Lives of Quiet Desperation

[London Rayne]

No, I am not confused, as I was not replying to you. My post was for "lostforkate," and he has already responded. :mf

Originally Posted by Poet Laureate

I think you're confusing me with someone else. I never mentioned any of this in my post. But for men who are in that situation...as far as I'm concerned, a wife who says no constantly has no one to blame but herself when her man strays, whether it's with a civilian girlfriend or a provider. I left my wife of twenty years at the end of last July. I told her I had not taken a vow of celibacy, and I wanted and needed sex, and that if she wouldn't keep her end of the bargain I would have to divorce her and find a woman who would. I've been called selfish, a pig, and many other names by people who only know that much. When they find out that as of July 29 of last year we had been intimate three times since the prior Christmas, they generally sing a different tune.

[Laz]

Originally Posted by cny6969

This post may be picked apart but I think that I have a personal perspective on this subject.

I have basically had two periods of very active hobbying followed by a feeling of guilt and then taking a break from it. The first period of active hobbying was 6 or 7 years ago and then I took a break until last summer when I jumped back into the lifestyle again. My last "date" was a month ago as I wanted a goodbye date with my ATF before taking what hopefully will be a permanent break from the hobby......Yes I am still lurking and posting on eccie as that is a habit that is hard to break.

The home life with my wife had become very slow over the years both in terms of sex and intimacy and affection in general. There were multiple years when we didn't have sex more than four times a year.

Finally I ended up turning to providers to replace what I was missing at home. With the more recent period of hobbying I was looking as much for the feeling of intimacy as the actual sex. I was looking to replace what was missing at home.

But eventually I started to feel guilty about what I was doing and wanted to concentrate on trying to improve things at home instead. The reality was I never fell out of love with my wife but we had grown apart. The foundation was still solid but we both needed to do more to build something on it again.

Without going into too many details over the past couple of months we have both put in a genuine effort to change our attitudes and behaviors and things have changed tremendously.

Guys when you think about it, it is easy to get into a rut after being married for a number of years where we stop being supportive and helpful to our wives. But yet we still expect our wives to feel romantic anytime we are in the mood. At the same time too many wives stop understanding our needs sexually and for intimacy. It is a two way street and both sides need to put a real effort in to satisfy all of the needs of the other.

I know that it has only been a couple of months since we really started putting a real effort into improving out marriage but I can happily say the the sex lately has never been better and the friendship is back again as well.

Hope it works out for you. A happy marriage is much better than the hobby.

[proudoftexas]

Poet Laureate,

London was addressing the previous poster, lostforkate, who also made a very good post, right before yours.

That makes me happy to hear, cny6969.

Good luck to you. I hope it works out for you. You and your wife have shared a life together. No provider can duplicate that. At the same time, it sounds like you got something out of the hobbying life as well, so I'm glad it was available to you.

[Guest121613]

you make a good point about the "getting paid" issue. but do understand, I do no mean the love language is a 24-7 requirement of sex talk, or frequent compliments.

but here is what happens when a marriage is in a rut, when the communication sucks, and i am using a mundane example below


wife "the GARBAGE can is full"
husband "ok"

10 minutes later

wife "the GARBAGE can is STILL full"
husband "would you like me to take out the garbage?
wife "YES!"
husband "WHY DON'T YOU JUST ASK?"
wife "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO ASK"
husband - (takes out garbage with attitude)


there is love language (really does not need to be 24-7, but a little bit here and there), and then there is courtesy language, which many providers also excel at (4-7 hours per week in your case). I guess the point I am trying to make is more on the courtesy side, or to simply be respectful to other person in the language, as well as listening.

I did many things during the years i was trying to make the marriage better, the last of which, I would read the hints, and truly try to meet all her needs, but really found it to develop into a dom/slave whereas I am the slave 100% of the time. so now the wall is up, and days when she is sweeter instead of demanding, I am more engaging in an effort to reinforce and improve

i know it is a 2-way street, and that is precisely where i want it to be.

Originally Posted by misspriss

Excuse me kind Sir BUT I'm calling bullshit on this.*

Sorry, I was a wife and the language of love FULL-TIME isn't easy.*

Now, 4-7 hours a week...it's easy. In fact, I'm great at it. Many of my clients are married and they adore me. Why? Because it's my job.

