What does it take financially to be a provider?

[hotlips_houlihan]

Originally Posted by Tiger Woods

So, it's pretty much what every working person in the US faces.

But you are forgetting 1 very important fact that those who are not self-employed do not have the benefit of. Folks who work for a company get approximately half their total taxes paid for by the employer. Then the employee eats the rest. Insurance benefits have a portion paid by the employer. Self-employed persons are responsible 100% of the taxes and insurance expenses-which is about double what others pay.

As far as incalls go-many ladies pay for 2 locations-the one they live in, and the one they work from. So if it's an apt that means double electric, cable, etc.

Sure some folks with regular jobs have the house they live in and the one they vacation in (or even one they rent out to folks) but most gents who hobby are married so they have a 2nd income to help soften the blow of the expenses. Many providers are not married-so we absorb it all. Sure, all folks who work have child care expenses if they have kids. But many providers have a regular job that they pay for child care, then have to pay for it again when they work their "other" job.

[Tiger Woods]

Originally Posted by hotlips_houlihan

But you are forgetting 1 very important fact that those who are not self-employed do not have the benefit of. Folks who work for a company get approximately half their total taxes paid for by the employer. Then the employee eats the rest. Insurance benefits have a portion paid by the employer. Self-employed persons are responsible 100% of the taxes and insurance expenses-which is about double what others pay.
.

Not true. An employee pays 100% of their federal and state taxes. The employee also contributes 6.2% to FICA witholding and the employer matches with 6.2%. In the case of someone self-employed they are responsible to pay 12.4%. In 2010, it was 2% lower.

Not all employees have health benefits through their employers. I forget the actual % who don't but it's a big number who do not. And the ones who do typically do not have their premium paid at 100%. More typical is a 50% split between employer and employee, and more commonly only the employee is paid at 50%. Any dependents added to the plan are paid by the employee. Also, many employer provided plans have been adopting higher deductibles and co-insurance requirements by the insured. Those plans have lowered the employer contributions.

[fawn]

[quote=hotlips_houlihan;1441130]

Originally Posted by fawn

I hate these types of threads and the break downs of our expenses... quote]

Love ya babe, but this thread isn't about how much we make. It's about how much we have to spend to be in this business lol smooches

I figured that out thank you Meg, but Reese's original post the link up top was really about both, and yes I understand this thread here is about expenses..... And to all that thought I was being rude, I am very sorry you felt that way.... And yes this board is for having discussions...... But these types of threads usually brings out the worst in some people, it just leaves room for insensitive and crude remarks that are unnecessary. that's all I was saying.... Luckily a train wreck hasn't happened yet......

[Prolongus]

[QUOTE=fawn;1443186][B]

Originally Posted by hotlips_houlihan

I figured that out thank you Meg, but Reese's original post the link up top was really about both, and yes I understand this thread here is about expenses..... And to all that thought I was being rude, I am very sorry you felt that way.... And yes this board is for having discussions...... But these types of threads usually brings out the worst in some people, it just leaves room for insensitive and crude remarks that are unnecessary. that's all I was saying.... Luckily a train wreck hasn't happened yet......

Fawn...I'll ride that train with ya...

[hotlips_houlihan]

Originally Posted by Tiger Woods

The employee also contributes 6.2% to FICA witholding and the employer matches with 6.2%.

Not all employees have health benefits through their employers. I forget the actual % who don't but it's a big number who do not. And the ones who do typically do not have their premium paid at 100%. More typical is a 50% split between employer and employee, and more commonly only the employee is paid at 50%. Any dependents added to the plan are paid by the employee.

Yea, the FICA part-I couldn't remember what it was called! lol-thanks But nonetheless, 12.4% is ALOT. Trust me-I'm still paying back taxes from 4 years ago lol

I never said employers pay 100% of the insurance premium. I said they pay 50% of it-and you are right, usually for employee only-I should have clarified. I have insurance-to have my daughter on my policy, that shit costs me 700 a month for just medical. But even so, providers are covering it 100% again-with no employer contribution. So regardless of how high your deductible is, or whatever, a self-employed person generally still pays more. That's all I'm saying.

