Our race to the bottom continues...

[Guest040616]

Originally Posted by budman33

fair enough, but can you agree that you have a fair idea what happens when corporations can pay not only no taxes but get billions in refunds due to incentives? They are sitting on trillions of cash but I dont see them going out and creating jobs. it's their money so they are hoarding it and waiting to see where the chips fall in my opinion instead of helping, which is what we're told every day by the 'news' channels that they will do if we only give them even heartier tax breaks.

Actually many of those corporations are creating jobs!

In China!

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

This is where I'm still sitting on the fence. I've read the arguments made by both sides but still haven't seen anything conclusive of whether or not our economy would be better by making Corporations pay more taxes.

Actually you have seen it...it's called recent history. In every single case where conservatives have attempted to cut taxes while at the same time increasing spending, it's caused a lack of revenue that ultimately brought on recession. Again, this is 100% of the time in the last 50 years. Each time this has happened, taxes were ultimately increased to raise revenue and the economy soared as a result. Economic stability creates confidence. Confidence ultimately generates spending.

Private sectors hoard profits, while government spends. It's spending that keeps our economy growing, not hoarding. The more cash that gets spread around, the better our economy works. This is exactly opposite of what we have now with 1% of the population hoarding 40% of all the wealth and keeping it amongst themselves. Nothing being's spread around and our economy is at a stand-still with only 1% that are truly prospering on the backs of everyone else. What's making the problem exponentially worse is much of that wealth is now being moved overseas. The ONLY way to force these hoarders to spend and circulate those profits here at home is through taxation.

GE made $14.2 billion in profits last year. What are they doing with $14.2 billion?

Exxon Mobil made $2.6 billion in profits in 2009.

Remember folks, this is PROFIT, after expense, after payroll, oozing dripping buring a hole in your pocket PROFIT. Profit that neither of these companies are paying a single penny of in Federal tax dollars. So what are they doing with this profit? Two things, paying it in dividends to a very small percentage of our population that can afford to buy their stock (hoarding), and expanding their businesses everywhere but here.

Capitalism only works if the money is spent at home. Key word. SPENT, not hoarded.

[Yssup Rider]

It's blackmail. And ...

wait for it ...

wait for it ...


TREASON!

I don't know how other states would treat these money hoarding assholes, but in Texas, well, it might be a lot uglier...

Just sayin, MoFo!

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

Actually you have seen it...it's called recent history. In every single case where conservatives have attempted to cut taxes while at the same time increasing spending, it's caused a lack of revenue that ultimately brought on recession. Again, this is 100% of the time in the last 50 years. Each time this has happened, taxes were ultimately increased to raise revenue and the economy soared as a result. Economic stability creates confidence. Confidence ultimately generates spending.

Private sectors hoard profits, while government spends. It's spending that keeps our economy growing, not hoarding. The more cash that gets spread around, the better our economy works. This is exactly opposite of what we have now with 1% of the population hoarding 40% of all the wealth and keeping it amongst themselves. Nothing being's spread around and our economy is at a stand-still with only 1% that are truly prospering on the backs of everyone else. What's making the problem exponentially worse is much of that wealth is now being moved overseas. The ONLY way to force these hoarders to spend and circulate those profits here at home is through taxation.

GE made $14.2 billion in profits last year. What are they doing with $14.2 billion?

Exxon Mobil made $2.6 billion in profits in 2009.

Remember folks, this is PROFIT, after expense, after payroll, oozing dripping buring a hole in your pocket PROFIT. Profit that neither of these companies are paying a single penny of in Federal tax dollars. So what are they doing with this profit? Two things, paying it in dividends to a very small percentage of our population that can afford to buy their stock (hoarding), and expanding their businesses everywhere but here.

Capitalism only works if the money is spent at home. Key word. SPENT, not hoarded.

As I've stated, I most certainly don't hold myself out to be an expert on economics. Having said that, I feel it's a bit more complicated than you make it out to be. For instance, where do small businesses fit into your theory?
http://economics.about.com/od/income...porate_tax.htm

Of course the idea that GE or Apple or any of the Oil Companies, in other words Corporations that don't fall under the small business umbrella, should pay their fare share of taxes is one that I won't argue with.

Should U.S. jobs be going to China? Of course not! Yet Obama has done nothing to stem that flow. I personally stopped doing business with a company after it moved it's manufacturing to Vietnam. I'm much more vigilant now on checking where a product is made before I buy and I try to buy American when possible.

Nothing irritates me more when I call a customer support number for a large U.S. Corporation only to talk to someone in a call center located in India. As if we don't have thousands of Americans in this country that would be happy to fulfill that job.
Yet, I also know the downside to unions that you seem to hold in such high esteem. Having worked a job that required me to fly commercial every single day, 5 days a week averaging 2-4 flights per day, I got to see up close and personal what the Flight Attendants Union had accomplished. At one point, many flight attendants could literally work one week per month and still make $60,000+ per year. You can look at the Steel Workers Union or the Auto workers unions and see what an impact they had.
Can this lead to Corporations looking to move their operations overseas where labor is cheaper? Of course it can. Do I believe that workers should be exploited? No but the fact is, we have a problem in this country not being able to find a reasonable middle ground. Corporations want more profits, workers want higher wages, even when those wages and working conditions oftentimes are far beyond what the average American with a comparable education level would have.
So at times unions can be their own worst enemy. I've been part of an "association" here in Texas and saw this first hand when we would enter in negotiations on behalf of our membership. Nothing was ever good enough even when our pay and benefits far exceeded the majority of workers in this state with the same job.

