~ 2017-2018 San Antonio Spurs Superthread ~

[Xesaddict]

Pro ball is a business first and foremost. In my opinion, R.C. And Pop have done amazing job in a small market. Getting big Dave and 21 via the draft certainly was a major factor in team staying competitive all these years but look at what Pop has done with players that were not franchise types when drafted: Tony, Manu, D.G., and, most of all, Kawahi. Remember, we basically traded George Hill for him, and he was not the player then he came to be now. You may not be a Pop fan, but you really cannot question his ability to recognize and develop talent. 20 straight years in the playoffs has to count for something when evaluating Pop.

[00 gauge]

Driving around San Antonio today and all the ESPN radio hacks could regurgitate was how Lebron wants to go to Golden State, stating that would be his first choice, and all I could think about was the constant lack of respect ESPN has given the Spurs over the years ..... seems the Warriors or whatever team Lebron is on at the moment, those teams are the only ones worth talking about ..... anywho, GO SPURS!!! ..... this is going to be a tough one to win tonight, I hope they can somehow contain either Chris Paul or James Harden .....

[Dr Grey]

As for the LeBron to Warriors bit, to make it happen, they have to sign and trade to get him. Meaning also give up Klay, Iggy, and Livingston. Cavs might actually make out ahead on that deal since they still have IT and Love. Not a good move for James. Most analysts this week says if he wants to win, he comes here. I did get a good laugh at Stephen A's response to LeBron and a warriors deal, it ruins any legacy he might have at this point if he joins Durant and Curry.

[Dr Grey]

Got beat by Houston but our guys held in there. It's obvious we could be better offensively. But I'm loving the progress. Held Houston to 102 of their over 110 average. I miss Lee and Dedmon for rebounding.

Murray only 20 yrs old. Kawhi only 26. Forbes 20s. Aldridge X factor as he's low 30s now. Two or three seasons when GS, Houston and James age enough, we will beat them.

Gay and Leonard would of made a difference tonight also. Watch James or George come here next year. We also need to trade Patty Mills and replace Gasol. Not worth the money we signed them on. Kinda wish we had Dedmon and Simmons still. Maybe a trade at the deadline for a big guy.

Even if they had Gordon and Ariza. That guy Green on Houston is better than Gordon for sure. Scary stat tonight, Houston is 20 and 1 with CP, Harden, and Capela on the floor. If we don't get that far, a Houston and GS Western Finals would be better than the Finals. I'm thinking Toronto comes out of the East.

Around the league, anyone watch the OKC and Denver showdown!? Omg. Harris murdered it at the buzzer after Paul George tied it with 1.4 left. I don't want to play Denver first round. But they held OKC to fifth and behind our reach. Teams catching up to SA.

Oh, and TNT gave Pop props and Coach of the Year recommendation for this season during the game.

[Dr Grey]

Spurs try to rebound after a loss, and are playing Utah tonight. Hood seems to always give us problems. Hope we can get on a winning path again.

[FootLong]

Lowly (but hot) utah kicked Spurs ass. Must...have...Kawhi...

[SpursFan]

It's going to be a long rest of he season.

I feel confident we will get to 50 wins but without Kahwi in full recovery and in sync with the team it's going to be tough in the playoffs.

SF

[Dr Grey]

I've already accepted the Warriors or Rockets will be the champion this year. Just good to see our guys go through the struggle as we really find out what we have. Hope we can find a rhythm sooner or later.

[Dr Grey]

No games until Wednesday. Hopefully with a Spurs rest, we can get it going again.

[Dr Grey]

Spurs blew up Phoenix the other night. Up by 53 at one point. Could use that kinda of shooting against GS tomorrow night. See what kind of team shows up to play the Warriors.

[hittinit]

One of the things I love about this community is threads like this where folks get to post using their other head.

Dr - regarding most teams building to complete, I completely disagree. There just aren’t enough good players available to make EVERY team potential champs.

