What happened on Oct 7 one year ago was horrific. Israel's response? Genocide and state-sponsored terrorism..

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

if you read my post, i said it was a good kill. hardly genocide. how would it be genocide to kill a war criminal?

you think i gave Hamas a free pass for Oct 7? where did you see that?

remind me again what you titled this thread?


"What happened on Oct 7 one year ago was horrific. Israel's response? Genocide and state-sponsored terrorism.."

your words.


where's the genocide? state sponsored terrorism?


another post of yours

Originally Posted by pxmcc

we're getting sucked into a really dumb war. and for what? to cover Zionist zealots? this is insanity.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-sen...on-2024-10-13/

[pxmcc]

Well, you asked, so here you go..

"the prohibition of collective punishments is stated in the Hague Regulations and the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions. The prohibition is recognized in Additional Protocols I and II as a fundamental guarantee for all civilians and persons hors de combat."

From the 4th Geneva Convention:
“Article 33 - Individual responsibility, collective penalties, pillage, reprisals
No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.
Pillage is prohibited.”


Wanton destruction-destroying non-combatants' property to a degree not warranted by military necessity.


Genocide, Crimes against Humanity, and War Crimes
"According to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, the Geneva Conventions define war crimes to include "willful killing; torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments; willfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health; extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly; willfully depriving a prisoner of war or other protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial; ”

Collective Punishment-Wilfully killing civilians who had no part in the planning of Oct 7.

Wanton Destruction-Taking out more civilian property than military necessity requires.

Pillage-An Occupier taking land away from an Occupied power. Basically, all of the Jewish settlements constitute pillage, a war crime.

Collective punishments are War Crimes under the 4th Geneva Convention. Ordering 2 million people to leave their homes is a collective punishment. Launching airstrikes at ambulances and hospitals is a collective punishment. And continuing airstrikes without trying to avoid civilian casualties is a continuing collective punishment. Here is the text from the 4th Geneva Convention:

"No protected person [i.e., a civilian] may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org › article...
Geneva Convention (IV) on Civilians, 1949 - Article 33 - IHL Treaties"

The equipment the IDF is using, 155mm artillery rounds, among others in the Gaza war, is overkill. They're great for decimating buildings, but that in itself is problematic. It's true that the IDF asks people who live in those buildings to evacuate, informing them a strike is coming. But some civilians are too old or sick to get out, and are getting killed.

A 155mm round (diameter of 6") has a blast radius of between 160-500 feet. Mortars or smaller diameter rounds are more appropriate for taking out Hamas missile launch sites, but Israel isn't using them, I suspect due to "casual indifference."

Tunnels are another issue. Israel is presently using airstrikes which destroy civilian buildings to get at the tunnels below, and vice versa. That method shows a callous disregard for Palestinian civilians and infrastructure. The IDF can do sideways targeting without destroying the building, but that's harder to do. And there are other methods to kill militants in tunnels that don't kill as many civilians in the process.

So what is Israel supposed to do, big picture? Basically, go kill the really bad guys door to door, house to house, and tunnel to tunnel. We did it in Iraq and Afghanistan, so it can be done. But right now Israel is showing contempt for the lives of innocent Palestinians with unrestricted airstrikes that are killing hundreds of civilian Palestinians a day, with a high percentage being children. Over 40,000 Palestinian civilians have died so far, and over 70,000 have been injured.

As a policy matter, Israel's conduct is self-defeating. For every terrorist they kill, they will create 3 more due to the manner in which they are conducting the war. We should pull funds and support unless and until Israel abides by the international laws of war.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not the same as civilians who live in Gaza and the West Bank.

I stipulate that Hamas has committed unspeakable war crimes, but one war crime does not excuse another.

Some say: "Just out of curiosity... would you work alongside a group of folks that have sworn to eradicate you from the Earth?"

This is a false dichotomy. Bibi will take Hamas over the PA/Fatah-who like Ghandi, favor non-violent resistance-any day of the week, because Hamas/Islamic Jihad serve his goals of never having a Palestinian state, inflaming Iran into war with the U.S., and allowing him to justify the apartheid regime that currently exists in Israel/Palestine.