Ever try detailing your own car? Hard work. You may find yourself half-assing it.*BUT if it was your job and you were getting paid? Wow!!*

Everyone has an obligation to do their job to the best of their ability. Make no mistakes, it's a providers job to speak the language of love.*

[JessicaKnightly]

So many points here I disagree with, not enough time to address them all. But, about the money. I get paid because it makes the date possible and it pays my bills. That doesn't mean I don't genuinely care. I don't date in my home state, therefore I have to buy a round trip airline ticket for EVERY date. Actually, when all's said and done, I make less than $100/hr. If I didn't charge, I couldn't afford the air transportation or other expenses that come with making these dates possible. I actually love sex and talking and if I won the lottery I would still see the 10 - 20 clients I normally see in a years time until I picked one special man and settled down. As far as the Pretty Woman comment, yes it can happy, I know a few ladies that married clients. I don't lead anyone on, my feeling are real, I know my boundaries and don't become clingy or stalk my clients, but here's the best way to explain it:

If you ever see me on an airplane and I have a big excited smile on my face, I'm on my way to meet my client. If you see me on an airplane and I'm crying my eyes out, I am heading home. I often cry on the way home because I NEVER want the date to end. Most of my dates are multi-day and they are the best days of my life.

So please don't tell me how I feel or that REAL emotions are not involved. I LOVE my job and I LOVE the men I see. It is what it is.

[JessicaKnightly]

Originally Posted by Poet Laureate

Lots of interesting issues here, and I could give personal perspective on more than one, but I'll stick to the one I think I can best explain, the obsessive, clingy client:

I've been that guy. Not so much any more, but recently enough. The problem is this: some of you ladies are just too good at what you do, and when you couple that with a client whose SO has been saying no for too long, and whose need goes beyond the physical to the emotional, it's a recipe for disaster. All of a sudden a man with a chasm the size of the grand canyon has access to a woman who is saying yes to him whenever he has the funds to see her, and who seems to genuinely care about him. He finds it easy to rationalize in his mind that he's special, because after all, who among us doesn't want to feel special? Deep down he knows he's just another client, but he ignores that as long as he can. This is because he has that desperate need to be cared for, a need that his SO is not meeting. In these situations the sex truly is secondary. I've had mind-blowing Omigod sex with providers I only saw once. I've had run-of-the-mill sex with a provider I saw half a dozen times. The difference was that the lady I saw many times always acted like she wanted to be there. Not the IOP, but the illusion of caring. That's why I don't really give a damn whether it's a CBJ or BBBJ, whether it's mish or CG, whether I last five minutes or thirty. What I care about is the emotional intimacy, which is why kissing is so important to some of us. It's too easy to detach yourself from the act of sex, but it's much harder to detach from a prolonged, deep kiss.

Then there's Pretty Woman Syndrome, the deeply hidden, rarely talked about pipe dream that some hobbyists have. It revolves around finding a provider who decides she wants to give up the life, find one man to be with, and chooses you. Of course it's a fantasy. Of course it's not going to happen, and even if it did, it wouldn't be with me. But it's still out there as a possibility, because every once in a while it does happen.

So I see a lady, and I know there will be sex. I know there will be oral sex, which rarely happened in my twenty year marriage. I know I won't be nagged, I know she won't act as though she's doing me a favor, or only being with me because she feels guilty about all the times she's said no recently. I know she's going to pay attention to me, my feelings, my desires, my needs. She's going to pay attention to me! She's going to say yes to pretty much whatever I ask her to do (because I've read her reviews and know what not to ask). And some ladies wonder why some men get clingy, or obsess? My question is not why some do; it's why more men don't.

But we eventually figure it out. Sometimes with help, sometimes on our own, but either way it gets figured out. The desperation to find someone who cares gives way to a realization that we're looking for something in the hobby that it just isn't designed to give. We quit deluding ourselves, and learn to just enjoy the providers for what they are.

Like I said, I used to be that guy, and if you think me posting this isn't going to cause a shitload of problems for me, think again. But I think it's important enough that I'll take the heat, because I know there are other hobbyists out there in the same boat I was in, only they don't realize it, and they haven't yet gotten to the point where a provider or another hobbyist has enlightened them. I only hope for their sake that when it's done, it's done privately, gently, and with compassion.

Your post made me very sad. I've never met you, but you are special and you were correct in believing so. I'm sorry you got hurt. I don't know the situation or the provider so I can't really comment except you deserve to be treated so much better.

