How to get and give a reference - yes I KNOW this has been discussed

[Bristal]

Originally Posted by lowrad

You nailed it. So much easier in Canada with none of the above mentioned concerns.


Bristol, I know messages on forums are easy to misinterpret, I think it is a loss for me and the providers. I respect the "Norm" in KC and choose to not conform to it. I think the KC providers can do as they wish. I hope my message was received in the way i intended.

I think my message may have been misinterpreted also, tone is one important thing lost with all this. My response was a slightly sarcastic joke, I admit my delivery was lost without my adorable smile and laugh. I also should probably not post at 3am after hours of homework and zero working brain cells. So........ no hard feelings?

Originally Posted by lowrad

Sounds like we are in violent agreement here.
There are risk to both sides. Draconian laws in the US suck. People screen in all cities. I've never needed to been screened, but times may be changing.

Bristol, MsElana, and others have me thinking about P411, I've reviewed the sign up twice since I posted to this thread. Looks like it would be much less painful to my concerns if I have two P411 references or an invite. <- I'll work on that.

I've listened to other points of view and see their validity. I'm done posting to this thread, I think

PM me if you feel the need to tell me I'm wrong, encourage me, or warn me against P411.

I think P411 would be a very valid option for you. It is not a iron clad fix to all hobby screening but for many guys it is a great system. I find the easiest appointments for me to book are through P411. Initially for you some extra info may be needed by some providers, but I think it is safe to say after 2-4 okays you are pretty much "good to go" by most. Feel free to pm/email me with any questions,opinions,etc. I posted this info here as I felt my opinion MAY be helpful to others with screening concerns. Just my .02

[Missy Mariposa]

My blood boils when I see "easier in Canada". It really is - however it shouldn't be as easy as it is. LE isn't the concern there - it's assholes that rape and rob women. The M word comes up sometimes too. The first year I worked in Vancouver 3 providers were murdered (2 AMP girls, 1 indy who had retired). One was found in the trunk of a car, one is completely unsolved, and one was not work related, which took forever to find out, but of course her work was spread all over the news regardless. 2 of the well known indys were also assaulted by the same guy, and a third narrowly escaped.

But I'm off topic - Just because YOU are a reputable person doesn't mean everyone is - and seeing as we all only get one life, it's not worth taking gambles and seeing anyone who says they have three hundred bucks.

I still screen in Canada, and I'm sure I get less business because of it. But I don't care. I've been robbed twice, assaulted once - at work and by middle age white guys who are "unsuspecting". I am NOT compromising my safety because you don't want to give me what I require up there (a review board handle that shows you've seen some reputable providers that you can prove you own, references, OR a p411/d-c handle - not ALL of those either, just one mind you - and people STILL complain).

That being said - despite all of this, I can still work with a "clearer" mind in Canada not having to worry about being arrested over a misunderstanding.

[MsElena]

Originally Posted by ezgoindude

You're absolutely right, Elena. Didn't mean to whine or imply that you don't have reason to be paranoid. You do and as clients we do as well. The environment I described is real and are not the least of reasons to be aware. Personal safety is a concern for all of us. As men we tend to forget that, but something that a woman never does.

Still, don't be mislead by the hype. LE is not all powerful. They have limited resources and despite the zealous individuals that control the purse strings are mostly not interested in stamping out the activity entirely. Just looking good, staying employed, keeping the public happy and yes, safe while feeling a sense of moral superiority over those they target.

Regarding personal safety most people are not violent criminals and are not interested in hurting you. The few however give good reason to be careful. Which is the point. Do your homework. Research, screen, get to know the scene that you hobby in, and enjoy being a rebel. If, and it's a big if, you know what you are doing the risks are low albeit nonzero.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the LE thing.

LE is powerful to a point, they can still make life hard for most ladies out there. Hobbyists are more in danger of LE making life hard for them, but some don't seem too worried about that.

This has been an enlightening thread and not in a good way......for me at least.

[Guest080613]

Originally Posted by MsElena

Hahaha BD yes, I use to pimp you back then. You still owe me money, gimme my money bitch!!


FS said it best both times, but I especially love the......its not paranoia if they are truly after you.

While you're both right the question isn't if you're paranoid it's a question of if you're paranoid enough to not get tagged.

I use P411 and then also reference my handle here and have never had a problem that I can remember but in reference to the OP it brings up a good point.

You ladies say none of our information is ever kept anywhere (well, a LOT of you do) and it's deleted after verifying references. Yet SOTF says that if she's contacted for references she needs quite a lot of information while at the same time says "sorry, but you can't expect me to remember you".

OK. I can buy that. Not every guy can make the earth move for you like I can. (a legend in my own mind....)

So given this information it jogs your memory, or do you have a crib sheet you look things up on? I'm serious about this. If you question why I bring it up think back a few years ago about a certain provider in Topeka that had some of her electronic devices compromised.

