If The Rich Would Pay Their Fair Share

[aroundaustin]

Originally Posted by Booth

When the cost of production goes down, how many businesses pass those savings along to consumers? All of them, most of them, a few of them? This is not intended to be a rhetorical question - I'd really like to know.

Should the profit margin be high, it gives incentive for more competition to enter a market. It's the grass is greener on your side of the fence thing. More competition means prices will be lowered. Remember, prices are a product of the forces of supply and demand.

So, in the short term the Fair Tax will result in higher profit margins but over time prices will come down as competition heats up. In addition to this supply side analysis there is also a demand issue. If prices remain the same and consumers are being hit with the Fair Tax to boot then demand will drop which causes a drop in prices to follow.

I'm not worried about prices remaining the same. I trust the laws of supply and demand which give me confidence that they will fall.

[F-Sharp]

Just like gasoline and electricity...the more you use, the more expensive it becomes. Supply and <gulp> demand.

You'd be better off putting your trust in wooden nickels. Watch what happens when companies like Exxon, GE, Boeing, Verizon, or Bank of America who currently pay zero tax dollars are forced to pay a Fair Tax of 20% or more. Most of America relies on these companies for one thing or another, and that supply chain will get passed on to you and me. You think the 70's were bad?

Ha!

Originally Posted by aroundaustin

I'm not worried about prices remaining the same. I trust the laws of supply and demand which give me confidence that they will fall.

[Wrangler58]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

Just like gasoline and electricity...the more you use, the more expensive it becomes. Supply and <gulp> demand.

You'd be better off putting your trust in wooden nickels. Watch what happens when companies like Exxon, GE, Boeing, Verizon, or Bank of America who currently pay zero tax dollars are forced to pay a Fair Tax of 20% or more. Most of America relies on these companies for one thing or another, and that supply chain will get passed on to you and me. You think the 70's were bad?

Ha!

That's absolutely right. Raising taxes on corporations is akin to raising taxes on the people who buy their products. They will have to raise their prices to maintain profitability. It will happen, and if you try to make the terms of doing business here too onerous, they will simply take more and more of their business overseas where business conditions are favorable, costing us more jobs.

Also, all of these sin taxes (cigarettes, liquor, beer, fatty foods) are also taxes on the poor, as they are the primary consumers of these products.

All this bullshit about disincenting the wealthy from staying in the US and spending their money on goods and services here just goes to show how concerned for "the people" that the tax and spend politicians really are.

[F-Sharp]

I think you're missing the point. GE made $14.2 billion in profits last year. Boeing made $3.3 billion, and Bank of America, $10 billion. This is pure after expenditure, after payroll profit. You care to explain to me and others following along why corporations such as these need to pass along their fair share of tax burden to the consumer while making profits such as these? 20% of $14.2 is $2.8 billion, which would still leave GE with $11.4 billion of our money in their pockets. Passing that expense on to the consumer, or sending American jobs overseas while retaining such a large amount in profit is inexcusable. Greed is the only justification for it.

Originally Posted by Wrangler58

That's absolutely right. Raising taxes on corporations is akin to raising taxes on the people who buy their products. They will have to raise their prices to maintain profitability. It will happen, and if you try to make the terms of doing business here too onerous, they will simply take more and more of their business overseas where business conditions are favorable, costing us more jobs.

Also, all of these sin taxes (cigarettes, liquor, beer, fatty foods) are also taxes on the poor, as they are the primary consumers of these products.

All this bullshit about disincenting the wealthy from staying in the US and spending their money on goods and services here just goes to show how concerned for "the people" that the tax and spend politicians really are.

[Wrangler58]

Whatever the motivation, it's the reality of the world we live in.

You also have to remember that a lot of the shareholders of these corporations are regular people like you and me with money in a 401K. Harming the companies that are actually doing well is bad for the economy and hurt the regular folks who are the investors in those companies.

I'm not against them paying a flat tax that is equitable, but punitive taxes on corporations are counterproductive for the reasons I mentioned in the last post.

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by Wrangler58

You also have to remember that a lot of the shareholders of these corporations are regular people like you and me with money in a 401K.

More than 50% of families in this country currently make $45,000 a year or less. These "shareholders" are more concerned about eating and keeping a roof over their heads than they are about stock prices.

I would hardly say 35% could be called "punitive", even if they actually paid it, which they don't. They were paying 70% during Nixon, and 50% until Reagan took office.

[theaustinescorts]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

Key portion to that statement, "...and re-distribute their tax burdon to others." The Teabaggers among us are already screaming SOCIALISM! They either do it, or the government needs to do it through taxation and social programs. Either way, it NEEDS to be done.

Not socialism at all.

When all taxes on businesses are eliminated new revenue will be taken this way:

1.A 1% sales tax on all speculative financial transactions.

2.elimination of capital gains credits. Capital gains treated like other income.

3.Marginal rates return to pre-Bush levels.

4.I also favor tariffs on some imports but don't think it's practical anymore.

[F-Sharp]

Are you suggesting treating corporate income differently than personal income? Many multi-nationals are already paying little to nothing in Federal tax dollars. And how does eliminating taxes on capital gains benefit anyone in the bottom 80% of earners whose primary source of income is not from investments?

I fail to see how this would make any difference, much less help balance out the enormous earnings discrepancy we currently have. Just sounds like good old fashioned Reaganomics to me.

Originally Posted by theaustinescorts

Not socialism at all.

When all taxes on businesses are eliminated new revenue will be taken this way:

1.A 1% sales tax on all speculative financial transactions.

2.elimination of capital gains credits. Capital gains treated like other income.

3.Marginal rates return to pre-Bush levels.

4.I also favor tariffs on some imports but don't think it's practical anymore.

[theaustinescorts]

Speculation needs to be taxed.

Production should not be.

That's how it works.

Yes many large corporations avoid paying much tax now, but only by negotiating a maze of tax laws, the process of which is un-productive.

We need more production, more exports, less importation.

ps....

Having worked in governmnet in the Reagan years let me speak to his "legend."

His deregulation of finacial markets ruined us.
His union busting ruined us.
His anti-communist zeal led to a lot of ordinary people in Afganistan and Central America being killed and maimed.
His wreckless rhetoric almost led to a nuclear war on more than one occassion.
His sentimental obcession with hostages caused him to dispose of his own "principles," which I guess weren't really all that important to him.

On the other hand his Justice Department did send 1,000 dishonest bankers to jail. That's because the bureaucracy itself was not as systemically corrupt as it is today.

Oh and another thing...

When I worked in government we would have never tortured anyone, or sent anyone somewhere to be tortured on our orders.

We never would have done that.

Every part of our government has gone down the tubes morally, just as the whole society has become more callous and corrupt.