[London Rayne]

I like the way you laid this out, and now I can see where you're coming from. If you can actually get that immersed in EVERY guy you see and have real feelings for, bravo. To me, that would be impossible as I don't care how much screening I do, there are guys that get through whom I would prefer not see again. The point being made is you can't "BUY" emotions and feelings, and saying otherwise is naive and ignorant. The money gets the meeting, but whatever comes after that, has nothing to do with the money. It is either there, or it is not.

Originally Posted by JessicaKnightly

So many points here I disagree with, not enough time to address them all. But, about the money. I get paid because it makes the date possible and it pays my bills. That doesn't mean I don't genuinely care. I don't date in my home state, therefore I have to buy a round trip airline ticket for EVERY date. Actually, when all's said and done, I make less than $100/hr. If I didn't charge, I couldn't afford the air transportation or other expenses that come with making these dates possible. I actually love sex and talking and if I won the lottery I would still see the 10 - 20 clients I normally see in a years time until I picked one special man and settled down. As far as the Pretty Woman comment, yes it can happy, I know a few ladies that married clients. I don't lead anyone on, my feeling are real, I know my boundaries and don't become clingy or stalk my clients, but here's the best way to explain it:

If you ever see me on an airplane and I have a big excited smile on my face, I'm on my way to meet my client. If you see me on an airplane and I'm crying my eyes out, I am heading home. I often cry on the way home because I NEVER want the date to end. Most of my dates are multi-day and they are the best days of my life.

So please don't tell me how I feel or that REAL emotions are not involved. I LOVE my job and I LOVE the men I see. It is what it is.

[Poet Laureate]

Originally Posted by JessicaKnightly

Your post made me very sad. I've never met you, but you are special and you were correct in believing so. I'm sorry you got hurt. I don't know the situation or the provider so I can't really comment except you deserve to be treated so much better.

Thank you for the kindness. Now I'm able to put things into proper perspective, thanks to one provider who was very sweet and took the time to explain things I hadn't understood up to then. She didn't get angry, she didn't go off, she didn't refuse to see me again, and she didn't post negative things, which I can't say for a couple others.

I've never met you, but honey I'm from Chicago, lived there nearly my whole life, and when next I get back there, meeting you will be a top priority.

[Poet Laureate]

And now, in keeping with the theme, here's something I'm sure many ladies and some hobbyists can relate to. Some was taken from my own experience, some is poetic license, but this is an entirely original work:

He’ll give you the shirt right off of his back
He’ll seem like a gift from above
He’ll give you his all, but providers beware
Of the hobbyist looking for love

He falls in love deep and he falls in love fast
He just doesn’t play by the rules
If you’re his provider, then sister take care
If he chooses you as his jewel

It’s all good at first; he’ll see you a lot
Convinced there’s a real connection
He’ll speak of your beauty, your scent and your grace
Believing you share his affection

But ladies, take note, pay heed to my words
This fella is not what he seems
For soon he’ll be jealous you see other men
And that spells the end of his dreams

Instead of affectionate, kindly and sweet
Instead of deep caring for you
There’s anger and hurt, sometimes even rage
You know what you now have to do

As much as you hate to hurt him at all
To let him down gently you try
But the last thing you see ere closing your door
Is the hurt as he’s saying goodbye

He gave you the shirt right off of his back
He seemed like a gift from above
But now he’s in pain as he goes on his way
The hobbyist looking for love

[proudoftexas]

Jeez. That was a painful read.

Well, great admonition for everyone. Thanks for sharing, Poet Laureate. That took a lot. I hope you continue to get what you're looking for out of hobbying.

I like the story of the one provider who helped you. I do think a site like Eccie can help with that stuff. There are some great threads on here, and the archived ASPD board, which can help hobbyists understand what they're signing on for.

But that's a lot of reading, which isn't for everyone.

Anyway, terrific contributions to the thread. It wouldn't have been nearly as good a discussion without your participation.

[Guest121613]

Poet L,

That is a really great poem, and I am another who enjoys writing. Well done.

To add my thoughs, I am selfish, and I pay for the experience. However, I do not get jealous when my atfs r with other men. I want my atfs to be prosperous, so they continue in the business, and also enjoy themselves. I am pleased if an atf has SO. I will try to steer good clients their way. If I identify a client as harmful, either practicing bbfs, or shows signs of violence, I will let my atfs know not to see should not see this person, or be at least careful.

I will not fall for my atfs. Though I may be fully vested in the moment, 1yr, 2yr, 5yr or more down the road, I expect to be out of contact.

