the game). Too bad Hill&Bill (and probably G.H.W.Bush) saw fit to downsize and decimate these resources to the point of operational impotence.

IMHO, Carter was (probably) too "ethical" to exercise this type of option, and may have contributed to dismantling covert ops as well.

There is a level of callous ruthlessness required to protect the general public from those who have no boundaries. It is better to quietly act on a select few, than to allow groups to organize to the point that full military action is required. Wars are guaranteed to produce innocent casualties and to incite feelings of hatred for generations to come (these combatants are still remembering the atrocities of the CRUSADES).

My opinions and $5 may be enough to buy a cuppa Joe at Starbucks.

[BiggestBest]

Originally Posted by wellendowed1911

I truly believe that is why the soviets invaded was because of the economic potential that is in Afghanistan.

Watch for it: China will show up just in time to "help" with the mining, like they are doing right now in Africa.

[Cheaper2buyit]

hello every body are you just reading I have been saying black op all along send in troups gives the one you want to get time to hide. I will say this get old bin in a body bag & let aljeezzra post it on their news then you get some respect. putting saddam on trial was a bad deal found him in a dead then you get respect.

[dirty dog]

Originally Posted by HeyMikie

Have you re-read "1984" lately? And be sure to respond with politically correct syntax. With the proper PC vocabulary (new speak), it is nearly impossible to offend the sensibilities of others.

Been a long time since I read 1984, I am not saying that the government does not invent boogiemen when it needs to, I just dont think it did in this case, with Afghanistan. I still say had they turned over Bin Ladin we would not have lifted a finger to help Afghanistan.

I think there is a lot of truth in what Wellendowed said, even with regards to Russia, but if that was the case we would have went after these minerals back in the 80's, but we didnt we abandoned Afghanistan as soon as the Russians did.

BY the way I have no idean what new speak is LOL.

[Bartman1963]

DD that's the thing. Conservatives and Liberals have many things in common. A love of Country first among them. We should learn to focus on those common ideas, and leave the bickering and hatred for those who truly want to destroy us.

Too many in our country today make money from the demonization of one side or the other, and that makes many in far off foreign lands think we might be easy pickings.

I say quit trying to blame the other guy, actually do what we really think is best, and present a solid front to the scum that want to kill us. That will lead to respect, and with luck peace.

[Cheaper2buyit]

HI GUYS still tring to find if I am a lliberal or conservative I just don't know.

[dirty dog]

Your liberal cheaper, your anti corperation and pro give aways IE insurance etc. But we still like you anyway.