Bibi can say: "You want Israel to have a side-by-side state with these animals? You've got to be kidding me."

Bibi and his far right regime will never consent to a Palestinian state run by the PA, even if the PA agrees to throw down the gauntlet with Hamas and require them to lay down their weapons or face arrest, which is exactly what should happen.

What Bibi is hoping for, I think, is to eventually expel all Palestinians from Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. That's a violation of international law and constitutes a war crime of pillage and ethnic cleansing. That's why he has wantonly destroyed civilian property and civilian infrastructure. He wants to make Palestinians so miserable that they leave "voluntarily", as he puts it. If that's not his plan, then what is?

Israel claims that Hamas is launching attacks from Gaza hospitals, which is contradicted by the hospital staff, the UN, the World Health Organization, Doctors Without Borders, and the International Red Cross. If Israel has proof, it needs to present it at the UN in an open hearing for all to see. Bombing hospitals with airstrikes and large artillery rounds is a flat out war crime, being committed with our tax dollars and U.S.-provided weapons. That needs to end.

The left-me included-is calling for a cease fire, while the right says keep fighting until you wipe out Hamas. Trying to wipe out Hamas is like the Romans trying to wipe out Christianity. For every "martyr" you kill, 3 more spring up. The young boys suffering right now and losing family members and eyes and limbs in Gaza won't soon forget this. When they reach fighting age, a good percentage will make it their life's goal to avenge this travesty, and I can't say I would blame them.

So what should Israel do? First, set some attainable goals like arresting or killing the senior Hamas members who planned the attack. This stuff about wiping Hamas off the map is pie in the sky, "tilting at windmills" stuff. They're just going to strengthen Hamas in the long term on the current trajectory, and create more terrorists. And when attainable military goals are reached, they need to withdraw from Gaza.

Second, they need to switch to smaller guns and go door to door and house to house, looking for the really bad guys. Using F-16 munitions on an area the size of Philly with a population of 2 million, half of which is under 18, is a war crime waiting to happen.

Third, the Israeli populace needs, imo, to fire Bibi. Has he brought Israel peace? No, actually he's an obstacle to peace. I can't see any scenario where Bibi would offer anything to the Palestinians that would end the conflict, unless his liberal war co-governors can straight up convince him that his approach won't work, which I find unlikely.

Fourth, the new settlements and settler violence against the Palestinians in the West Bank need to end.

Fifth, the Israeli government needs to negotiate with the PA on an immediate 2-state resolution in a land for peace deal that includes the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and Gaza, with connecting geographical corridors, in exchange for a deal that Hamas and Islamic Jihad lay down their weapons or face arrest by joint IDF/PA operations, and cede some land to Israel for the older settlements in exchange for an equal part of land used to connect the Palestinian territories.

If Israel can't even offer that much to Palestine, then I side with the left and ask for a permanent cease fire. The current situation serves no one's interests, not even Israel's, and should not be supported by U.S. tax dollars and U.S. weapons. That would make all of us complicit in the commission of war crimes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Hamas did was unspeakably awful and the planners and senior leaders of the October 7 attacks should be held fully accountable with their lives. But what is happening today in Gaza isn't the answer either. Vengeance isn't a political strategy that ends in peace and tranquility.


Amnesty International has issued a report on treatment of administrative detainees-those detained without charges-of Palestinians in the West Bank, of all places. It is an extremely disturbing read, and sounds much more like what we'd all expect from Hamas, not a U.S. ally that we are providing weapons and funds to. It is high time that we attach conditions to our support of Israel, as Senator Bernie Sanders, a Jew, has proposed.


https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...trary-arrests/


Netanyahu's war is going badly. None of his stated objectives is anywhere near to being achieved, while the Palestinian death toll has surpassed 40,000, with 85% of the population displaced, and over 100 Israeli hostages are still held in Gaza.


I hope Israel holds snap elections and Netanyahu's far right government gets voted out. It's high time for Israel to negotiate in good faith with the PA on a permanent two state solution that will end the second class treatment of Palestinians.


