On Being Kept...

[bladtinzu]

Ok don't take this wrong

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

If you read my whole post, you will see that we are very much talking about the same thing. "Hooker mentality", which is little interest in investing a lot of time into the relationship, and short term thinking, which you seem to have confused with "hooker mentality". It kind of runs in the same lane of the racetrack

Just because a girl doesn't want to be so involved, doesn't mean she's thinking short term. Just because she does, doesn't mean she's thinking long term either. Other commitments, personal comfort zone, and what she wants out of the situation all have an impact on what situation works best for each girl. And guys do this also. I know I do because the last thing I have time for is a long term relationship. All I want out of the situation is fun fun fun. Short term exclusive fun.

Everyone is looking for something here, and it's very likely that it's different from what you are. That doesn't mean that those other people are doing it wrong, and it doesn't mean each girl fits under the blanket judgements that are so popular on this board. Every situation is different so what works for him may not work for someone else. But one thing rings true. No stripper or hooker has ever lasted as a SB.

Real short term thinking is "Oh, rents due. I need $1,000 from somewhere". Not acknowledging what kind of work environment works best for you. Or, "hooker mentality", as you so elegantly put it ;-)

Those without a firm understanding and grasp of financial matters tend to do that short term "Oh shit such and such is due tomorrow" deal. One SB I had a while back (and she lasted the longest of any because she was interesting and hot) was in her second year of medical school. I just ended up giving her a company credit card because I was tired of her last minute emergencies. She finally followed my advice and got it together. Maybe now by the time she gets established as a doctor she will have a high 700 credit score and be on her way to over 800.

[Charlotte Breeze]

Originally Posted by bladtinzu

Ok don't take this wrong



Those without a firm understanding and grasp of financial matters tend to do that short term "Oh shit such and such is due tomorrow" deal. One SB I had a while back (and she lasted the longest of any because she was interesting and hot) was in her second year of medical school. I just ended up giving her a company credit card because I was tired of her last minute emergencies. She finally followed my advice and got it together. Maybe now by the time she gets established as a doctor she will have a high 700 credit score and be on her way to over 800.

I think the fact that the majority of these situations are mostly cash deals don't help either. It's to easy and immediate. It takes a lot of self control that most people, not just sex workers, don't have.

What is "making it" as a SB? I've seen this referenced a couple times on this thread. I have been with the majority of my clients than most have kept their SB's on this thread, so I'm wondering if it's a time thing, or the amount of involvement on one or both sides, or what? I tend to think of things in terms of length of time, because no matter what business you're in, consistent regulars are where the money comes from, but I know the guys might have a different take on this.

[Charlotte Breeze]

Originally Posted by LilMynx69

I actually think the two of you are actually pretty close to being on the same page on this...

GY6- what you call Hooker Mentality is what I've been calling Stripper Mentality for years. But while I've never seen a stripper who was a successful SB, I have seen some escorts successfully become SBs or kept.

I've heard "stripper mentality" in regards to short term, work for what you need right now, spend it today and don't think about tomorrow situations much more than hooker mentality as well. I always thought that was just plain old "short term thinking" like everyone else in the world, but hey. Society has to get a dig in somehow, right

I've always heard "hooker mentality" used in terms of how much she can get for her time. It came up a lot when I worked for an agency, and girls didn't want to adjust their rates for longer dates. They just wanted to charge a flat rate per hour, no matter how short or long. This was sometimes because they couldn't see the benefit of longer appointments in terms of burnout, but a lot of the time it was just because it wasn't the behind closed doors that they found to be "work". It was the dinner dates or long periods locked in a hotel room with one person, where they had to talk and interact and feign emotions and interest that were harder for them. I think we can all see how someone can feel that way though

Semantics, eh?

[Guest062114-5]

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

I think the fact that the majority of these situations are mostly cash deals don't help either. It's to easy and immediate. It takes a lot of self control that most people, not just sex workers, don't have.

What is "making it" as a SB? I've seen this referenced a couple times on this thread. I have been with the majority of my clients than most have kept their SB's on this thread, so I'm wondering if it's a time thing, or the amount of involvement on one or both sides, or what? I tend to think of things in terms of length of time, because no matter what business you're in, consistent regulars are where the money comes from, but I know the guys might have a different take on this.

