It Works Soooo Well in Britain

[essence]

Originally Posted by gnadfly

I work for one of the biggest companies on the planet that has major interest on every continent.

Our European colleagues have supplemental insurance. To paraphrase them: The regular state health care system is great if you need a broken arm set. But you're in trouble if you have cancer.

The US has euthanasia its called hospice care. Its just drawn out a little.

I would modify this a little...NHS is excellent for serious problems, but private is best for minor non urgent issues.

Also US has euthanasia, it is called poverty and no insurance.

We Europeans are not sensitive, we are so sure of ourselves nothing from our young cousins will bother us, we just hope they will grow up and learn the proper way of doing things.

Like Moody downgrading all our banks, what a cheek.

But I wouldn't spend so much time in the US if I didn't secretly admire it, and admire my US colleagues, but I don't tell any of my UK friends that.

The health issue is probably the one thing on which we look at each other with complete incomprehension.

There is no doubt that for the very best health care I would go to the US.

But I'm not so sure what is best for the overall population. I see problems with both systems.

Your European colleagues seem pretty shitty. Are they French, by any chance? (we love the French really, like we love the Germans, we just like to tease them).

[mastermind238]

Originally Posted by essence

So, you have an obsessive disorder with regards to 'the fucking constitution' and you don't acknowledge that nurses in US murder old people every day in much larger numbers than the UK.

What is your evidence that government drives up prices in NHS? OK, I see, it is simply your simplistic prejudices extrapolated onto systems of which you have no experience.

Good work, batman.

Four legs good, two legs bad.

Capitalism good, government bad.

It's desparate.

No comments on whether the Dr Patrick is a good witness or not? Total neglect of the evidence-based information I provided you with?

God Almighty. Am I talking to a moron here? Learning disabled? If this was directed at me, and I see no reason to believe it wasn't, then my advice to you, you fucking Brit, is don't EVER call my Constitution the FUCKING Constitution. And CAPITALIZE the word "Constitution."

First, when nurses murder patients in the US, it isn't because the state mandates or even allows it. That it happens is irrelevant to my point. That it DOESN'T happen with the blessing of the state IS my point. Get it? When these nurses are caught, they are prosecuted and severely punished. What a fucking moronic line of argument.

Second, I don't need evidence that government drives up prices in the NHS, because I never made that charge, nor even intimated that that's the case. I gave you examples of the effect of competition in the US MARKET, you moron. Do I even know if Lasik or Ultrafast CT are available in the socialist paradise of Britain? No I don't. You challenged me to come up with a better system FOR THE USA, and I gave you at least the start of such a system. For all I care you and your NHS can fucking rot.

And finally, I'll comment on whether I think Dr. Patrick is a good witness when I have evidence that YOU have read and digested the writings of the two creeps that Obama turned to for advice on re-inventing healthcare in the US - Berwick and Emanuel. Whether the British NHS is a cesspool is of far less consequence to me, as an AMERICAN, than whether modern-day Mengeles like Berwick and Emanuel are allowed to define my access to healthcare.

[essence]

Like I say, you are obsessed with your fucking constitution like a religious zealot.

It's like the pharisees who objected to Jesus healing on the sabbath, because some book said it is not allowed.

So people like me have to bail out my US friends for their health care because the US is not able to construct a civilised health service for its people, unlike any other western democracy.

In short, you hide behind this 'constitution' crap because you just don't like it.

I don't think a person undergoing euthanasia cares whether it is because of 'lack of state funding' or because their poverty means they have no insurance is probably not something they care about, one way or another they die.

By the way, euthanasia does not occur in the UK with the blessing of the state, as you well know. Tried to slip that one in, did you?

So tell me, given that unchecked health costs will always greatly exceed any funding, how are those costs controlled in the US?

If I want to get a dick enhancement (or reduction in my case), can I get it on my insurance?

You seem to be completely blind to the fact that whatever system, there have to be some cost controls.

The issue is who or what body or committee determines those cost controls.

Geddit?

From my limited understanding, when you sign up for medical insurance, the insurance company stipulates what is and is not covered. Like pre existing problems (which the NHS has no problem with).

So why would you prefer insurance companies decide rather than a committee of doctors like NICE?

Maybe there's not much difference, but this thread seems to criticise NHS cost control whilst being blind to any cost controls in the US.

Jesus had something to say about sepulchres, I think.

Remember this all started as a rant against the UK NHS based on some catholic extremist doctor who was mis reported.

[mastermind238]

Originally Posted by essence

From my limited understanding...

You said it. I didn't.

[CuteOldGuy]

His understanding is limited to the point of being non-existent. He can order a fine wine to go with his escargot, but that's all he can communicate sensibly in or about the US. Just stay in Europe. Don't worry, we'll be there when your ass is in trouble again.