The Iran-supported Houthis in Yemen are shooting at commercial ships in the Red Sea, citing the war on Gaza as their reason. We lost 2 Navy Seals from Seal Team 3 based out of San Diego who were doing a night boarding on a dhow (boat) carrying arms from Iran to the Houthis. One Seal slipped from the boarding ladder in heavy seas, and a second jumped in to save him. Both men died, and their bodies have not been recovered. The dhow was fully loaded with heavy arms, which were seized by the other team members.


There are a number of hotspots which could erupt into full blown war between the U.S. and Iran or Iran-allied militias. The way that Israel's Gaza war is being conducted is not in the U.S.'s interest, and it is time for the Biden admin to state that publicly, or, at a minimum, privately to Israel. The Houthis won't back down until the war ends, is my prediction. They've taken U.S. missile hits from our guided missile destroyers without changing their conduct one iota.


Another war in the Mideast is the last thing America needs. China would probably take Taiwan while we were distracted with another pointless Mideast war. It's time to call a spade a spade.


Furthermore, I also hold Biden responsible for those 3 American soldiers in Jordan who died. I contend that they died because Biden has clearly displayed bias in favor of Israel and against Palestinian civilians. Israel has a legitimate and righteous beef with those terrorists responsible for planning October 7, but what does it do? Instead of taking out the bad guys by capturing or killing the terrorists responsible for planning October 7, the IDF turned 1.87 million people into homeless refugees on the brink of starvation, and killed over 40,000 civilians, mostly women and children, using F-16s that we provided, a clear collective punishment and, therefore, a clear war crime, carried out with American weapons and American taxpayer dollars. We paid for Israeli war crimes. And what does Biden do? He looks the other way, and sneaks more weapons to Israel, even without the consent of Congress.

So when Hezbollah or any number of Iranian-supported militias look at the U.S. and Israel, they, correctly, see them as one and the same, and equally deserving of reprisals. I don't support Hezbollah's or the other militias' actions for one single second, but, looking at the situation from their perspective, I can certainly see where they are coming from with regard to the U.S.'s complicity in seriously wrongful acts against Palestinian civilians in Gaza.

I know what Biden privately thinks of Netanyahu; he thinks he's a fascist scumbag who would love nothing better than to commit genocide against all Palestinians, killing them or kicking them out entirely from East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza, and claiming all of those lands for Israel, in violation of international law, and the indictable war crime of pillage. But what does Biden do? He hemms and he haws and issues sweet platitudes about the need to "protect Gaza's civilians", while doing absolutely nothing to rein in Bibi, his far right government, and the IDF.

It's beyond high time for the Biden admin to end this madness, and declare publicly that the genocide must end, as the ICJ has already ruled, the same court that prosecuted and executed high level Nazis at the end of WWII for war crimes and crimes against humanity. That's why the Arab community in America has christened Biden "Genocide Joe", and the far left and Arabs may just decide to stay home on November 7. He has Gaza's civilians' blood on his hands, just as he has those 3 American soldiers' blood on his hands. It is time for Biden to publicly call Bibi out for his war crimes, and end the funding and the supply of weapons to Israel right now, and demand an immediate and permanent cease fire.

There is a proper and an improper way to fight a war; Israel's war on Gaza has been entirely improper, and needs to end now, even though none of the originally stated war aims, which, as I stated on day one, were silly to begin with, have been achieved. America has the blood of innocent Gazan civilians on it's hands, and is complicit in the commission of war crimes. This travesty must end now, and Israel should have to pay to rebuild Gaza from their own funds, not with U.S. taxpayer dollars. It's the very least they should be required to do; in point of fact, they should also compensate, from their own taxpayer dollars, Palestinian families for unnecessary civilian deaths, just as America did in Iraq and Afghanistan when an errant U.S. airstrike based on faulty intel, for example, killed an entire wedding party of innocent civilians.

