babbits killer identified

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

You "assume" wrong! Give it up. You are absolutely incorrect.

Source? I’m not doubting that you are correct, or saying it’s a bad thing, I simply can’t verify your information. You stated “Every LE agency in this country has its officers trained to shoot with ONE HAND and they requalify with ONE HAND.” which doesn’t seem to be the case, according to the official PA qualification document I posted. Are you saying this document is incorrect or fake?

Who cares about once upon a time. Once upon a time the Praetorian Guard used spears and swords. These days a revolver is like carrying a musket. They’re good for women who couldn’t deal with a stovepipe or whatnot, but not much else IMO.

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by bambino

He never said “gun”. You did.

I was trying to figure that out as well. Dude goes off on a tangent about something I never said, after he himself posts this:

Many trained people can fire a gun with either hand. Fire a gun while holding something with the other hand, of course. Trained to fire a gun while laying on your back, and still hit the target as well as standing up, of course.

WTF?

Ed: I’m not trying to argue with or prove LL wrong, just would like to verify what he’s saying. I know diddly squat about police training and he seems to have been a LEO of some sort. Learning from someone who has been there is always a good thing and I’m more than open to it.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

I was trying to figure that out as well. Dude goes off on a tangent about something I never said, after he himself posts this:



WTF?

He goes off the tracks sometimes.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

I was trying to figure that out as well. Dude goes off on a tangent about something I never said, after he himself posts this:

I posted what?

You started some rant about blah, blah, blah. You were WRONG!

Own it.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

These days a revolver is like carrying a musket.

Not mine. I use speed loaders, if I need that many rounds. I normally would carry a revolver out on the water.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Dunno where you did your pistol training (fantasyland?), but the military trains you to use both hands at all times, the only exception being if one hand/arm has been wounded. I’ve never seen a trainer, military or civilian, who trains people to fire one handed.

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Not in my state, I’d assume other states are the same. Here’s the pistol qualification requirements for police officers, the clearly indicate in red that all shooting is done with a two handed grip. https://mpoetc.psp.pa.gov/training/D...n%20Course.pdf

Edit: When did the fbi start issuing revolvers? They used Glock 19s AFAIK, and are transitioning to the same Sig that the army is replacing the Baretta M9 with.

E2: I said sidearm in one post and pistol in another, not gun, which are the proper terms. You wouldn’t say “gun” because it’s too general when you would typically also be carrying a rifle. I believe, but could be wrong, that police refer to it as their service weapon.

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

I was trying to figure that out as well. Dude goes off on a tangent about something I never said, after he himself posts this:



WTF?

Ed: I’m not trying to argue with or prove LL wrong, just would like to verify what he’s saying. I know diddly squat about police training and he seems to have been a LEO of some sort. Learning from someone who has been there is always a good thing and I’m more than open to it.

When you started your rant .... you didn't know WTF you were talking about and posting a qualification statute for multi-purposes as supposed to purely LE is hardly a factual basis.

To make the point I doubt seriously a legislature would MANDATE "one-handed" shooting .... that would be a training focus for LE. Texas doesn't.

Like I said ... if an LE agency doesn't train for "strong hand" and "weak hand" shooting and reloading then that agency is inviting the death of their officers. It's rather simple. The FBI learned. You haven't. 25-years-ago. Apparently, neither has Pennsylvania. At least according to you!

That was my point about the FBI ... you want to go off all ignorant and talk "Shooter's Bible" bullshit.

The short version:
https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/fat...fight-in-miami

In the aftermath of the gun battle, the FBI and other law enforcement agencies closely studied the incident. Although wounded, both Platt and Matix were able to continue firing their weapons at the surrounding agents. Our guns had not stopped them. Furthermore, the killers’ weapons were more powerful and their rounds could penetrate even the armored vests that some of the agents were wearing.

In response to this tragedy, the FBI made significant changes in the firepower carried by agents, the body armor they wore, and the incident response training they received.

I've been familiar with this topic longer than you.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by bambino

He goes off the tracks sometimes.

Yours? or His?

[bambino]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Yours? or His?

Yours.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by bambino

Yours.

Don't think so, but you're always entitled to your opinion.

I will use the word "gun" when someone else has unless they bloviating about their expertise in military and civilian firearms training. Although I do realize that in blogs typing 3 letters is faster than 7 or more. Please continue to defend his bullshit. He needs it. Let me repeat what started his bullshit ... (HIS POST NOT MINE!)

I’ve never seen a trainer, military or civilian, who trains people to fire one handed.

As a critic of all things "firearms training" and a self-proclaimed expert on it he's trashing someone holding some kind of a pistol .... in the "wrong" manner based upon his extensive knowledge of "military and civilian" firearms training?