When the Spurs had their big 3, they and the lakers dominated the league. They were the teams to beat. Buss was an owner who built a team to WIN. Buss was a WINNER. At ANY cost. He had the advantage of just passing on salary costs to those rich season ticket movie stars. Spurs didn’t have that luxury BUT they had the big 3 and the Lakers pushed the Spurs to their best. And that worked. From 1999 until 2010, either the spurs or lakers represented the west in the finals for 11 of those 12 years. Of those 11 times, either team won the title NINE TIMES. Once the lakers imploded, the spurs no longer had any team to “push” them. Hence the 1 title I refer to in 2014.

The league took notice. So how do you beat a Big 3? With a better big 3. The heat watered down TWO TEAMS when they took their best players in Bosh and James. And THAT worked with 4 straight finals trips with back-to-back titles in between. Ok. So how do you beat a better Big 3? A Big 4 - which Golden state has now; not that they needed Durant. Now, you obviously need a BIG 5. Could that be the rockets you alluded to? Time will tell.

Regarding the “system”, say what you will but it doesn’t work anymore. The spurs bench players are probably better than most teams started BECAUSE of that watering down of the league. And that’s where Pop fails – he tries to convince himself that “saving minutes” is best in the long run. Well not if you’re winning 1 title a decade. What’s the logic? I would rather have LA for 4 solid ball-busting years with 2 or 3 titles than have him for 10 years with none. And doc don’t get me wrong – I am a HUGE spurs fan. I’m just a frustrated one now and the only one I can blame IS pop. Shouldn’t the “system” be MORE efficient now that it’s been in place for 20+ years? I actually laugh when sports “experts” use the Spurs and Patriots in the same sentence. It’s not even close.

00 Gauge – appreciate the contract research. VERY good info to know. Keep in mind though the “ballers” are getting locked-up NOW by teams wanting to compete with the Big 4. And that adds further to my rant. Where’s the Spurs system/logic here…? Cleveland beats Golden State with a big front line. So Pop and Buford bring in Gasol and David Lee “thinking” that will work the following year. Well, it didn’t. We need SHOOTERS. And damn good ones at that to go against the warriors. Have buford/pop – with no more Robinson or Duncan – just turned into “copy cats?” I thought they were THE model franchise.

Xesaddict – I appreciate the info but I am not arguing the “past”. It is what it is. However, Dave and Tim “fell into their (pop/bufords) lap.” Can you imagine ANYONE not drafting them if they had had the chance? And okay…they find a gem here and there. Ginobili was drafted after the 99 title yet it took them YEARS to bring him in. Parker was baptized by fire because Antonio daniels wasn’t a true point guard; they threw him out there and hoped for the best. And that worked. Probably the best PG in franchise history. Ever.

And just for added fun, here’s some players drafted since that 1st coveted title in 99: Leon Smith, Corey Hightower, Chris Carrawell, Robertas Javtokas, Randy Holcolm, John Salmons, Leandro Barbosa, Romain Sato, Ian Mahimni, Damir Markota, Marcus Williams, Goran Dragic, Ryan Richards, Adam Hanga, Marcos Denmon, Deshaun Thomas, Livio Jean-Charles (gotta love the name though), Cory Jefferson, Jordan McRae, Cady Lalanne, Nikola Milutinov.

WHAT? Hope you didn’t buy any of those jerseys.

The notables: Gino, Parker, Scola (who they drafted the year after parker but never brought in), Beno, Tiago, George Hill, De Colo, DeJuan Blair, James Andersen, Cory Joseph (our Curry stopper that they let walk), Kyle Andersen, Dejounte, and last summers picks TBD(White/Blossomgame). In 2011 Kawhi was selected by indiana and traded.