This war should have been fought as a series of special ops and drone strikes against the terrorists using the vaunted IDF's and Mossad's intelligence apparatus, not a World War II style decimation of an entire civilian population and almost complete and needless destruction of its civilian infrastructure.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

Well, you asked, so here you go..

the prohibition of collective punishments is stated in the Hague Regulations and the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions.[2] The prohibition is recognized in Additional Protocols I and II as a fundamental guarantee for all civilians and persons hors de combat.[3]

From the 4th Geneva Convention:
“Article 33 - Individual responsibility, collective penalties, pillage, reprisals
No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.
Pillage is prohibited.”


Wanton destruction


Genocide, Crimes against Humanity, and War Crimes
According to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, the Geneva Conventions define war crimes to include "willful killing; torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments; willfully causing great suffering, or serious injury to body or health; extensive destruction and appropriation of property, not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly; willfully depriving a prisoner of war or other protected person of the rights of fair and regular trial; ”
Collective Punishment-Wilfully killing civilians who had no part in the planning of Oct 7.
Wanton Destruction-Taking out more civilian property than military necessity requires.
Pillage-An Occupier taking land away from an Occupied power. Basically, all of the Jewish settlements constitute pillage, a war crime.

Collective punishments are War Crimes under the 4th Geneva Convention. Ordering 2 million people to leave their homes is a collective punishment. Launching airstrikes at ambulances and hospitals is a collective punishment. And continuing airstrikes without trying to avoid civilian casualties is a continuing collective punishment. Here is the text from the 4th Geneva Convention:

"No protected person [i.e., a civilian] may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited. Pillage is prohibited. Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org › article...
Geneva Convention (IV) on Civilians, 1949 - Article 33 - IHL Treaties"

The equipment the IDF is using, 155mm artillery rounds, among others in the Gaza war, is overkill. They're great for decimating buildings, but that in itself is problematic. It's true that the IDF asks people who live in those buildings to evacuate, informing them a strike is coming. But some civilians are too old or sick to get out, and are getting killed.

A 155mm round (diameter of 6") has a blast radius of between 160-500 feet. Mortars or smaller diameter rounds are more appropriate for taking out Hamas missile launch sites, but Israel isn't using them, I suspect due to "casual indifference."

Tunnels are another issue. Israel is presently using airstrikes which destroy civilian buildings to get at the tunnels below, and vice versa. That method shows a callous disregard for Palestinian civilians and infrastructure. The IDF can do sideways targeting without destroying the building, but thats harder to do. And there are other methods to kill militants in tunnels that don't kill as many civilians in the process.

So what is Israel supposed to do, big picture? Basically, go kill the really bad guys door to door, house to house, and tunnel to tunnel. We did it in Iraq and Afghanistan, so it can be done. But right now Israel is showing contempt for the lives of innocent Palestinians with unrestricted airstrikes that are killing hundreds of civilian Palestinians a day, with a high percentage being children. Over 30,000 Palestinian civilians have died so far, and over 70,000 have been injured.

As a policy matter, Israel's conduct is self-defeating. For every terrorist they kill, they will create 3 more due to the manner in which they are conducting the war. We should pull funds and support unless and until Israel abides by the international laws of war.

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are not the same as civilians who live in Gaza and the West Bank.

I stipulate that Hamas has committed unspeakable war crimes, but one war crime does not excuse another.

Some say: "Just out of curiosity... would you work alongside a group of folks that have sworn to eradicate you from the Earth?"

This is a false dichotomy. Bibi will take Hamas over the PA/Fatah-who like Ghandi, favor non-violent resistance-any day of the week, because Hamas/Islamic Jihad serve his goals of never having a Palestinian state, inflaming Iran into war with the U.S., and allowing him to justify the apartheid regime that currently exists in Israel/Palestine.

Bibi can say: "You want Israel to have a side-by-side state with these animals? You've got to be kidding me."

Bibi and his far right regime will never consent to a Palestinian state run by the PA, even if the PA agrees to throw down the gauntlet with Hamas and require them to lay down their weapons or face arrest, which is exactly what should happen.

What Bibi is hoping for, I think, is to eventually expel all Palestinians from Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem. That's a violation of international law and constitutes a war crime. If that's not his plan, then what is?