I can't spead for Blad, but to me "making it as a SB" means not totally screwing up because you're money hungry, not available, not exclusive, breach his trust., steal, lie, etc. A situation can be long or short and be successful if it just runs its natural course.

A SB becoming independent and moving on would not me, in my opinion, her not making it. Rather that would be about as successful as one could hope for.

I've read that women entering these types of situations, who are thinking smart, will have a plan and a goal and a time limit. I am trying to follow those rules and I had a 3 year plan, however, I accomplished my goals in two years and now I'm stuck in this holding pattern. I don't want to be ungrateful, but I'm ready to move one...I just don't want to hurt anyone. I know at this point he's getting much more benefit than I am...so I struggle with feeling a bit trapped and bitter. And then feel horrible guilty.

I'm a bit lost and I do appreciate y'all (especially Blad and Charlotte) taking the time to engage and offer such good insight.

Bladtinzu, I don't want to make this anything but a true compliment, but your answers here have shown me another side to you that I really like and appreciate. I'm glad I didn't jump to a stap judgment.

xoxo,
LMx

[bladtinzu]

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

I think the fact that the majority of these situations are mostly cash deals don't help either. It's to easy and immediate. It takes a lot of self control that most people, not just sex workers, don't have.

What is "making it" as a SB? I've seen this referenced a couple times on this thread. I have been with the majority of my clients than most have kept their SB's on this thread, so I'm wondering if it's a time thing, or the amount of involvement on one or both sides, or what? I tend to think of things in terms of length of time, because no matter what business you're in, consistent regulars are where the money comes from, but I know the guys might have a different take on this.

Honestly everyone is different. Some guy might want a second serious relationship like a second younger hotter wife than the current model he isn't driving into the mattress that much anymore. Or me. A few months of fun and move on. Girls tend to get attached for some reason and i have zero tolerance for that so short term works best for me.

[Liliana]

Originally Posted by Gotyour6

Hooker mentality.

Again, here we go again.

Not worth the price, money money money.
Time with client (Sugar daddy) is not worth the money, apartment, gift etc..

See why these topics dont go well on this site??

I am going to continue to repeat myself as everyone else will.

I'm just letting you know how my particular friends in the industry feel. If you feel like paying for our rent entitles you to that much of our time I don't know what to say. What else is being provided? For me it depends on the person and circumstance but I doubt it would happen often.

[heinz5710]

I find these discussions interesting because I'm able to see multiple views. What I think I have read more frequently then not is that a SD\SB relationship is not one where someone is counting the money or counting the sex meets. It seems more like a friends with benefits deal where the SD helps out now and then or in the ideal case just provides some material things to improve the life of someone who can take care of herself. The SB on the other hand not only provides sexual benefits to the SD but often does other things for him as well. It is a mutual benefit. Other relationships where money and sex are counted and enumerated are something else. i.e. If I were to give a lady $1500/mo to make herself available. To me, that is sort of an escort on contract deal. If I ask for the bedroom too much, she'll request a raise. I also wouldn't want her contacting me and I can't imagine any woman just getting horny and wanting to be with me physically. That just isn't reality. People get in to all sorts of relationships. If there is no legal commitment, I don't see any reason why either party should not be able to break things off. To me, the successful SD\SB relationship is one where the lady is not dependent on the man for material well being but he gives material things anyway. The lady should be independent materially and not in to it just because she needs the rent. Over the years I have had a couple of successful relationships. In neither case were we thinking SD\SB. However, valuables were exchanged and both relationships ended. Maybe both times it was really a 'hooker on contract.' I don't care what you call the relationships but they worked for us. In the case of the medical student, that seemed ideal. She obviously is going to be able to take care of herself unless she has no control of herself with regards to money. I think that a key point. If the dependency is all material, it just can't work.

[Charlotte Breeze]

Originally Posted by Liliana

I'm just letting you know how my particular friends in the industry feel. If you feel like paying for our rent entitles you to that much of our time I don't know what to say. What else is being provided? For me it depends on the person and circumstance but I doubt it would happen often.

Careful, he'll accuse you of having the dreaded hooker mentality ;-)

It's interesting to me how we are somehow at fault for recognizing the value of our time, but sugar daddies are never seen as being at fault for wanting way more than they honestly usually pay for.

