Have you noticed that the weather is getting worse?

[lacrew_2000]

Omahan, I have experimented with putting a system like this on my compact car. Unfortunately it screws up the oxygen ratio, which the O2 sensor reads, and the computer compensates by sending more fuel, making it run rich and poorer mileage. I think there is potential in using water to boost power, and perhaps efficiency with these systems; but, the computer has to be adjusted to do it. I don't think these systems would ever be standard equipment on a car though, since the consumer would have to periodically add water, make sure the water didn't freeze, add a salt to the water periodically to improve the process, and periodically change out the stainless steel anode. Too much effort for a 4-5% increase in mileage, when you can achieve the same with just driving less agressively.

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

Oil: Also getting cleaner (remarkable difference when we went unleaded for example). Some fuel efficiency has actually been sacrificed in order to clean emmissions further (EGR System, AIR System, Converters, etc.) No known fuel today can fuel a car as efficiently as gasoline.

Thank "government mandates" for cleaning up gasoline engines. If Republicans had their way, we'd still be driving around big block V8 cars on leaded fuel that barely made 200 horsepower. (Yes...go check the horsepower figures and how horsepower was rated back then.) If you truly believe that global climate change is "hysteria" then you should blank off your EGR and replace your cats with a test pipe.

As far as the "no known fuel claim"...hello? DIESEL? It has much more BTUs than gasoline and is fuel throttled, not air throttled. So it doesn't need a restrictive throttlebody and doesn't have to waste fuel for cylinder cooling.

DD, the transportation sector is where most of the problems lie and it is where we can kill a dozen birds with one stone. The U.S. has plenty of coal, wind, sunlight, shoreline, hydro, geothermal sites, natural gas, etc. But cars run on petroleum. And that oil is price fixed by OPEC using cuts in production. (OPEC=2/3 of the world oil reserves, 1/3 of world oil production)
Since vehicles can be updated and replaced rapidly compared to other sources of pollution we can quickly reduce pollution, screw over the Arabs, and save money at the fuel pump. How? We make cars that are more like the VW L1 and less like Hummers.

But, since I know people are stupid and do stupid things...we should focus on fleets before personally owned vehicles. Natural gas powered semi truck fleets might be worth a look. Or semi trucks could switch to a diesel-electric powertrain like that used in locomotives for 50 years. That would let them downsize their engines. Rental car fleets should all be plug-in hybrids.

[Guest072311]

more thoughts on the weather?
[ame="http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=17909"]http://www.eccie.net/showthread.php?t=17909[/ame]

[Omahan]

I saw a weather report this morning that said we could have snow in all 48 contiguous states today. I didn't watch the entire report so they may have meant the last ones that haven't had snow yet this winter will get snow today or that it will all happen today. Or maybe I just misunderstood what she said since I wasn't paying much attention before I heard that.

[dirty dog]

'we'd still be driving around big block V8 cars on leaded fuel that barely made 200 horsepower. (Yes...go check the horsepower figures and how horsepower was rated back then.)"

I am not sure what big block V8 cars you were driving but mine produced much more than 200 hp. When the first gas crisis hit in 1974 we saw a reduction of horsepower, but prior to that horsepower was in abundance regardless of whether it was measured at the crackshaft, or the rear tires.

"We make cars that are more like the VW L1 and less like Hummers."

Apparently your not a family man or you would know that a VW L1 is not practical for moving a family around. I guess we should limit production of children too?

[BigMikeinKC]

Just a thought, we someone says prove global warming, it will always be challenged. It turns into a he said, she said debate. As for me, I err on the side of caution.

Remember, gravity is just a theory - but I tend to believe in it.

[lacrew_2000]

The lead phase out was begun by EPA mandate (executive branch), in 1973, when Nixon was president. The 1996 Clean Air Act, passed by a Republican congress, banned lead in fuel completely. So much for painting those dastardly Republicans as dirty leaded bastards.

Diesel?

Last week, average cost gasoline = 2.65, average cost diesel = 2.77
Gas = 125,000 btu/gal, diesel = 138,700 btu/gal
Leads to gas gives you 47,000 btu per dollar, diesel gives you 50,000 btu per dollar, or 6% more output.

but, because of high compression, a diesel weighs 25% more than a gasoline engine. This makes a diesel a great idea for heavy equipment, and a terrible idea for a compact car....but don't take my word for it, just notice that the vast majority of automobiles use gasoline (and not by accident). This basic concept is a learning point in the automotive chapter of basic thermodynamics classes. There are also unique health concerns related to diesel pollution...whole different subject.

So, I'll say it again, gasoline is our best fuel option, hands down. Want to neuter OPEC? Just drill here. ANWAR, Florida Gulf coast, Colorado's west slope...why can't we drill there?

[BigMikeinKC]

Perhaps if we (Europe actually - most of our oil imports are from Mexico) drain the OPEC dry, then guess who is in the catbird's seat...