Israel claims that Hamas is launching attacks from Gaza hospitals, which is contradicted by the hospital staff, the UN, the World Health Organization, Doctors Without Borders, and the International Red Cross. If Israel has proof, it needs to present it at the UN in an open hearing for all to see. Bombing hospitals with airstrikes and large artillery rounds is a flat out war crime, being committed with our tax dollars and U.S.-provided weapons. That needs to end.

The left is calling for a cease fire, while the right says keep fighting until you wipe out Hamas. Neither approach makes any sense. If there's a cease fire, senior Hamas leaders who planned Oct. 7 remain in power, and, what, exactly, have you accomplished? And trying to wipe out Hamas is like the Romans trying to wipe out Christianity. For every "martyr" you kill, 3 more spring up. The young boys suffering right now and losing family members and eyes and limbs in Gaza won't soon forget this. When they reach fighting age, a good percentage will make it their life's goal to avenge this travesty, and I can't say I would blame them.

So what should Israel do? First, set some attainable goals like arresting or killing the senior Hamas members who planned the attack. This stuff about wiping Hamas off the map is pie in the sky, "tilting at windmills" stuff. They're just going to strenghten Hamas in the long term on the current trajectory, and create more terrorists. And when attainable military goals are reached, they need to withdraw from Gaza.

Second, they need to switch to smaller guns and go door to door and house to house, looking for the really bad guys. Using F-16 munitions on an area the size of Philly with a population of 2 million, half of which is under 18, is a war crime waiting to happen.

Third, the Israeli populace needs, imo, to fire Bibi. Has he brought Israel peace? No, actually he's an obstacle to peace. I can't see any scenario where Bibi would offer anything to the Palestinians that would end the conflict, unless his liberal war co-governors can straight up convince him that his approach won't work, which I find unlikely.

Fourth, the new settlements and settler violence against the Palestinians in the West Bank needs to end.

Fifth, the Israeli government needs to negotiate with the PA on an immediate 2-state resolution in a land for peace deal that includes the West Bank,
East Jerusalem, and Gaza, with connecting geographical corridors, in exchange for a deal that Hamas and Islamic Jihad lay down their weapons or face arrest by joint IDF/PA operations.

If Israel can't even offer that much to Palestine, then I'm going to join the left and ask for a permanent cease fire. The current situation serves no one's interests, not even Israel's, and should not be supported by U.S. tax dollars and U.S. weapons. That would make all of us complicit in the commission of war crimes.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What Hamas did was unspeakably awful and the planners and senior leaders of the October 7 attacks should be held fully accountable with their lives. But what is happening today in Gaza isn't the answer either. Vengeance isn't a political strategy that ends in peace and tranquility.


Amnesty International has issued a report on treatment of administrative detainees-those detained without charges-of Palestinians in the West Bank, of all places. It is an extremely disturbing read, and sounds much more like what we'd all expect from Hamas, not a U.S. ally that we are providing weapons and funds to. It is high time that we attach conditions to our support of Israel, as Senator Bernie Sanders, a Jew, has proposed.


https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/ne...trary-arrests/


Netanyahu's war is going badly. None of his stated objectives is anywhere near to being achieved, while the Palestinian death toll has surpassed 40,000, with 85% of the population displaced, and over 100 Israeli hostages are still held in Gaza. Now his latest proposal is Hamas' leaders can voluntarily leave Gaza, only to face assassination abroad, such as a Hamas leader who was recently killed in Lebanon. Does he think Hamas' leaders are mentally retarded to accept such a silly offer?


I hope Israel holds snap elections and Netanyahu's far right government gets voted out. It's high time for Israel to negotiate in good faith with the PA on a permanent two state solution that will end the second class treatment of Palestinians.


The Iran-supported Houthis in Yemen are shooting at commercial ships in the Red Sea, citing the war on Gaza as their reason. We just lost 2 Navy Seals from Seal Team 3 based out of San Diego who were doing a night boarding on a dhow (boat) carrying arms from Iran to the Houthis. One Seal slipped from the boarding ladder in heavy seas, and a second jumped in to save him. Both men died, and their bodies have not been recovered. The dhow was fully loaded with heavy arms, which were seized by the other team members.