That's not directed at anyone on here, that's just what I've experienced and seen. It always seems like a sweet deal, and then next thing you know you're spending every weekend with some guy for $1,000. We aren't supposed to notice that we could make that in two to four hours with one guy and then think nothing else of it?

[Guest062114-5]

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

Careful, he'll accuse you of having the dreaded hooker mentality ;-)

It's interesting to me how we are somehow at fault for recognizing the value of our time, but sugar daddies are never seen as being at fault for wanting way more than they honestly usually pay for.

That's not directed at anyone on here, that's just what I've experienced and seen. It always seems like a sweet deal, and then next thing you know you're spending every weekend with some guy for $1,000. We aren't supposed to notice that we could make that in two to four hours with one guy and then think nothing else of it?

Agreed, I think what is being said is that it's hard to be a successful SB if you know you can make a bunch more with traditional escort activities.

The most successful SB are girls who work at the mall, are students, etc...because they don't usually have the option of making a $1000 in a couple of hours.

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

Careful, he'll accuse you of having the dreaded hooker mentality ;-)

It's interesting to me how we are somehow at fault for recognizing the value of our time, but sugar daddies are never seen as being at fault for wanting way more than they honestly usually pay for.

That's not directed at anyone on here, that's just what I've experienced and seen. It always seems like a sweet deal, and then next thing you know you're spending every weekend with some guy for $1,000. We aren't supposed to notice that we could make that in two to four hours with one guy and then think nothing else of it?

How can GY6 accuse you when you already have exhibited it? It is strange to me that the D&T forum has morphed into this place where women get paid $1000 for two to four hours and then object to being "ripped off" making $1000 in a weekend. The reality check is this: most women would love to make $1000 a weekend and get pampered.

So why don't they do what you are doing? Maybe some don't have the looks, social skills, or sexual skills you do, but there are a bunch of women who do have your same skills. They don't do what you do out of emotional discomfort or of a moral basis.

Furthermore, you are objectifying men. All you want out of us is money. Oh, sure we will have the usual objections. You love your clients... but not enough for $1000 weekends.

With the sugar babies I have, it was mostly money that got them into bed at first. They were like, "Well, you are a nice guy, you are willing to pay me, I am not going to get hurt so what the heck." With one, it was a genuine attraction of my intellect more so than money.

One SB of mine has a daughter that she brings with her when she sees me. She has become good friends with my son and dog, and her daughter talks about me non stop. Now the money has little to do with it. This SB was molested by a family member (way more common that anyone cares to talk about), and she fears for her daughter. I am practically the only man she feels safe to bring her daughter around. This SB has been with three men in her whole life, and yes, she is a stripper. She was also a straight A student, a RMT, and a musical prodigy. I give her $1000 a month plus gifts.

One SB is a go-go dancer, entrepreneur, and tailor. She has a bit part on a national TV show. She likes me for my intellect as I said, and she practically rapes me every time she sees me. I giver her $1200 per month.

And finally there is another stripper SB I met. Her father owns his own business and she worships him. Unfortunately, her uncle raped her, and even though her father did the right thing and booted the uncle's ass out of the family, she has been scared to be with someone until she met me. It took her months to talk herself into going to bed with me but then she finally did. She gets $800 or so per month.

I see these women about once or twice a week, and they typically call or text me more than I do them. I have a few other women, so called hookers on retainer, who see me every once in a while. Typically, these women have a man or two on the side that they have sex with but they ask to see me and fuck me when they need money. These women are smoking hot and sexually skilled but would never see just anyone.

Every one of these woman has modelled, could stop traffic, and are great in the sack.

What I find so off putting about "I might only make $1000 for a weekend" are the supply and demand reasons: the men you are seeing are married and paying for discretion, the men cannot do what I am doing because they lack the social skills or courage, the women are uptight sexually because they have been molested or morally object to your lifestyle.

I don't have a problem with your making $500 an hour. Lord knows I have paid it. What I do object to with hookers is their objectifying men, implying that my SBs are being preyed upon or the notion that they are being stupid when they could make so much more money. Believe it or not, having a place where one can feel safe and loved is a lot more important to some women than just money.