And then posts a Pennsylvania statue setting up MINIMUM qualification and re-qualification standards to "prove" that two-handed grips are all that are trained!

You want to whine about my "rails"? Perhaps you should inquire about how many "trainers" he has observed training and where? Then we can have another discussion about "rails"!

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Source? I’m not doubting that you are correct, or saying it’s a bad thing, I simply can’t verify your information. You stated “Every LE agency in this country has its officers trained to shoot with ONE HAND and they requalify with ONE HAND.” which doesn’t seem to be the case, according to the official PA qualification document I posted. Are you saying this document is incorrect or fake?

Who cares about once upon a time. Once upon a time the Praetorian Guard used spears and swords. These days a revolver is like carrying a musket. They’re good for women who couldn’t deal with a stovepipe or whatnot, but not much else IMO.

When you correctly quote what I stated I will respond. Is that why you didn't link it?

Every LE agency in this country has its officers trained to shoot with ONE HAND and they requalify with ONE HAND. If they don't ... they have no business in LE. And the same goes with personal security training. They are also trained with "strong hand" and "weak hand" shooting ... NOT BOTH HANDS SHOOTING.

This IS in Pennsylvania ...

https://www.rockwelltactical.com/pistol/pistol-151



Looks like weak-hand tactical training to me. The holster is on his right and the pouch on his left looks like a two magazine pouch. Personally, I carry three high-capacity magazines. It looks like he carries only two.

[Jacuzzme]

Are you drunk? There was no “rant” by anyone other than yourself, my statement was concise and 100% factual.

I posted what?

This:
“Many trained people can fire a gun with either hand. Fire a gun while holding something with the other hand, of course. Trained to fire a gun while laying on your back, and still hit the target as well as standing up, of course.”

Then in the next breath your going on about how “gun” isn’t proper terminology (which I completely agree with btw) and questioning my use of the term when I hadn’t used it, yet you had done do yourself. Your posts come across as highly aggravated for no apparent reason.

As a critic of all things "firearms training" and a self-proclaimed expert on it he's trashing someone holding some kind of a pistol .... in the "wrong" manner based upon his extensive knowledge of "military and civilian" firearms training?

Where the hell did I say any of that? I posted my personal experience from army training. Period. I never claimed to be an expert on “all things firearm training”. Not once.

[LexusLover]

Firearms training in Pennsylvania. And a CORRECTION: He also has 3 magazines. I now see one of the ground, one in the pouch, and there's one in the weapon.

Smart guy. Unlike Jazz ... retreating yet again from his bloviating. Did that come from his "Army" training?

[Jacuzzme]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Firearms training in Pennsylvania. And a CORRECTION: He also has 3 magazines. I now see one of the ground, one in the pouch, and there's one in the weapon.

Smart guy. Unlike Jazz ... retreating yet again from his bloviating. Did that come from his "Army" training?

Knitting training in Pennsylvania. It looks like the room is prepared to use a triple loop stitch, I prefer the quadruple.

What exactly does that have to do with your inability/unwillingness to address obviously incorrect statements? It’s like your arguing with yourself, pretending people said things and trying (unsuccessfully) to prove them wrong.

This isn’t really that difficult. Maybe you got confused and thought I used a term I did not, perfectly understandable. Everybody fucks up. It appears that you are also incorrect in this statement: “Every LE agency in this country has its officers trained to shoot with ONE HAND and they requalify with ONE HAND.” It’s ok, you might be right in many cases but clearly not every LE agency in the country does. Just because there’s an advanced weapons class somewhere doesn’t prove your statement. I saw nothing on the training center’s website that indicates this was required for police officers. Looks like tons of fun though, and reasonably priced. I wish it weren’t so far away.

ed: And look at this craziness



Who TF said anything about waivers? Is there a ghost in this thread? I honestly have no clue what you’re talking about half the time. I stated above that you seemed to have much knowledge on this subject and would be a good guy to learn from, I’m starting to rethink that.

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Jacuzzme

Dunno where you did your pistol training (fantasyland?), but the military trains you to use both hands at all times, the only exception being if one hand/arm has been wounded. I’ve never seen a trainer, military or civilian, who trains people to fire one handed.

Originally Posted by LexusLover

Firearms training in Pennsylvania. .....

..... Unlike Jazz ... retreating yet again from his bloviating. Did that come from his "Army" training?

The "civilian" part mystically evaporated ... please continue Jazz! I see someone in Pennsylvania training with one hand ... i.e. his weak hand even.

Jazz ... please keep it up. You're making yourself look silly.

[bambino]

Originally Posted by LexusLover

The "civilian" part mystically evaporated ... please continue Jazz! I see someone in Pennsylvania training with one hand ... i.e. his weak hand even.

Jazz ... please keep it up. You're making yourself look silly.

He might be ambidextrous!!!!