There are a number of hotspots which could erupt into full blown war between the U.S. and Iran or Iran-allied militias. The way that Israel's Gaza war is being conducted is not in the U.S.'s interest, and it is time for the Biden admin to state that publicly, or, at a minimum, privately to Israel. The Houthis won't back down until the war ends, is my prediction. They've taken U.S. missile hits from our guided missile destroyers without changing their conduct one iota.


Another war in the mideast is the last thing America needs. China would probably take Taiwan while we were distracted with another pointless mideast war. It's time to call a spade a spade.


Furthermore, Il also hold Biden responsible for those 3 American soldiers in Jordan who died, but for a different reason than you do. I contend that they died because Biden has clearly displayed bias in favor of Israel and against Palestinian civilians. Israel has a legitimate and righteous beef with those terrorists responsible for planning October 7, but what does it do? Instead of taking out the bad guys by capturing or killing the terrorists responsible for planning October 7, the IDF turned 1.87 million people into homeless refugees on the brink of starvation, and killed over 20,000 civilians, mostly women and children, using F-16s that we provided, a clear collective punishment and, therefore, a clear war crime, carried out with American weapons and American taxpayer dollars. We paid for Israeli war crimes. And what does Biden do? He looks the other way, and sneaks more weapons to Israel, even without the consent of Congress.
So when Hezbollah or any number of Iranian-supported militias look at the U.S. and Israel, they, correctly, see them as one and the same, and equally deserving of reprisals. I don't support Hezbollah's or the other militias' actions for one single second, but, looking at the situation from their perspective, I can certainly see where they are coming from with regard to the U.S.'s complicity in seriously wrongful acts against Palestinian civilians in Gaza.
I know what Biden privately thinks of Netanyahu; he thinks he's a fascist scumbag who would love nothing better than to commit genocide against all Palestinians, killing them or kicking them out entirely from East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza, and claiming all of those lands for Israel, in violation of international law, and the indictable war crime of pillage. But what does Biden do? He hemms and he haws and issues sweet platitudes about the need to "protect Gaza's civilians", while doing absolutely nothing to rein in Bibi, his far right government, and the IDF.
It's beyond high time for the Biden admin to end this madness, and declare publicly that the genocide must end, as the ICJ has already ruled, the same court that prosecuted and executed high level Nazis at the end of WWII for war crimes and crimes against humanity. That's why the Arab community in America has christened Biden "Genocide Joe", and the far left and Arabs may just decide to stay home on November 7. He has Gaza's civilians' blood on his hands, just as he has those 3 American soldiers' blood on his hands. It is time for Biden to publicly call Bibi out for his war crimes, and end the funding and the supply of weapons to Israel right now, and demand an immediate and permanent cease fire.
There is a proper and an improper way to fight a war; Israel's war on Gaza has been entirely improper, and needs to end now, even though none of the originally stated war aims, which, as I stated on day one, were silly to begin with, have been achieved. America has the blood of innocent Gazan civilians on it's hands, and is complicit in the commission of war crimes. This travesty must end now, and Israel should have to pay to rebuild Gaza from their own funds, not with U.S. taxpayer dollars. It's the very least they should be required to do; in point of fact, they should also compensate, from their own taxpayer dollars, Palestinian families for unnecessary civilian deaths, just as America did in Iraq and Afghanistan when an errant U.S. airstrike based on faulty intel, for example, killed an entire wedding party of innocent civilians.
This war should have been fought as a series of special ops and drone strikes against the terrorists using the vaunted IDF's and Mosad's intelligence apparatus, not a World War II style decimation of an entire civilian population and almost complete and needless destruction of its civilian infrastructure.

tl/dr/dc

the Hague?


when they charge HAMAS then you "might" have a point (NOT). all you have is .. blatant antisemitism

[pxmcc]

why is that? do the international laws of war not apply to Israel?

the Hamas planners should be indicted and tried as well.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

tl/dr/dc

the Hague?