[Tiffani Jameson]

Originally Posted by Copierguy0

Damn that sounds very bitter Tiffani Jameson, last i checked this was a discussion board and this is not the FIRST thread about this subject and won't be the last. If you don't have anything to ADD or nice to say, why even respond? Respect is earned and not just because you make yourself available. Using a very well respected provider/mod's quote as your starting RANT don't give you the right to say negative stuff. Hope your not looking for compensation for the TIME it took to write that lol

CG

Bitter? I think not darling. I get compensated by gents who don't question what I spend my money on, because it's obvious with the experiences we have together. I agree that respect is earned, but knowing a woman's business shouldn't garner any one any more respect. Because it's a discussion board, I reserve the RIGHT, to discuss what is said here. Last I checked no one on this board is my parent and I say what I please. The same can be said about this thread: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.

[Chevalier]

Originally Posted by Tiffani Jameson

It's like discussing your barber's or your waitress's income and how they spend their money with them. Pretty sure they wouldn't want to discuss that with you, and you wouldn't ask them how much they make. You get a little of the top, eat the pie, pay the bill and tip according to the service you get, and leave. I'm trying to figure out how that courtesy is lost in this industry.

Perhaps it's that very few if any clients are obsessed with persuading the barber to lower the rates he charges? And the absence of a barber-client discussion board to facilitate such persuasion?

Just a thought.

P.S. Let me know if discussions here ever persuade you ladies to lower your rates. I always assumed they didn't, but if they do, hey, I'll chime in more often!

[guest043013-2]

Well, perhaps a few are more educated to the financials of a provider.

Fawn, never meant for this to upset you, or any of the ladies. The fact of the matter is, most guys don't really understand the expenses of running a business of providing.

That said, as someone else suggested, certain expenses I don't think count.

Let's say we are looking at the average Joe who makes about $25.00 per hour. (Average income of about $50K)

Joe cannot deduct child care, meals, his automobile to drive to and from work, etc. So those expenses are not business expenses.

The business expenses I am refering to are those that the IRS will let a small business owner deduct from his gross profits to figure his net profits. Things such as advertising, office expenses, special laundry expenses.

For a lady, sure, her incall, laundry for the linens, and since she is perhaps using 2-3-4 outfits a day, so each guy sees her in fresh clothes, yes, those should be deductible. Her sexy clothes would be another unusual expense that I think should arguably be deductable. In this regard, think about the expenses a Hollywood star might be able to deduct. Travel cost to another city, sure.

Now figure the hours. I think most guys tend to just figure the 1 hour BCD. But marketing time, scheduling time, prep time, clean up afterwards, all of those part of the 1 hour BCD appointment.

I am going to go out on a limb here, real simple numbers. Please don't shoot me, just take a gander at my numbers.

Figure an average, fulltime provider charges $200/hour, gets 3 appointments a day, 5 days a week. So her gross income is $3000.00. I bet that is not a bad number for a lot of ladies with moderately good business. So gals have less appointments, but charge more, etc. Still, $3000 gross a week would be on the better side of average, but this is 15 hours of BCD time.

Figure an incall hotel at $75/day. Hopefully they are gettign good deals on priceline, etc. to keep those cost down. To simplify htings, and get better rates, they are paying for 7 days at that rate, or $525.00.

Condoms, toys, lubes, refreshments, grooming supplies for guys, etc. - $125/week.

Advertising - I have no idea on this, but I will keep it fairly low, say $25/week.

Communications - cell phone, internet, computer, along with amortizing the cost of the equipment - $100.

Hair, makeup per week - $50.

Clothing allowance per week - $50. (only for clothes specific to her career needs)

Tips to housekeeping, or special laundy needs: $75.

Net income per week is $2050. I know, I probably missed a few items, but I bet I am not far off on the deductions, more questionable is the gross income.

Now the labor:

Prep for an appointment: 30 minutes average.
Cleanup after an appointment: 30 minutes average.
total per appointment - 1 hour, so add an additional 15 hours.

Marketing time - It takes me an hour a day to review ECCIE (when I ain't creating these long winded threads.) Ladies are generally on 2-3 boards, maybe they are a bit quicker than me, But I have to say a gal really marketing herself spends 2 hours a day at it. Another 14 hours.

So, where are we? I have quickly filled up 44 hours of time, probably are a lot of other areas that should be considered. So, a lady is making just over $46/hour in my really rough scenario I drew up. $46/hour in a career that offers no retirement, no benefits, and has a limited life, since most ladies outlive their marketability in 5-6 years max. A career that has a lot of risk of arrest, danger from screwed up guys, etc.

