OBAMA WON BITCHES! HA HA HA HA!!

[LordBeaverbrook]

Originally Posted by essence

What exactly do you mean by a 'European style of socialism'? How is it different to other forms of socialism?

Aha, I think I understand, the European style of sociliasm is not socialism at all, it is capitalism with a human face.

No, that can;t be right, it is a United States of Europe. No, that can;t be right.

Maybe it is a melting pot of emerging fascism in Greece and Nordic health care? Maybe not.

Maybe it is a UK right of centre conservative government. No, because even the labour party doesn't generally call itself socialist.

Maybe Thatcher and Churchill are the European socilists you had in mind. Plus Sarkozy in more recent times?

I think you need to learn a bit more before repeating your stupid simplistic repetitious lies.

http://energybulletin.net/stories/20...ou-might-think
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16583813
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbaicycoZ8A

Read, watch, listen, digest. Until you have done all that, fuck off.

Great advice, also, now that we have some continuity it is time to put the fallacious trope that, "The U.S. is broke, we have to balance the budget (need austerity) and must eliminate all deficits and debt and pay off the national debt". We don't. We are not "mortgaging our children's future".

That just isn't how it works (macro-economics that is) at all. Have you ever asked yourself why there is a difference between macro-economics and micro-economics and what that difference is? No, I'm sure you haven't. You just repeat that, "we have to balance the budget" because you think you understand that. Again, that is micro, the U.S. budget is macro and there are significant structural and accounting differences so until you understand that please STFU. Unfortunately, "your" Dick Cheney said it best, "deficits don't matter". As much as I detest the man he was basically correct. That is not to say that debt and deficits can't cause problems, but they mostly aren't the problems that everybody imagines and the solutions certainly aren't the simpleminded and easy ones that everybody suggests.

It doesn't matter where the deficits and debt come from, who foisted it on the American people now. What matters is that we get people back to work, grow the economy and grow out of these debts and deficits by not doing stupid things like starting more wars or deregulating ourselves into another recession.

Point of fact: Most modern households, businesses and non-macro governmental entities DO NOT balance their budgets and run deficits in perpetuity. They are called bonds, home loans, credit cards and educational loans.

Point of fact: The United States cannot go bankrupt unless the people and their elected representatives choose to not have the political will to pay the bills. This is an Accounting reality of a modern sovereign macro economy.

Point of fact: The U.S. has run deficits and had national debt for pretty much the entirety of it's 236 year history.

Point of fact: If we balance the budget, eliminate our deficits and pay off the national debt it will crater the economy. It has done that at least seven times in the past. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Satayana. "Ignorance of economics leads to policies that will destroy us all" - me.

Look it up, educate yourselves, then discuss it, please. The economy is too important to all of us to propose policies based on ignorance. If you care about the country you can start here - http://neweconomicperspectives.org/p...ry-primer.html.

[satexasguy]

austxjr, so based on what you're saying Greece, Spain and France really don't have an economic problem. Everything is just peachy with them huh?

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by markroxny

IB, as of last night around 10:30, you are irrelevant.

You're a dumb fuck, marks-rocks-with-pee. First you voted for Odumbo, and now you can't even spell "nemesis" correctly!

[LordBeaverbrook]

Originally Posted by satexasguy

let's see how long obama will keep blaming bush

Just because Obama has been President for four years (and now has four more) doesn't erase that. We need to acknowledge it and remember it or.... ""Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Satayana.

Bush and the Republican controlled Congresses he worked with (and Democrats are not blameless either certainly) did a lot to get us into this. WE NEED TO AVOID REPEATING THE POLICIES THAT GOT US THERE AGAIN. He started two wars and did the accounting off the books, he put a new entitlement (with the Republican controlled Congress) into law and he led us into a recession that was the worst economic problem since the Great Depression.

That said, we need to chart a new course that takes the best ideas of both parties, tests them and if and when they work, puts them into place to move the country forward. IMHO it is kind of in the Republican's court first since they control the House which is the budgetary authority for the country. They walked away from any compromise Obama agreed to in the last two years and obstructed anything Obama tried to do to help the economy (even things that Republican presidents had used and supported for the prior four decades) just to make him a one term President.

The Republican leadership of the Senate publicly (in their own words) made it their only goal in legislating (or not legislating) and governing to obstruct in order to make Obama a one term President. If the Republicans continue these attitudes that their policies are the only ones with any value and any compromise is completely unacceptable, then there is little Obama can really do (though there is some incentive for them not to take this approach for the next four years). It will be a very interesting next four years.

If the Republicans continues this and the electorate recognizes it, then the Republicans are likely to be forced to wander for forty years in the legislative and leadership wilderness and need their own Moses to lead them out again.