when they charge HAMAS then you "might" have a point (NOT). all you have is .. blatant antisemitism

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

why is that? do the international laws of war not apply to Israel?

the Hamas planners should be indicted and tried as well.

and why aren't they? see how "fair" your bs Hague is? they have no legal weight to begin with. didn't they do the same to Vlad Putin? how'd that work out?

oh snap! they've all been killed .. not by any BS Hague "edict" ... by Israel guess you can't charge a dead man with "genocide" and "terrorism"

they think those racist goat herding Palestinian terrorists are "victims"

and so do you

[pxmcc]

trying someone in the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity is a multi-step process. first, allegations must be presented to a prosecutor. second, the prosecutor must consider whether the evidence supports a possible indictment. third, a grand jury must issue an indictment. fourth, an arrest warrant is issued. fifth, the person must be taken into custody and extradited to the Hague. sixth, the person can be tried for war crimes.

if i was Putin, i'd be pretty damn cautious about setting foot outside of Russia. taking him into custody is the tricky part.

you accuse me of supporting Hamas. do legitimate war crimes-on both sides-need to be investigated, or should we just sweep Israel's possible war crimes under the rug?

i'm for justice. neither Bibi and his Zionist government nor Hamas pass the justice test. indictments need to be issued on both sides, and the truth needs to be sorted out in open trials.

and yes, it's hard to try a dead man for war crimes. but any Hamas commanders caught alive should be tried in the Hague for October 7. what they did was unspeakable. the terrorists of Hamas are in no way victims; rather, they are clear war criminals. but so is Bibi, and some members of his cabinet.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

and why aren't they? see how "fair" your bs Hague is? they have no legal weight to begin with. didn't they do the same to Vlad Putin? how'd that work out?

oh snap! they've all been killed .. not by any BS Hague "edict" ... by Israel guess you can't charge a dead man with "genocide" and "terrorism"

they think those racist goat herding Palestinian terrorists are "victims"

and so do you

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

trying someone in the Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity is a multi-step process. first, allegations must be presented to a prosecutor. second, the prosecutor must consider whether the evidence supports a possible indictment. third, a grand jury must issue an indictment. fourth, an arrest warrant is issued. fifth, the person must be taken into custody and extradited to the Hague. sixth, the person can be tried for war crimes.

if i was Putin, i'd be pretty damn cautious about setting foot outside of Russia. taking him into custody is the tricky part.

you accuse me of supporting Hamas. do legitimate war crimes-on both sides-need to be investigated, or should we just sweep Israel's possible war crimes under the rug?

i'm for justice. neither Bibi and his Zionist government nor Hamas pass the justice test. indictments need to be issued on both sides, and the truth needs to be sorted out in open trials.

and yes, it's hard to try a dead man for war crimes. but any Hamas commanders caught alive should be tried in the Hague for October 7. what they did was unspeakable.

you started this thread for one reason only ..


What happened on Oct 7 one year ago was horrific. Israel's response? Genocide and state-sponsored terrorism..


to foment antisemitism

[pxmcc]

that is incorrect. as an adult, i found out i am 20% ashkenazi jew. some of my best friends are Jewish. my favorite radio commenter is Amy Goodman. i think Yitzhak Rabin should be lionized just as much as Gandhi. i'm opposed to Zionists, not to Jewish people. and i supported their having committed war crimes with evidence. if you have evidence proving me wrong, bring it. but just because i'm opposed to the Israeli regime doesn't make me an anti-Semite.

Israel had a just war, but they fought it unjustly.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

you started this thread for one reason only ..


What happened on Oct 7 one year ago was horrific. Israel's response? Genocide and state-sponsored terrorism..


to foment antisemitism

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

that is incorrect. as an adult, i found out i am 20% ashkenazi jew. some of my best friends are Jewish. my favorite radio commenter is Amy Goodman. i think Yitzhak Rabin should be lionized just as much as Gandhi. i'm opposed to Zionists, not to Jewish people. and i supported their having committed war crimes with evidence. if you have evidence proving me wrong, bring it. but just because i'm opposed to the Israeli regime doesn't make me an anti-Semite.