Just ONCE I'd like to see the President of the United States speak honestly and openly to the public. When you stand behind that podium blasting greedy Corporations, how about addressing greedy unions as well. You'll never see that out of this President.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Just ONCE I'd like to see the President of the United States speak honestly and openly to the public. When you stand behind that podium blasting greedy Corporations, how about addressing greedy unions as well. You'll never see that out of this President.

Don't think we've had any straight talk from a president since Eisenhower ... except maybe for Carter.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by Yssup Rider

Don't think we've had any straight talk from a president since Eisenhower ... except maybe for Carter.

So the answer is keeping Obama in office despite the fact that he's proven to be no more honest or productive than other Presidents? Or is it that he's the lesser of the evils compared to who's running against him?
These points bring me back to what I've mentioned previously. If we're basing whom we elect as President on who will be the lesser of the evils, then our system is broken.
We know for a fact that Obama has done nothing to:
1. Address the woeful education system in our country. (Hint: Throwing money at the problem won't fix it)
2. Address the issue of American jobs being lost to overseas labor.
3. Ensure reform of the major financial institutions that helped lead us into the 2008 financial crisis.
4. Take the lead on a balanced budget amendment
5. Reduce the amount of influence of special interest and lobbying groups in Washington.
6. Educate himself on how to fight wars of insurgency (Hint: Throwing money at the problem won't fix it).

The list goes on and on. I'm not implying that Perry, Romney or Bachman would be any better but is this really what our political process has become? Picking the one that's not quite as terrible as the others?
If that's the case then it truly is time for a change, not of candidates but of our entire political system.

[WyldemanATX]

Hell lets just tell them fucking corporations that if they are to do business in the USA. Then they have to pay 90% of all profits to the Government. That she get them all running to set up shop to spread the wealth.

[Yssup Rider]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

It truly is time for a change, not of candidates but of our entire political system.

That's good food for thought.

Meanwhile, let's not shoot ourselves in the foot to spite our faith.

[DTorrchia]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

Capitalism only works if the money is spent at home. Key word. SPENT, not hoarded.

Ahhh, an interesting point. You know, the same could be said for illegal Immigration. You tried to convince us that illegals actually contribute more to the U.S. economy than the financial cost they place on our system. Yet according to many studies, Remittances from Illegal Aliens back to Mexico account for the THIRD LARGEST SOURCE OF INCOME FOR THE MEXICAN ECONOMY.
"Remittances are the third largest source of income for Mexico, after petroleum and tourism, amounting to between six and eight billion dollars each year, according to the Migration Policy Institute."
That's 8 BILLION Dollars annually that is NOT being spent here in the United States. Those numbers are based on the Migration Policy Institute. Search the net for 5 minutes and you'll see figures ranging as high as 18-20 Billion. Whatever numbers you choose to believe, all studies agree that remittances constitute a significant portion of income for the Mexican economy.
But I guess your view on Capitalism only applies to our Corporations and NOT to Illegal Aliens living here in the United States?

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Ahhh, an interesting point. You know, the same could be said for illegal Immigration. You tried to convince us that illegals actually contribute more to the U.S. economy than the financial cost they place on our system.

Let's get something straight right now. I didn't try and convince anybody of anything. The studies I posted clearly state this information and anyone's welcome to challenge that data. I happen to consider the Comptrollers Office of Texas a far more reliable and believeable source than let's say, a right-wing blog, but you're welcome to believe what you want.

Originally Posted by DTorrchia

Yet according to many studies, Remittances from Illegal Aliens back to Mexico account for the THIRD LARGEST SOURCE OF INCOME FOR THE MEXICAN ECONOMY.
"Remittances are the third largest source of income for Mexico, after petroleum and tourism, amounting to between six and eight billion dollars each year, according to the Migration Policy Institute."

That's 8 BILLION Dollars annually that is NOT being spent here in the United States. Those numbers are based on the Migration Policy Institute. Search the net for 5 minutes and you'll see figures ranging as high as 18-20 Billion. Whatever numbers you choose to believe, all studies agree that remittances constitute a significant portion of income for the Mexican economy.
But I guess your view on Capitalism only applies to our Corporations and NOT to Illegal Aliens living here in the United States?

Fail.
http://www.ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/mexico

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by Wyldeman30

Hell lets just tell them fucking corporations that if they are to do business in the USA. Then they have to pay 90% of all profits to the Government. That she get them all running to set up shop to spread the wealth.

The marginal tax rate was 91% until 1963 and was 70% as late as 1981. Are trying to say our economy was complete shit until Reagan took office?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

[WyldemanATX]

Originally Posted by F-Sharp

The marginal tax rate was 91% until 1963 and was 70% as late as 1981. Are trying to say our economy was complete shit until Reagan took office?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/151.html

Ya I say those fuckers should only get an allowance. We should all just work for the Government. Fuck the American Dream lets become devoted slaves to the man.

[F-Sharp]

Originally Posted by Wyldeman30

Ya I say those fuckers should only get an allowance. We should all just work for the Government. Fuck the American Dream lets become devoted slaves to the man.

The marginal tax rate effects the top 2% or so of our entire U.S. population. "Dream" sums it up rather well.

[WyldemanATX]

Well what is 2% of 2 million? That is still a lot of people is it not? So should we just kill it so no one else can have it? So as I said just quit dreaming and settle for mediocrity and lets just give it all to the government. As you have stated time and time again they know how to over spend our money better than we do. Slaves to the government they see no race at all just power.

[Yssup Rider]

Bag of hammers.