Compare that to my earlier average Joe making $25/hour, with benefits, with a career that might span 40-50 years, has no chance of arrest hopefully. Granted he may get screwed at work, with no lubrication, and no protection, but the risk of STDs is minimal.

Seems like a reasonable income rate for the lady.

[Tiffani Jameson]

Originally Posted by Chevalier

Perhaps it's that very few if any clients are obsessed with persuading the barber to lower the rates he charges? And the absence of a barber-client discussion board to facilitate such persuasion?

Just a thought.

You are so right. But I look at this board as having separate conversations at a party. Some people are talking about things that you want to talk about, some conversations you just walk right past, and some people need to be told off. If someone asked me this question to my face, I would say exactly what I felt. I'm pretty sure some of the ladies that actually answered this question would look at him strange too.

@ Tigercat: so let's assume you're right about your calculations of what the average provider makes and spends being a provider. What will you do with your new-found wealth of information?

[Sir Lancehernot]

Maybe things have changed in the time since I hobbied a lot more regularly, but the ladies I used to see multiple times and got to know a little bit about had significantly less overhead. They either worked out of their residences or worked outcall, and I paid for the room. Attire for outcalls was whatever she wore to class or the grocery store that day, with commensurate makeup. Some did no advertising, preferring to operate by referrals.

I do not mean to disparage or criticize the ladies whose business models are different. And I recognize that going UTR usually means a lower volume and thus lower earnings; some women, for various reasons, are okay with that. All I'm saying is that it is possible to operate with less overhead than some seem to think is necessary.

[sixxbach]

Hmmmmmmmm

Don't civlians have the same expenses for the most part? Hell, it costs us ALL to make a living. I also have to eat. I'm not going to tell the boss well my food costs have gone up, I need a raise. Buy groceries instead of eating out all time, etc.....

Sixx

[Chloe]

I think all this thread does is . . .

A. Prove both the hobbiest and provider are business people who have expenses.

B. We all have to budget, pay taxes, pay bills, and go the extra mile to make extra money for play time.

C. It takes more time, effort and money for a business owner who has no one working for them yet they have a higher gross income to compensate.

D. It's not usually a good idea to ask someone how much they make and do their personal inventory.

[guest043013-2]

Originally Posted by Tiffani Jameson

...@ Tigercat: so let's assume you're right about your calculations of what the average provider makes and spends being a provider. What will you do with your new-found wealth of information?

I hope no one here takes my calculations as a true representation of any particular lady's financial situation. It wasn't meant to be. It was meant to open some eyes of some guys who spout off that if provider A charges $200/hour, she must be a rich gal making that kind of dough per hour.

Tiff, I already knew this, though I had never actually punched up the numbers. I have never faulted a lady for her rates. Sure, I will take a discount if offered, but since I usually see the over 30 crowd, I assume the lady is wise enough to have sat down and figured out what she has to make, to take home, in order to make this career choise work for her. Oh, and don't forget what Loving Kayla always says, she needs to have a little bit set aside for a rainy day, and another little bit she is putting away for her retirement or transition into her next career.

General rule of thumb for someone working 40 hours per week, is you can take their hourly rate and multiply it by 2000 hours per year for an estimate of salary. I would say few ladies here are bringing in $400,000/year.

All I am trying to do is show that a lady's true hourly rate as far as take home pay is significantly lower than her posted rates. I don't need any lady to post her actual financials, don't care what your actual financials are. I know this is hard work, requires a lot of physical stamina for those who are at the top of their game, is extremely stressful emotionally, and will burn out a lady real easy. The upside for some ladies is that it does allow them some flexibility so they can raise their kids, spend time with family. At least some of the marketing can be done after the children are in bed, while the rest of the world sleeps.

We have probably aired this enough, hopefully I made my point. I will give the mods the option of closing this one down.

[Boltfan]

I am posting for shameless self promotion.

Not going to touch this subject otherwise.

[chipper]

Thanks tigercat, I am exercising that option. Everyone has different circumstances and different expenses. I could not do what these Ladies do for any amount of money and I truly appreciate all of them whether I visit them or not.

I think that if you read all of this closely you can learn a lot but I don't think we need to keep discussing it.

Chipper