Israel had a just war, but they fought it unjustly.

nonsense. Zionism was a movement for a Jewish state. there is a Jewish state, Israel. now the term "Zionist" is used by the antisemitic movement to oppose Israel. you've yet to prove your claims of "war crimes". there's always collateral damage in war, even "friendly fire" deaths. is that a "war crime"? of course not.

https://www.vox.com/2018/11/20/18080...rael-palestine


Zionism is Israel’s national ideology. Zionists believe Judaism is a nationality as well as a religion, and that Jews deserve their own state in their ancestral homeland, Israel, in the same way the French people deserve France or the Chinese people should have China. It’s what brought Jews back to Israel in the first place, and also at the heart of what concerns Arabs and Palestinians about the Israeli state.


it's about having both a national and religious identity. if you oppose "Zionists" you oppose Israel.

how has Israel fought "unjustly"?

the media has been feeding you false rhetoric.

[txdot-guy]

Originally Posted by pxmcc

why is that? do the international laws of war not apply to Israel?

the Hamas planners should be indicted and tried as well.

Unfortunately International laws of war only apply to the countries that follow the law and those countries that lose. Because the winners write the rules they choose to follow.

When this current round of fighting is done the Hamas planners will be dead.

[texassapper]

Originally Posted by txdot-guy

When this current round of fighting is done the Hamas planners will be dead.

Check!

https://x.com/EphyDude613/status/1847014774917230630

https://x.com/M98174Abdi/status/1846916354059751455

On the upside, the war crimes trial just saved a bunch of money and time.

[Precious_b]

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

when are you going to stop claiming Israel's response to blatant terrorism and antisemitism is genocide? ...

Sure comes across as genocidal. See my comments about gnat and sledge hammer.

Originally Posted by The_Waco_Kid

...they think those racist goat herding Palestinian terrorists are "victims"

and so do you

Those goat herders, as you term them with your post that can be summed up as revisionist history, have been there longer than the Jews. Forgive me, I meant to post that when you gave "your" version of history of Israel and when Jerusalem was founded. You didn't go back far enough in time. Even the bible says people were occupying the land when the Jews showed up. Possibly even labeled the Canaanites. And they had a place there called Jebusite. Archeology says they predate the Jews by 1,000 years.

So, the Palestinians have the land by adverse possession (if that is the right legal term.)

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

Sure comes across as genocidal. See my comments about gnat and sledge hammer.




Those goat herders, as you term them with your post that can be summed up as revisionist history, have been there longer than the Jews. Forgive me, I meant to post that when you gave "your" version of history of Israel and when Jerusalem was founded. You didn't go back far enough in time. Even the bible says people were occupying the land when the Jews showed up. Possibly even labeled the Canaanites. And they had a place there called Jebusite. Archeology says they predate the Jews by 1,000 years.

So, the Palestinians have the land by adverse possession (if that is the right legal term.)

amusing revisionist legal theory. also you forgot my point about nomadic goat herders. ancient arabs lived a Bedouin lifestyle. know what that is? this ..

The Bedouin are a nomadic people of the Middle East and North Africa who traditionally herded animals in the desert:

• Origin
  The Bedouin originated in the Syrian and Arabian deserts and spread across the Arab world after Islam. The word Bedouin comes from the Arabic word badawī, which means "desert-dweller".

by your rather unique and incorrect interpretation just because some goat herding Bedouin walked across the land Jerusalem was founded on they own it.

so when is the UK going to give Londinium (London) back to the Italian descendants of the Roman Empire? the Romans founded it.


bahahahaha

[Precious_b]

Guess you forgot a "Bedouin lifestyle" does not include building cities.

Please show us that the city Jebusite moved around in the middle east.

We'll be waiting.

[The_Waco_Kid]

Originally Posted by Precious_b

Guess you forgot a "Bedouin lifestyle" does not include building cities.

Please show us that the city Jebusite moved around in the middle east.

We'll be waiting.

you won't wait long. your theory is false. your claim that arabs "were in the area" before Jerusalem was founded means nothing. they have no claim to Jerusalem.