[mastermind238]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

Don't worry, we'll be there when your ass is in trouble again.

Or when he needs a good dentist.

[essence]

This is more interesting than the infantile bullying above which doesn't address any of the issues I raise.

You seem to be completely incapable of thinking outside your little box, and resort to insults.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...ders-warn.html

ps. just watched a great set by Tom Petty at the Isle of Wight festival.

[CuteOldGuy]

Ringing endorsement of your system, isn't it? The drug companies are upset because you're buying from them and selling it on the open market for a profit.

[essence]

In case you think

(a) the NHS is perfect, or that I think it is perfect

(b) all Europeans follow the same system

the following is interesting, particularly the discussions about different funding models and different experiences in different countries.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...he-system.html

As I said before, luckily I have private health insurance for getting around the problems with the NHS.

My only problem is with those who see no reason to reform the US system, and can make no constructive evidence-based comments.

Quote from the comments in the link above:

No sensible country would seek to emulate either the UK or US systems.

[essence]

Originally Posted by mastermind238

Or when he needs a good dentist.

For your information, adults have to pay a fee to see the dentist, not the full cost, but still significant. A few hundred dollars for a tooth extraction.

Also, you seem to have missed the other threads where there are comments by myself and others about the path to knowledge being ignorance, and nothing worse than a know all who won;t admit his ignorance. Somebody quoted Locke.

Here we go - quoted by bundman (?)

Locke:
he who thinks he knows is a fool, shun him. He who thinks he knows not is a wise man, follow him.

Of course, y'all love Locke because he influenced the founding fathers, even your fucking constitution and your fucking declaration of independence, and CoG will especially love him because he influenced modern libertarianism. So, lets us share a cup for all those who are happy to admit their ignorance, yet seek to learn.

ps I would have no problem at all if you said things like 'your fucking trollop whore queen' or made similar attacks on other so-called props of society, or burnt our flag or anything similar. We have something called freedom of speech.

If you attacked the Magna Carta, I might feel some curiosity, but that was a long time ago.

No sensitivity here, I just keep rolling.

[WTF]

Originally Posted by essence

My only problem is with those who see no reason to reform the US system, and can make no constructive evidence-based comments.

.

Exactly.

They think the system we have is ok...and it is breaking us. Not that Obamacare was a fix. But these Tea Nuts do not have a clue as to how shitty our present system is.

[CuteOldGuy]

Essence quote: "even your fucking constitution and your fucking declaration of independence"

How about, when you're back in the States, find a local bar in Houston, or wherever, with several motorcycles out front. Go inside, and say that again.

When you are able to type again, share the experience with us, because I'm sure many of us would like to be there to watch.

Just sayin'.

[mastermind238]

Originally Posted by WTF

Exactly.

They think the system we have is ok..

Nothing could be further from the truth, but when did that ever stop you?

If we thought that, then why would John McCain have proposed such a sweeping change in 2008. Ah ... you don't remember his plan, do you? Too blinded by Obamao's pearly whites? As far as you know (or care to know) John McCain didn't say shit about our broken healthcare system in '08, did he?

http://healthpolicyandmarket.blogspo...ns-health.html

No. It's too convenient for you lefties to set up a straw man - that all us Tea Partiers think the status quo is just peachy. Yeah, we're all just thrilled that our health insurance premiums have more than doubled in the last 10 years.

McCain's plan came down to a fairly complicated set of accounting maneuvers that, in the end would have gone long way towards making health insurance portable.

[WTF]

I realize that McCain did what he did, I agreed with it and Obama painted him as selling workers down the drain. Pure politics and it it/was bad for the country.You should be taxed on that benifit as income , just as self employed people are.
My belief is that though McCain proposed it, none of you nitwits would agree with it. Just like McCain proposed immigration reform and you Tea Nuts beat him over the head with it.

[CuteOldGuy]

This is a quote from my other thread. The author uses the term liberal to refer to a classic liberal, or small-L libertarian.

An example of this is medical insurance. Government has regulated every aspect of medicine and insurance for years. As a result, demand and hence prices have gone up past the point they would have gone in a free market, pricing some people out of the fettered market. When a liberal advocates removing the tangled web of regulations, taxes, and subsidies, and letting the free and competitive market operate, the statist objects that this idea won’t immediately enable everyone to have affordable health insurance and medical care. The same argument is made about Social Security. Translation: My side bollixed things up terribly, but since your side can’t resolve everything smoothly and painlessly by tomorrow, my side should continue calling the shots.

Government creates the problem, then government must solve the problem with more government. Doesn't make sense, does it?