[bojulay]

Originally Posted by austxjr

Great advice, also, now that we have some continuity it is time to put the fallacious trope that, "The U.S. is broke, we have to balance the budget (need austerity) and must eliminate all deficits and debt and pay off the national debt". We don't. We are not "mortgaging our children's future".

That just isn't how it works (macro-economics that is) at all. Have you ever asked yourself why there is a difference between macro-economics and micro-economics and what that difference is? No, I'm sure you haven't. You just repeat that, "we have to balance the budget" because you think you understand that. Again, that is micro, the U.S. budget is macro and there are significant structural and accounting differences so until you understand that please STFU. Unfortunately, "your" Dick Cheney said it best, "deficits don't matter". As much as I detest the man he was basically correct. That is not to say that debt and deficits can't cause problems, but they mostly aren't the problems that everybody imagines and the solutions certainly aren't the simpleminded and easy ones that everybody suggests.

It doesn't matter where the deficits and debt come from, who foisted it on the American people now. What matters is that we get people back to work, grow the economy and grow out of these debts and deficits by not doing stupid things like starting more wars or deregulating ourselves into another recession.

Point of fact: Most modern households, businesses and non-macro governmental entities DO NOT balance their budgets and run deficits in perpetuity. They are called bonds, home loans, credit cards and educational loans.

Point of fact: The United States cannot go bankrupt unless the people and their elected representatives choose to not have the political will to pay the bills. This is an Accounting reality of a modern sovereign macro economy.

Point of fact: The U.S. has run deficits and had national debt for pretty much the entirety of it's 236 year history.

Point of fact: If we balance the budget, eliminate our deficits and pay off the national debt it will crater the economy. It has done that at least seven times in the past. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Satayana. "Ignorance of economics leads to policies that will destroy us all" - me.

Look it up, educate yourselves, then discuss it, please. The economy is too important to all of us to propose policies based on ignorance. If you care about the country you can start here - http://neweconomicperspectives.org/p...ry-primer.html.

The Chinese would agree with you. I'm sure.

Fuck, I bet Chinese is going to be a hard language
to have to learn.

Yes yes, The incremental decline is always the best choice.


ha ha ha ha

[LordBeaverbrook]

Originally Posted by satexasguy

austxjr, so based on what you're saying Greece, Spain and France really don't have an economic problem. Everything is just peachy with them huh?

Thanks for asking. They aren't true sovereign's because they don't control their own monetary policy. Because of the way that the E.U. is set up, European countries are more economically similar to states in the U.S. There are structural problems and inadequacies with the E.U. since it is a union and not a country or sovereign either. That is not to say it isn't workable and in fact they are working it out, painfully, and it may presage a new international economic model once most of the kinks are worked out. The question is can you have economic union without political union and if so (looks like no, not really) how do you structure it so the strong don't plunder and destroy the weak (and the weak and stupid don't destroy themselves and everyone along with them)?

BTW, it is what are called PIIGS - Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain that are the main concern. France is not part of that but has its own problems, but it has been remarkably economically successful and is likely to do so for decades to come despite the doom sayers - http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-832732.html

Greece caused many of its own problems, Spain's problems were mostly because of a huge real estate bubble and the meddling of non-Spanish banks. Italy has a productive economy, a dysfunctional political system and has stably run large deficits and debts for decades. Ireland was touted as an economic miracle until five or six years ago.

Looks like they are getting through those problems, but it will take quite a long time to return to significant economic growth overall. Even Germany is now having an industrial and manufacturing downturn. China is also facing serious economic issues that may presage a political crisis. If that happens it could significantly affect the world economy, but at least China hasn't gotten into full blown consumption mode yet to bring everyone down with them like the U.S. can do.

All macro economies are now fiat monetary systems and these operate differently (not necessarily better or worse, just different) from macro-economies based on a commodity. To understand macro-economics and how budgets, trades balances, deficits, debts, etc... work in today’s globalized world one needs to understand how the money works in an accounting sense. Pragmatic Capitalism is a good place to start - http://pragcap.com/understanding-modern-monetary-system

[LordBeaverbrook]

Originally Posted by bojulay

The Chinese would agree with you. I'm sure.

Fuck, I bet Chinese is going to be a hard language to have to learn.

Yes yes, The incremental decline is always the best choice.

ha ha ha ha

I'm sure they would, they are very smart and plan for decades or centuries. They have studied how macro-economies work since Bretton Woods and Nixon ended convertibility and will do what is best for themselves, obviously.

Incremental decline is always preferable to precipitous decline, but other countries raising themselves to our level isn't really decline and is somewhat inevitable. It is kind of like the U.S. Olympic basketball team. Has it declined? Yes, it has one year it declined, but also the other teams all became better. Isn't that what we want? Other countries to become more prosperous, free and democratic? That seems to be what is happening in fits and starts all over the world.