[Guest072311]

Originally Posted by BigMikeinKC

Perhaps if we (Europe actually - most of our oil imports are from Mexico) drain the OPEC dry, then guess who is in the catbird's seat...

Hum.......

OPEC* INCLUDES THESE COUNTRIES?
GULF COUNTRIES
Iraq
Kuwait
Qatar
Saudi Arabia
United Arab Emirates

AFRICA
Libya
Nigeria
Algeria
Angola

SOUTH AMER
Ecuador
Venezuela

[MsElena]

49 States experienced snowfall today. Mother nature is making us pay for something.

[Guest121212]

Originally Posted by MsElena

49 States experienced snowfall today. Mother nature is making us pay for something.

Shovels.

Kisses,

- Jackie

[Longermonger]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

I am not sure what big block V8 cars you were driving but mine produced much more than 200 hp. When the first gas crisis hit in 1974 we saw a reduction of horsepower, but prior to that horsepower was in abundance regardless of whether it was measured at the crackshaft, or the rear tires.

Apparently your not a family man or you would know that a VW L1 is not practical for moving a family around. I guess we should limit production of children too?

a) I was going to ask you what a "crackshaft" is but "crack" and "crank" are both funny.
b) The large majority of V8 engines sold were NOT punched-out big-block race engines. Most were lame smaller displacement engines with crappy heads that struggled to make power or rev over 4000rpm. They SOUND powerful because the manufacturers rated them on flywheel horsepower on a stand with no accessories...or whatever number sounded good. Ford was NOTORIOUS for fibbing. You know that the 5.0L Mustang V8 is only 4.9L, right?
c) The VW L1 is a brilliant design that could easily be scaled up. While most current designs are pure crap and couldn't be scaled down small enough to be efficient. Ever.

[Longermonger]

Did Nixon time travel back from 1973 to 1970 to sign the (Democrats') Clean Air Act? That was a bill from a Democratically controlled House and Senate. Or does the President get credit because he signed it? Because I notice you left out the name and party of the guy who signed the 1996 version of the CAA. Tsk, tsk. I see what you did there.

You have a few timeline problems. How could Nixon start the phase out in 1973 when he signed the Lead-Based Paint Poisoning Prevention Act in 1971? Thanks for helping me "paint" (pun intended) those dstardly Republicans as dirty leaded bastards. I use lead-based paint, btw.

See: Subaru's all aluminum Diesel engine. These have been on the road in Europe for almost 3 years, I think. That one car pretty much disproves everything you claimed (other than the part where you agreed with me that Diesel makes more power...disproving your earlier point).

You just don't seem to get that free market supply and demand rules don't apply when a price fixing cartel like OPEC is in the mix so I'm going to have to resort to Hookernomics.

HOOKERNOMICS: Okay, *normally* you'd be able to supply more oil and drop the price just like more streetwalkers will drop the market price of a BJ, given a constant amount of customers. But OPEC is a pimp. He's got thousands of girls working the streets and doesn't care if you add one or two more streetwalkers ten years from now. He'd just reduce supply to fix the price and save those ho's for later. Trying to increase supply is a fool's errand. A better strategy is for everybody to "go green" and find an alternative to the SWs. The OPEC pimp will soon go broke and the streets will be clean. TaDa!

Originally Posted by lacrew_2000

The lead phase out was begun by EPA mandate (executive branch), in 1973, when Nixon was president. The 1996 Clean Air Act, passed by a Republican congress, banned lead in fuel completely. So much for painting those dastardly Republicans as dirty leaded bastards.

Diesel?

Last week, average cost gasoline = 2.65, average cost diesel = 2.77
Gas = 125,000 btu/gal, diesel = 138,700 btu/gal
Leads to gas gives you 47,000 btu per dollar, diesel gives you 50,000 btu per dollar, or 6% more output.

but, because of high compression, a diesel weighs 25% more than a gasoline engine. This makes a diesel a great idea for heavy equipment, and a terrible idea for a compact car....but don't take my word for it, just notice that the vast majority of automobiles use gasoline (and not by accident). This basic concept is a learning point in the automotive chapter of basic thermodynamics classes. There are also unique health concerns related to diesel pollution...whole different subject.

So, I'll say it again, gasoline is our best fuel option, hands down. Want to neuter OPEC? Just drill here. ANWAR, Florida Gulf coast, Colorado's west slope...why can't we drill there?

[Bubba]

This has been a fascinating, informative and pretty civil discussion! Thanks!!! I really enjoy these types of threads. It's kind of like actually reading the articles in Playboy. You never know what you will learn!!

Here is my nickel's worth:

In the short term I think we need to become less dependent on foreign oil. I think most people would agree with this!

For the long term I think we have to develop some type of renewable energy source.. We can't keep taking from the earth. Regardless of how much oil or natural gas there is left we can't keep using if forever.

[BiggestBest]

Originally Posted by Bubba

It's kind of like actually reading the articles in Playboy. You never know what you will learn!!

You're absolutely right, Bubba. Playboy has articles? I'll check that out.