I am offended when I read women here say it is just money for sex. I have a lot more to offer women than just money, and the SBs have a lot more to offer me than just sex. If you and all the other people here think that is all that goes on with a real SD SB relationship, I feel sorry for you. You are living empty lives.

[Charlotte Breeze]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

How can GY6 accuse you when you already have exhibited it? It is strange to me that the D&T forum has morphed into this place where women get paid $1000 for two to four hours and then object to being "ripped off" making $1000 in a weekend. The reality check is this: most women would love to make $1000 a weekend and get pampered.

So why don't they do what you are doing? Maybe some don't have the looks, social skills, or sexual skills you do, but there are a bunch of women who do have your same skills. They don't do what you do out of emotional discomfort or of a moral basis.

Furthermore, you are objectifying men. All you want out of us is money. Oh, sure we will have the usual objections. You love your clients... but not enough for $1000 weekends.

With the sugar babies I have, it was mostly money that got them into bed at first. They were like, "Well, you are a nice guy, you are willing to pay me, I am not going to get hurt so what the heck." With one, it was a genuine attraction of my intellect more so than money.

One SB of mine has a daughter that she brings with her when she sees me. She has become good friends with my son and dog, and her daughter talks about me non stop. Now the money has little to do with it. This SB was molested by a family member (way more common that anyone cares to talk about), and she fears for her daughter. I am practically the only man she feels safe to bring her daughter around. This SB has been with three men in her whole life, and yes, she is a stripper. She was also a straight A student, a RMT, and a musical prodigy. I give her $1000 a month plus gifts.

One SB is a go-go dancer, entrepreneur, and tailor. She has a bit part on a national TV show. She likes me for my intellect as I said, and she practically rapes me every time she sees me. I giver her $1200 per month.

And finally there is another stripper SB I met. Her father owns his own business and she worships him. Unfortunately, her uncle raped her, and even though her father did the right thing and booted the uncle's ass out of the family, she has been scared to be with someone until she met me. It took her months to talk herself into going to bed with me but then she finally did. She gets $800 or so per month.

I see these women about once or twice a week, and they typically call or text me more than I do them. I have a few other women, so called hookers on retainer, who see me every once in a while. Typically, these women have a man or two on the side that they have sex with but they ask to see me and fuck me when they need money. These women are smoking hot and sexually skilled but would never see just anyone.

Every one of these woman has modelled, could stop traffic, and are great in the sack.

What I find so off putting about "I might only make $1000 for a weekend" are the supply and demand reasons: the men you are seeing are married and paying for discretion, the men cannot do what I am doing because they lack the social skills or courage, the women are uptight sexually because they have been molested or morally object to your lifestyle.

I don't have a problem with your making $500 an hour. Lord knows I have paid it. What I do object to with hookers is their objectifying men, implying that my SBs are being preyed upon or the notion that they are being stupid when they could make so much more money. Believe it or not, having a place where one can feel safe and loved is a lot more important to some women than just money.

I am offended when I read women here say it is just money for sex. I have a lot more to offer women than just money, and the SBs have a lot more to offer me than just sex. If you and all the other people here think that is all that goes on with a real SD SB relationship, I feel sorry for you. You are living empty lives.

Easy there, if you read my posts, I've already said all of this.

I never said anything about making $1,000 in a weekend. I was talking about the guys who will pay a girl $1,000 in a month, and then expect her to be on retainer for that entire time. Some SD's expect a LOT. I was saying that, in those situations, I don't see why the girl is at fault for recognizing she doesn't have to be at someone's beck and call like that, but the SD isn't for becoming overly demanding. Both parties can make these relationships go south, and from what I've seen, the SD's main fault is wanting more and more time, until the girl doesn't have any "her time" and says "forget it I'll just escort".

I've already done the whole "to each their own" schtick earlier in the thread. I honestly don't care as long as everyone's doing what they're happy with. That doesn't mean I can't also see and discuss the issues within those situations with other people.