The basic fact is that China owns about 7% of total debt and foreign countries own about 33% of total U.S. debt. We could pay this off at any time instantly (though we might risk igniting inflation), remember, we create our own money. We don't need to borrow and we can set our own interest rates (remember, we create the money). This is a structural and accounting reality. The two things that really matter are employment and keeping inflation in an acceptable range so it doesn't hurt either borrowers or lenders too much. Our entire world economy is built on finance and lending so we need to manage that responsibly.

The Chinese will not take over the work or own it all. In fact, they really don't want to as hey have been famously xenophobic for centuries. They also have this little problem that they have about a Billion restless peasants who demand that their economic lot get at least a little better each year or at least they have the hope of a better education and life for their children. If the Chinese leadership doesn't continue to grow the economy they will have a serious internal political problem on their hands and likely revolts and revolutions with beheadings and massacres. They are fully aware of this and it is their #1 focus (stability and continued economic progress). I'm not at all concerned about the Chinese. They need us as much or more than we need them (someone else will manufacture our cheap goods like India or Africa if the Chinese don't).

Don't nastily and stupidly insinuate dumb stuff you don't understand. State your contentions or questions clearly and logically and maybe you can teach me something or illuminate some aspect of what is going on in the world that I didn't consider before. That wouldn't be near as much fun as being a snarky attacker though now would it?

[ChoomCzar]

Originally Posted by TexCockHog

Where are all the wingnut/Teabilly crowd like Whirly and Choom who assured us the pols were fucked up? Did their heads just spontaneously explode? At least if Obama had lost, I'd have had the decency to show my face and engage in the post mortem. I guess those who live in fantasy land and are so detached from reality just don't do that sort of thing. Or maybe they're still out sucking Dick Morris' of Fat Rush's dicks.

Here I am you stupid sow. I see your presence on the board was sporadic before the election....you didn't have the balls to show up very much.....HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

You do realize you'll never get tort reform overturned in Texas....you're fucked! Those 1099's from the insurance company will all be reported them the IRS......OF course, this assumes what you tell us is true! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

I acknowledge that the founding principles in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution are no longer in the DNA of the American people.....If that's the game, count me in.....nobody can rob and plunder his neighbor better than I!

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

[markroxny]

[timpage]

Originally Posted by ChoomCzar

Here I am you stupid sow. I see your presence on the board was sporadic before the election....you didn't have the balls to show up very much.....HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

You do realize you'll never get tort reform overturned in Texas....you're fucked! Those 1099's from the insurance company will all be reported them the IRS......OF course, this assumes what you tell us is true! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

I acknowledge that the founding principles in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution are no longer in the DNA of the American people.....If that's the game, count me in.....nobody can rob and plunder his neighbor better than I!

HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!

Seriously, get yourself to the hospital man. You need some help. Good luck.

[essence]

Originally Posted by bojulay

You are so right. We look like them so much already
that it's hard to tell us apart.


ha ha ha ha

I need to check, but I think one of my links above says that France and Germany combined export more than the US.

OK, check out my previous link at about 2:50 onwards. Germany and China are top of world exporters, and France and germany combined whallop china. OK, US has a large internal marketplace, but still....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbaicycoZ8A

[acp5762]

Looks like trying to imply that Obama was a muslim didn't work
Looks like the birther movement didn't work
Looks like asking for Obama's school records didn't work
Looks like implying that the president was lazy didn't work
Looks like trying to drum up a Benghazi conspiracy theory didn't work
Looks like clinging to the Rassmusen polls didn't work
Looks like the first debate didn't matter
Looks like calling Obama a liar didn't work
Looks like Dick Morris was wrong
Looks like Fox and Friends won't be able to have their Mittens party
Looks like Paul Ryan has to go back to the drawing board again
Looks like all the Koch brother's money didn't count for shit!

You listed all the things that didn't work. How about a list of what does work.

[markroxny]

Originally Posted by acp5762

You listed all the things that didn't work. How about a list of what does work.

When it comes to keeping Obama from getting re-elected....nothing worked.

[GQ Romantic]

In the great words and Music of Tom Petty;

It's time to move on, time to get going
What lies ahead, I have no way of knowing
But under my feet, baby, grass is growing
It's time to move on, it's time to get going

Time to unite and stand together. I am glad he won, but I will take a different way to express my joy by inviting us all to unite and lets get this nation moving so we can have more $ to have fun and enjoy life!

God bless our President, god Bless these united states!

[CuteOldGuy]

I'm sorry, but when a President proposes and enacts policies consistent with police state fascism, I will not unite with him. I will unite with the opposition.