I lost even more respect for pop when he called out the bench in the playoffs a couple of years ago. This franchise doesn’t do that . It’s the team he helped put together. I DO like the fact they stuck to their guns without making any trades this week. I also believe we CAN compete with Houston and GS. Just gotta execute. And get healthy.That game 4 conference finals game last year…I hadn’t screamed and yelled like that at a game in a very long, long time. And after 3 straight NBA finals, is GS gonna get tired later this year?

Whew. I need a drink...

[Dr Grey]

Originally Posted by hittinit

One of the things I love about this community is threads like this where folks get to post using their other head.

Dr - regarding most teams building to complete, I completely disagree. There just aren’t enough good players available to make EVERY team potential champs.

When the Spurs had their big 3, they and the lakers dominated the league. They were the teams to beat. Buss was an owner who built a team to WIN. Buss was a WINNER. At ANY cost. He had the advantage of just passing on salary costs to those rich season ticket movie stars. Spurs didn’t have that luxury BUT they had the big 3 and the Lakers pushed the Spurs to their best. And that worked. From 1999 until 2010, either the spurs or lakers represented the west in the finals for 11 of those 12 years. Of those 11 times, either team won the title NINE TIMES. Once the lakers imploded, the spurs no longer had any team to “push” them. Hence the 1 title I refer to in 2014.

The league took notice. So how do you beat a Big 3? With a better big 3. The heat watered down TWO TEAMS when they took their best players in Bosh and James. And THAT worked with 4 straight finals trips with back-to-back titles in between. Ok. So how do you beat a better Big 3? A Big 4 - which Golden state has now; not that they needed Durant. Now, you obviously need a BIG 5. Could that be the rockets you alluded to? Time will tell.

Regarding the “system”, say what you will but it doesn’t work anymore. The spurs bench players are probably better than most teams started BECAUSE of that watering down of the league. And that’s where Pop fails – he tries to convince himself that “saving minutes” is best in the long run. Well not if you’re winning 1 title a decade. What’s the logic? I would rather have LA for 4 solid ball-busting years with 2 or 3 titles than have him for 10 years with none. And doc don’t get me wrong – I am a HUGE spurs fan. I’m just a frustrated one now and the only one I can blame IS pop. Shouldn’t the “system” be MORE efficient now that it’s been in place for 20+ years? I actually laugh when sports “experts” use the Spurs and Patriots in the same sentence. It’s not even close.

00 Gauge – appreciate the contract research. VERY good info to know. Keep in mind though the “ballers” are getting locked-up NOW by teams wanting to compete with the Big 4. And that adds further to my rant. Where’s the Spurs system/logic here…? Cleveland beats Golden State with a big front line. So Pop and Buford bring in Gasol and David Lee “thinking” that will work the following year. Well, it didn’t. We need SHOOTERS. And damn good ones at that to go against the warriors. Have buford/pop – with no more Robinson or Duncan – just turned into “copy cats?” I thought they were THE model franchise.

Xesaddict – I appreciate the info but I am not arguing the “past”. It is what it is. However, Dave and Tim “fell into their (pop/bufords) lap.” Can you imagine ANYONE not drafting them if they had had the chance? And okay…they find a gem here and there. Ginobili was drafted after the 99 title yet it took them YEARS to bring him in. Parker was baptized by fire because Antonio daniels wasn’t a true point guard; they threw him out there and hoped for the best. And that worked. Probably the best PG in franchise history. Ever.

And just for added fun, here’s some players drafted since that 1st coveted title in 99: Leon Smith, Corey Hightower, Chris Carrawell, Robertas Javtokas, Randy Holcolm, John Salmons, Leandro Barbosa, Romain Sato, Ian Mahimni, Damir Markota, Marcus Williams, Goran Dragic, Ryan Richards, Adam Hanga, Marcos Denmon, Deshaun Thomas, Livio Jean-Charles (gotta love the name though), Cory Jefferson, Jordan McRae, Cady Lalanne, Nikola Milutinov.

WHAT? Hope you didn’t buy any of those jerseys.

