What should the U.S.’s role be?

[Camille]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

Lybia.

You been drinking TTH?

C xx

[atlcomedy]

I think TTH is the man for the job

[discreetgent]

There already is discussion about NATO imposing a no-fly zone under a UN Security Council resolution. This may be the ideal scenario for some sort of intervention. What I think is still complicated is whether Quadafi is still a head of state. If he is it changes - afaik - the legalities (I'm talking under US law) of an assassination attempt. It does make one wonder if Italy's suspension of a non-aggression treaty with Libyan on grounds that Libya is no longer a state has implications beyond that one action.

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Apparently the impact from Libya is greater than the 2% share of oil they have. The oil they pump is a lighter crude that refiniries in Europe and Asia are particularly designed for. US refiniries can handle heavier crude.

Originally Posted by pjorourke

Except ours are pretty full because we haven't built a new one in about 30 years. Lots of our crude has to be refined overseas.

I also agree with both statements, however, the current EPA is creating laws, bypassing congress, to further regulate US refinaries, making "business as usual" even tougher. ...and here...

We still import light crude, but not in the large quantities. However, any decrease in flow does affect price at the pump which mostly affects the poor and middle class. We need to be drilling our own resources to offset any fluctuation in world markets. There is enough oil available that could give plenty of time to develope alternative sources.

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

There is enough oil available that could give plenty of time to develope alternative sources.

Lets assume that is true. We still have no strategy on developing those alternatives. As long as gas is cheap enough where is the incentive for private business to go after alternative sources that will cost billions and billions to develop with no guarantee of success. The way I see it the obvious choices are either making gas more expensive (perhaps with subsidies for the poor) with taxes OR providing government incentives and breaks for alternative energy development.

What I am curious about is how someone with a view that raising taxes is off the table and that government should stay out of the market place sees this happening. (Hoping RK will step in since he generally has something sensible to say in these matters).

[I B Hankering]

Originally Posted by Camille

? I wasn't responding to you IB..I was replying to Ansley.
I never said the SAS report every mission and I never said the US didn't have equivalent folks. You either misunderstood me or are assuming something more to what I said.

C

It was my very poor attempt at humor that's causing the confusion. Sorry.

You and I both know the British SAS or the U.S. Special Forces have the capability to - as Ansley is hinting - assassinate Kdaffy Duck (I like that PJ, it's been a while since I've seen it used) without being caught (no news report). The only problem is that the U.S. would be the obvious suspect if anything like that happened - even without overt evidence to prove it. A North Korean agent could be caught in the act of pulling the trigger, but the U.S. would still be blamed.

I was really joking about the drones. Jet strikes or drone attacks would be too overt and not at all deniable.

Post revolution nation building? Another mission for the U.S. Navy and Army?

[TexTushHog]

Originally Posted by Camille

You been drinking TTH?

C xx

I didn't know that we were allowed to post any other way??!!! When did they change that policy?? They're just too many fuckin' new rules around here.

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

Lets assume that is true. We still have no strategy on developing those alternatives. As long as gas is cheap enough where is the incentive for private business to go after alternative sources that will cost billions and billions to develop with no guarantee of success. The way I see it the obvious choices are either making gas more expensive (perhaps with subsidies for the poor) with taxes OR providing government incentives and breaks for alternative energy development.

What I am curious about is how someone with a view that raising taxes is off the table and that government should stay out of the market place sees this happening. (Hoping RK will step in since he generally has something sensible to say in these matters).

In other words, Marxism, or redistribution of wealth. Look at the debacle of corn ethanol subsudies now. Gvmt intervention is causing food prices to inflate. Ever heard the phrase "Necessity is the mother of invention?" It's always been the private sector that innovated. The gvmt creates nothing, but a sub-class of cronies. You and your ilk are famous for spouting "big business" but it's the big companies like ADM and Monsanto that are raking in the dough from the "green" agenda for ethanol.

[Camille]

Originally Posted by I B Hankering

It was my very poor attempt at humor that's causing the confusion. Sorry.