And, by the way, you know nothing about my business or how I treat my clients. They don't have it half bad honey. Trust me. Don't take talking about the many points of complicated adult situations hypothetically or abstractly on a discussion board as any sort of indication of how I personally feel or treat people. You'll know if that's the point. Promise ;-)

Edited to add: I do wonder how escorts can "objectify" men for understanding that this is a P4P situation, but SB's supposedly see that there's more to you than that, even though you flat out admit that they sleep with you for the same reasons that we do. We all see the same things in you. Truthfully. Some of us just operate in different ways. Guys should just accept when they're getting a good deal and be happy about it. There's no need to insult other girls and pretend one is right or wrong.

[woodyboyd]

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

I never said anything about making $1,000 in a weekend. I was talking about the guys who will pay a girl $1,000 in a month, and then expect her to be on retainer for that entire time. Some SD's expect a LOT.
I was saying that, in those situations, I don't see why the girl is at fault for recognizing she doesn't have to be at someone's beck and call like that, but the SD isn't for becoming overly demanding. Both parties can make these relationships go south, and from what I've seen, the SD's main fault is wanting more and more time.

Do you see what you are doing, Charlotte? You are straw manning this. You are saying that bc some SDs want more and more time, all of us do so women had best stay escorts. In my case, my SBs want to spend more time with me rather than less. It is the opposite of what you are saying.

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

And, by the way, you know nothing about my business or how I treat my clients. They don't have it half bad honey. Trust me. Don't take talking about the many points of complicated adult situations hypothetically or abstractly on a discussion board as any sort of indication of how I personally feel or treat people.

Honey, I know all about your biz and clients. I have probably been a client longer than you have been an adult. I am not saying it is bad. I am saying being a SD has been a richer experience.

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

Edited to add: I do wonder how escorts can "objectify" men for understanding that this is a P4P situation, but SB's supposedly see that there's more to you than that, even though you flat out admit that they sleep with you for the same reasons that we do. We all see the same things in you. Truthfully.

Do you have a daughter who begs you to go see a certain client? If not, then no you don't get it, and the last thing you are being is truthful.

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

Guys should just accept when they're getting a good deal and be happy about it.

How can guys be getting a good deal when they are paying $1000 for 2 hours and I am paying $1000 for a month?

Originally Posted by Charlotte Breeze

There's no need to insult other girls and pretend one is right or wrong.

I am not insulting you. I am objecting to what this forum has become: women attempting to justify their astronomical rates by any means possible and men going along with it. I think you had best take your own advice: accept you are getting a great deal and be happy about it.

[Guest062114-5]

Originally Posted by woodyboyd

How can GY6 accuse you when you already have exhibited it? It is strange to me that the D&T forum has morphed into this place where women get paid $1000 for two to four hours and then object to being "ripped off" making $1000 in a weekend. The reality check is this: most women would love to make $1000 a weekend and get pampered.

So why don't they do what you are doing? Maybe some don't have the looks, social skills, or sexual skills you do, but there are a bunch of women who do have your same skills. They don't do what you do out of emotional discomfort or of a moral basis.

Furthermore, you are objectifying men. All you want out of us is money. Oh, sure we will have the usual objections. You love your clients... but not enough for $1000 weekends.

With the sugar babies I have, it was mostly money that got them into bed at first. They were like, "Well, you are a nice guy, you are willing to pay me, I am not going to get hurt so what the heck." With one, it was a genuine attraction of my intellect more so than money.

One SB of mine has a daughter that she brings with her when she sees me. She has become good friends with my son and dog, and her daughter talks about me non stop. Now the money has little to do with it. This SB was molested by a family member (way more common that anyone cares to talk about), and she fears for her daughter. I am practically the only man she feels safe to bring her daughter around. This SB has been with three men in her whole life, and yes, she is a stripper. She was also a straight A student, a RMT, and a musical prodigy. I give her $1000 a month plus gifts.

One SB is a go-go dancer, entrepreneur, and tailor. She has a bit part on a national TV show. She likes me for my intellect as I said, and she practically rapes me every time she sees me. I giver her $1200 per month.

And finally there is another stripper SB I met. Her father owns his own business and she worships him. Unfortunately, her uncle raped her, and even though her father did the right thing and booted the uncle's ass out of the family, she has been scared to be with someone until she met me. It took her months to talk herself into going to bed with me but then she finally did. She gets $800 or so per month.

I see these women about once or twice a week, and they typically call or text me more than I do them. I have a few other women, so called hookers on retainer, who see me every once in a while. Typically, these women have a man or two on the side that they have sex with but they ask to see me and fuck me when they need money. These women are smoking hot and sexually skilled but would never see just anyone.