The notables: Gino, Parker, Scola (who they drafted the year after parker but never brought in), Beno, Tiago, George Hill, De Colo, DeJuan Blair, James Andersen, Cory Joseph (our Curry stopper that they let walk), Kyle Andersen, Dejounte, and last summers picks TBD(White/Blossomgame). In 2011 Kawhi was selected by indiana and traded.

I lost even more respect for pop when he called out the bench in the playoffs a couple of years ago. This franchise doesn’t do that . It’s the team he helped put together. I DO like the fact they stuck to their guns without making any trades this week. I also believe we CAN compete with Houston and GS. Just gotta execute. And get healthy.That game 4 conference finals game last year…I hadn’t screamed and yelled like that at a game in a very long, long time. And after 3 straight NBA finals, is GS gonna get tired later this year?

Whew. I need a drink...

I should of been a little more clear. Most Spurs teams are built to compete. They plug guys in a system that hasn't changed based on 3 and D type role players with a few who can get it done. Sure, we've lost 1st round to Memphis, among other disappointments. But we are always competitive. This year being 3rd place a testament to that. We've beat Minnesota, OKC, Boston, and Cleveland (pre trade deadline). Just need to get our better scorers back.

I agree with everything you said though. Miami was built as a result to try and beat us. Now, teams are building to flat put score the basketball and fast. Golden State and Houston best at it and designed to beat a Miami style team. Spurs have had a rough time adjusting as while defense is supposed to be king, better offense in the NBA proves better anymore if you're good enough. So yeah, system needs a tweak. In today's league, you need really efficient scoring every time down the floor, and we just don't have it. Yet..

Luckily, he's not saving Aldridge any minutes. And I've never liked the minutes thing either. Throws off consistency. Worked for Duncan, but really doesn't work for a lot of guys. Why I like Kerrs philosophy playing his guys.

[00 gauge]

Hittnit makes some valid points ..... you'd think Pop would like to get at least one more championship before he quits coaching, but sometimes I wonder if they're content to just win 55-60 games, get into the playoffs, and once eliminated consider it a successful season ..... and they're complacent with (if the gods smile on them and they suddenly start shooting lights out and they remain relatively healthy) winning a championship every 7 years or so ..... yes they're competetive, but with the team as it's constructed now, even with a healthy Kawhi giving you 35 minutes a night and being a beast on both ends of the floor, is not enough to challenge Cleveland or Golden State, and probably not even Boston or Houston either ..... it just doesn't seem like the "want to" to compete for a championship year after year is all that important to them ..... and that's sad for us as fans ..... I really would like them to show me they want it, and by "them I mean the Holts, Buford, and Popovich ..... tear this team up this offseason, yes that means making some unpopular trades and moving players that are fan favorites, spend the money, find much better shooters, maybe adapt to a more athletic offense ..... as you both have stated, teams are being built that can shoot the lights out and put 115 points a night on the scoreboard, but until you're willing to do that as a franchise, you'll sit at home every year watching one of the four teams I mentioned earlier take home the trophy every year .....

[Dr Grey]

Like the trades Cleveland just made? Talk about gutting a team and getting some great role players.

I'm like you gauge. We build a team that can get you 50 plus wins. And like my Moneyball statement earlier, maybe one of the teams will get it done. We've always relied heavily on the draft or overseas players. Now, you really have to have a team that can move the ball, and score almost every possession.

On top of GS, Hou, and Boston, I see the Cavs a threat now also, more so after deadline. Boston even more once Hayward is back. OKC has shown they can beat the elite also, and badly.

We need one more piece like a Paul George with Kawhi and Aldridge. Along with role guys who can make shots more consistently. See what happens after this season.

[Dr Grey]

Two more games til all star break. Looks like Murray and Parker back in action tonight, but will be without Aldridge who is nursing his knee until after the break. Gay will be returning then also.

Utah traded our nemesis Rodney Hood from their team and let go of Rose, so hopefully we can get the job done tonight in Utah.