I invariable do fantasize a ltr with a provider, but I know that chances would be 1 in a 10000. In my mind, I could share with the trade.

Somehow, I sense there those members who poets at heart, and I have been described as such. As a result, the hunger for intimacy cannot be quenched. I know their are many days I feel that way.

One atf, I really feel for, expressed she can never have a normal life now since she has been in the trade, which breaks my heart. As much as she has tried to clean her face pics from sites like this, she has become recognizable, and she was approached after a flight about her services.

[yourworstnightmare]

Originally Posted by JessicaKnightly

So many points here I disagree with, not enough time to address them all. But, about the money. I get paid because it makes the date possible and it pays my bills. That doesn't mean I don't genuinely care. I don't date in my home state, therefore I have to buy a round trip airline ticket for EVERY date. Actually, when all's said and done, I make less than $100/hr. If I didn't charge, I couldn't afford the air transportation or other expenses that come with making these dates possible. I actually love sex and talking and if I won the lottery I would still see the 10 - 20 clients I normally see in a years time until I picked one special man and settled down. As far as the Pretty Woman comment, yes it can happy, I know a few ladies that married clients. I don't lead anyone on, my feeling are real, I know my boundaries and don't become clingy or stalk my clients, but here's the best way to explain it:

If you ever see me on an airplane and I have a big excited smile on my face, I'm on my way to meet my client. If you see me on an airplane and I'm crying my eyes out, I am heading home. I often cry on the way home because I NEVER want the date to end. Most of my dates are multi-day and they are the best days of my life.

So please don't tell me how I feel or that REAL emotions are not involved. I LOVE my job and I LOVE the men I see. It is what it is.

This is either a cry for help (as in you're in desperate need of a therapist) OR you are full of shit. If this is true, why would you post this in public? You sound like a psycho.

[yourworstnightmare]

Originally Posted by JessicaKnightly

So many points here I disagree with, not enough time to address them all. But, about the money. I get paid because it makes the date possible and it pays my bills. That doesn't mean I don't genuinely care. I don't date in my home state, therefore I have to buy a round trip airline ticket for EVERY date. Actually, when all's said and done, I make less than $100/hr. If I didn't charge, I couldn't afford the air transportation or other expenses that come with making these dates possible. I actually love sex and talking and if I won the lottery I would still see the 10 - 20 clients I normally see in a years time until I picked one special man and settled down. As far as the Pretty Woman comment, yes it can happy, I know a few ladies that married clients. I don't lead anyone on, my feeling are real, I know my boundaries and don't become clingy or stalk my clients, but here's the best way to explain it:

If you ever see me on an airplane and I have a big excited smile on my face, I'm on my way to meet my client. If you see me on an airplane and I'm crying my eyes out, I am heading home. I often cry on the way home because I NEVER want the date to end. Most of my dates are multi-day and they are the best days of my life.

So please don't tell me how I feel or that REAL emotions are not involved. I LOVE my job and I LOVE the men I see. It is what it is.

This post is either a cry for help ( as in you're in desperate need of a therapist) or you're full of shit. I will tell you now that you sound like a straight up nutjob. You want people to believe that you genuinely fall in love with each and every client? Yeah suuuure. Please go see a shrink ASAP. If you think this post will somehow attract good business, think again. You know better than to post nonsense like this - even if you really are going through this.

[JessicaKnightly]

Parting is such sweet sorrow. Yourworstnightmare, your name is fitting.

[proudoftexas]

Bwahahahaha!

"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

We all have issues. Shit, we're posting on a message board dedicated to helping providers and clients hook up. That is not what the average joe is doing. We each have our reasons. It's no business of mine why you're choosing to do so.

I like JessicaKnightly's contributions. I don't care whether it's truth, marketing, denial, or something in between. I like her perspective. She's already one of my favorite posters on here. She has a great deal of intelligence, and I like to read what she has to say.

Honestly, I like your's, too, yourworstnightmare. It's amusingly condescending, which seems to be your modus operandi for all 3 of your other posts. People are either going to take that shit personally, or blow it off, and they should figure it out quickly if they're going to participate on a message board, I don't care what the subject pertains to.

Of course, you don't seem to have much of substance to add, but that's okay, too. It's a good post, and a good perspective, even if I don't happen to agree, and I do hope this particular part of Eccie isn't overrun with people who think the same way you do. Thanks for the contribution!