You and I both know the British SAS or the U.S. Special Forces have the capability to - as Ansley is hinting - assassinate Kdaffy Duck (I like that PJ, it's been a while since I've seen it used) without being caught (no news report). The only problem is that the U.S. would be the obvious suspect if anything like that happened - even without overt evidence to prove it. A North Korean agent could be caught in the act of pulling the trigger, but the U.S. would still be blamed.

I was really joking about the drones. Jet strikes or drone attacks would be too overt and not at all deniable.

Post revolution nation building? Another mission for the U.S. Navy and Army?

Oh god IB...you gotta get the humor "internet ready" lol.
No biggie anyway.
I understand (and agree) with what you are saying, which is why I asked the question about contractors...because the risk would be the same. I think it goes back to TTH's suggestion that the only intervention could really be a wisely thought out one...because it seems that deniable ops or not, the US would be fingered.

C xxx

[Camille]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

I didn't know that we were allowed to post any other way??!!! When did they change that policy?? They're just too many fuckin' new rules around here.

I know. I'm getting too old to keep up

C xxxxxxx

[discreetgent]

Originally Posted by DFW5Traveler

In other words, Marxism, or redistribution of wealth. Look at the debacle of corn ethanol subsudies now. Gvmt intervention is causing food prices to inflate. Ever heard the phrase "Necessity is the mother of invention?" It's always been the private sector that innovated. The gvmt creates nothing, but a sub-class of cronies. You and your ilk are famous for spouting "big business" but it's the big companies like ADM and Monsanto that are raking in the dough from the "green" agenda for ethanol.

You can spout all the political philosophy you want, but it doesn't actually address my question (something you are getting good at ). Yeah, I know about necessity and invention but when you talk about investments of huge sums of money in a technology that is not going to be competitive - at least for a while - ignoring that there may be a public policy issue that government should play a part in is shutting your eyes to reality. So lets try again, what incentive would you give to spend billions to develop alternative sources that may not be price competitive with oil for decades?

p.s. there was a reason I was hoping it was RK who would respond. I'm genuinely interested in how that approach to government and markets would view things, not looking for spouting of political orthodoxy on either side.

[DFW5Traveler]

Originally Posted by discreetgent

You can spout all the political philosophy you want, but it doesn't actually address my question (something you are getting good at ). Yeah, I know about necessity and invention but when you talk about investments of huge sums of money in a technology that is not going to be competitive - at least for a while - ignoring that there may be a public policy issue that government should play a part in is shutting your eyes to reality. So lets try again, what incentive would you give to spend billions to develop alternative sources that may not be price competitive with oil for decades?

p.s. there was a reason I was hoping it was RK who would respond. I'm genuinely interested in how that approach to government and markets would view things, not looking for spouting of political orthodoxy on either side.

Actually, I'm not shutting my eyes. I see the inflation coming and the keynseans and socialist in the country seem to be celebrating it by turning a blind eye to it. The political philosophy is a given, it's out in the open and blatantly "in your face." As to your post script, political orthodoxy, or dogma, in your case, is driving the issues we currently face. it's not the rights fault that you refuse to see it.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by Camille

Oh god IB...you gotta get the humor "internet ready" lol.
No biggie anyway.
I understand (and agree) with what you are saying, which is why I asked the question about contractors...because the risk would be the same. I think it goes back to TTH's suggestion that the only intervention could really be a wisely thought out one...because it seems that deniable ops or not, the US would be fingered.

C xxx

The perfect solution: China owns so much of the US now, that she should have an interest in things going our way instead of tanking. In which case, China should send in their own special forces team. Problem solved.

Complete deniability for the US. And my guess is Chinese special forces are pretty top notch.

[discreetgent]

DFW you still miss my point. Alternative energy has nothing to do with inflation lol I am looking for a practical solution to the dilemma we have and I am not hearing one from you.

[Guest083011]

Originally Posted by TexTushHog

I didn't know that we were allowed to post any other way??!!! When did they change that policy?? They're just too many fuckin' new rules around here.

Didn't I mention that the new rules on D&T specifically require PWI?

Originally Posted by Camille

I know. I'm getting too old to keep up

C xxxxxxx

Come to me my beautiful MILF!!!