Every one of these woman has modelled, could stop traffic, and are great in the sack.

What I find so off putting about "I might only make $1000 for a weekend" are the supply and demand reasons: the men you are seeing are married and paying for discretion, the men cannot do what I am doing because they lack the social skills or courage, the women are uptight sexually because they have been molested or morally object to your lifestyle.

I don't have a problem with your making $500 an hour. Lord knows I have paid it. What I do object to with hookers is their objectifying men, implying that my SBs are being preyed upon or the notion that they are being stupid when they could make so much more money. Believe it or not, having a place where one can feel safe and loved is a lot more important to some women than just money.

I am offended when I read women here say it is just money for sex. I have a lot more to offer women than just money, and the SBs have a lot more to offer me than just sex. If you and all the other people here think that is all that goes on with a real SD SB relationship, I feel sorry for you. You are living empty lives.

Though I could have done without the insults, I do appreciate your input. You actually gave me exactly the type of information and opinions I was looking for when I posted the topic originally.

The situations you described, are what I have in mind wen I think of successful SD/SB relationships. I am happy to know there are some sweet strippers out there, still, who are making these arrangements work.

It sounds like mutually beneficial relationship where everyone wins.

I do agree that most women would love to get $1000 along with pampering over a weekend. I think that it does sound crazy that anyone wouldn't think that's a good thing, when you think of it OUTSIDE of scope of escorting. I'm not trying to judge any lady for having that mentality, but suggest they think of how it seems to people looking from a non escort standpoint. Even in my own situation, I'm excited when this happens.

In my opinion, SD/SB relationships are similar to being kept, but I truly feel they are very unlike escorting. It's a totally different mentality, neither is wrong or right...just different.

[bladtinzu]

And just to throw a monkey wrench into this equation.

So a hooker makes $400 an hour.

Say a SB gets $2000 a month but only sees the guy maybe 2 times a month for 1.5 hours at a time.

The SB is making roughly $266 more an hour than the escort. And even if it is 3 hours at a time the earnings per hour are close.

[Guest062114-5]

Originally Posted by bladtinzu

And just to throw a monkey wrench into this equation.

So a hooker makes $400 an hour.

Say a SB gets $2000 a month but only sees the guy maybe 2 times a month for 1.5 hours at a time.

The SB is making roughly $266 more an hour than the escort. And even if it is 3 hours at a time the earnings per hour are close.

There are a few things brought up in the last few posts that I almost hesitate to bring up for fear of sounding judgmental...which is not my intent or the case at all.

I have a friend who is an escort. She's very good and a smart, pretty girl. While she claims to covet my situation, when I tell her the amount of time invested and its impact on my life, she loses interest and doesn't want to just come and hang out unless she's getting paid.

So, I invited another (non-escort) friend to join me at lunch with my benefactor. Over the course if a week or two she shares her idea for a new business. The next day, he gives me a check for $10k to give to her as seed money.

So friend number two mentions the $10k to friend number one and she wants to know why I never hook her up. THAT'S what I call Stripper Mentality and what they're calling Hooker Mentality.

I hung out with my benefactor for months before I got anything more than free food, drinks and great conversation. I endeared myself to him not because I wanted $, but because he truly fascinated me and he was truly interested in me. As we got to know each other better, we both saw ways that we could make each others' lives better and more enjoyable. It was never a situation where I even thought of what my hourly rate would be. I will tell you this...if I did add it up, it's have to sleep with a ton of guys at $1000 and hour to make the $ and benefits I get.

Which leads me back to my other point. Some girls just aren't comfortable sleeping with a bunch if guys, no matter how much more cash they'd make. Understandable.

However, I think some people here misconstrued Charlotte's comments I think she was merely saying that both parties have to be in the same page so neither feels like they're getting the "short end of the stick." A guy expecting a girl to be at his beck and call for $1500 is just as bad as a girl who takes $1500 upfront but then rarely makes herself available.

I think the security of a sure thing merits a huge discount. Like 50%. It's sort of the same as working for commission or being on salary. You might be able to make more on commission, but it's sure nice to get a paycheck just because you showed up.