I'm well aware that in many cases the ladies, while certainly concerned about them, are not STRICTLY worried about LE. In fact, that's probably not their main concern. There are bad people in this hobby and the ladies put themselves in a very vulnerable position for people that want to do bad things to them. It's not anything to be taken lightly and I understand the need to be cautious.

As far as the comment on KC, it's no different than anywhere else I've ever been as far as getting referenced. If you don't want to give up references, there's always BP and good luck to you on that.

I still contend that if you want to hobby, join P411. Be a "known" poster on one of the boards so the ladies can tie the two together and get a feel for what you're like, and then have good, dirty fun together.

Jack

[KCQuestor]

[Deleted]

I hate when I respond to a post on the first page without realizing that there are more pages and that the topic has been covered to death.

[SinsOfTheFlesh]

Originally Posted by ksjack

While you're both right the question isn't if you're paranoid it's a question of if you're paranoid enough to not get tagged.

I use P411 and then also reference my handle here and have never had a problem that I can remember but in reference to the OP it brings up a good point.

You ladies say none of our information is ever kept anywhere (well, a LOT of you do) and it's deleted after verifying references. Yet SOTF says that if she's contacted for references she needs quite a lot of information while at the same time says "sorry, but you can't expect me to remember you".

OK. I can buy that. Not every guy can make the earth move for you like I can. (a legend in my own mind....)

So given this information it jogs your memory, or do you have a crib sheet you look things up on? I'm serious about this. If you question why I bring it up think back a few years ago about a certain provider in Topeka that had some of her electronic devices compromised.

I'm well aware that in many cases the ladies, while certainly concerned about them, are not STRICTLY worried about LE. In fact, that's probably not their main concern. There are bad people in this hobby and the ladies put themselves in a very vulnerable position for people that want to do bad things to them. It's not anything to be taken lightly and I understand the need to be cautious.

As far as the comment on KC, it's no different than anywhere else I've ever been as far as getting referenced. If you don't want to give up references, there's always BP and good luck to you on that.

I still contend that if you want to hobby, join P411. Be a "known" poster on one of the boards so the ladies can tie the two together and get a feel for what you're like, and then have good, dirty fun together.

Jack

No, I really don't have a crib sheet, and that is what causes the problem most of the time. A phone number is meaningless to me, so when I get an email saying "Jack gave me your name as a reference, his number is 555-1234", unless Jack is a regular who I see on a very regular basis, a phone number and a first name won't mean a thing to me. Now, if Jack includes the fact that he saw me last month, and he was the guy who brought a bottle of wine with him (or any other detail that would be memorable), chances are, I will remember that. I have a time frame to work from, so I know if its been a week or 6 months since I saw him, and there is enough detail so that I'm likely to remember him specifically.

This discussion sort of meandered off course, but the original issue I brought up was that I had a sudden rash of reference requests that provided nothing more than an ECCIE handle - coming from men who had never GIVEN me their ECCIE handle. No matter how good my memory is, there is no way I can connect the man I saw in real life, to a handle I did not know he had.

The steps to making the reference system should be very simple.

1. Contact your reference first. Let her know you are giving someone her name. Now she knows who she is referencing, and she knows to expect a reference.

2. When giving the lady your reference information, give her the same information you gave your reference - regardless of what that info is - name, phone number, email, board handles, etc.

It really shouldn't be that complicated, yet somehow it is. That was the point of my original post.

[Citori]

I know it's not my thread but since I posted I thought I'd tell the Ladies, I did get a P411 account.

Peer pressure

[MsElena]

LOL You caved into peer pressure. Feels like HS all over again huh?

[Citori]

MsElena,

I have business in your town, that may require me to do a site visit.

I'm sure you can show me some pressure

[MsElena]

LOL Oh darlin', if you only knew the pressure I could apply.

[1hungkcmale4u]

[QUOTE=MsElena;2097298]Ladies are paranoid wherever you go, its just not in KC and we have every reason to be paranoid. Tell ya what, you pay all my future legal bills and take care of my bills the rest of my life and then I won't have to screen as thorough as I do.

Are you going to pay my legal bills when the feds knock down your door and pull all of your customer's (mine as well) personal info off your harddrive or little black book? :-)

[Guest102513-1]

Somehow, I don't think MsElena is going to have to worry about the feds knocking down her door. No inside info...just an intelligent hunch

I have not seen her, and may never see her. But I will say this, if I could pick a handful of providers, who had me in their little black book, and they unfortunately did get busted, she would be one of those hand picked ones I would feel the most comfortable with.

And I think both she and I would both agree, I'm not some WKing guy, who always backs MsElena

We have had our agreements and disagreements...

[1hungkcmale4u]

LOL, it was meant as a joke, thus the smiley face. A girl has to do what she has to do to protect herself, but so do we ;-)

[Guest102513-1]

Hey 1hungkc....sorry, I miss the nature of your post

First to admit....I'm terrible about picking up sarcasm, again my bad, lol

[1hungkcmale4u]

no harm, no foul and most people miss my dry humor (sarcasm), lol