Trans Activist Violently Assaults Riley Gaines at SFSU Speech

[Smarty1]

Originally Posted by tommy156

I agree that threats of violence have no place in political dialog. Everyone on either side should agree with this, but sadly, even some political leaders on a certain side we could mention don't agree with this.

Can you provide specific examples of Republican leaders actually threatening violence? I don’t claim to follow every statement made by them, so I might have missed something. If you are referring to Trump’s supposed incitement to violence on J6, what he actually said was “Go to the Capitol and peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” One can question the wisdom of insisting without evidence that an election was fraudulent, but that statement is not really a threat of violence nor an incitement to violence. It was a n invitation to protest the certification of election results. Surely people have the right to do so, even if there is no reason to believe the election was fraudulent.

Now by contrast, a statement such as “Gorsuch and Kavenaugh will reap the whirlwind” in reference to the Dobbs decision is at least as much a veiled threat as what Trump said on J6. At least the individual who attempted to assassinate Kavenaugh seemed to think so. I do not favor holding politicians responsible for the actions of crazy followers, but if you are going to blame Trump for incitement of the January 6 riot, to be fair and intellectually honest, you should also place blame on Senator Schumer for the assassination attempt on a Supreme Court justice.

[tommy156]

Originally Posted by Smarty1

Can you provide specific examples of Republican leaders actually threatening violence? I don’t claim to follow every statement made by them, so I might have missed something. If you are referring to Trump’s supposed incitement to violence on J6, what he actually said was “Go to the Capitol and peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.” One can question the wisdom of insisting without evidence that an election was fraudulent, but that statement is not really a threat of violence nor an incitement to violence. It was a n invitation to protest the certification of election results. Surely people have the right to do so, even if there is no reason to believe the election was fraudulent.

Now by contrast, a statement such as “Gorsuch and Kavenaugh will reap the whirlwind” in reference to the Dobbs decision is at least as much a veiled threat as what Trump said on J6. At least the individual who attempted to assassinate Kavenaugh seemed to think so. I do not favor holding politicians responsible for the actions of crazy followers, but if you are going to blame Trump for incitement of the January 6 riot, to be fair and intellectually honest, you should also place blame on Senator Schumer for the assassination attempt on a Supreme Court justice.

Two very obvious ones are, 1) on January 6, when Guiliani called for "trial by combat". There's no other way to interpret those words. It was an incitement to violence.

And 2) early on in trump's 2016 campaign, he called for a protester to be roughed up at one of his rallies, and that trump himself would "cover your legal fees". Again, no other way to interpret that request. Rough him up and I'll pay your legal fees. Pretty straightforward call to violence.

I'm sure there are others, but those two are iron-clad, indefensible calls for political violence.

[Dr-epg]

Gentlemen we are getting off topic. Let’s stick to the subject

“ Trans Activist Violently Assaults Riley Gaines at SFSU Speech”

[HDGristle]

Originally Posted by Smarty1

HDGristle,

I wasn’t there; you weren’t there. So I agree; we don’t know for sure if there were any punches actually thrown. But can we agree that there were threats of violence, even if there was no actual violence? After all, police ushered Ms Gaines into a room where they secured her from the protestors. Surely they did not do so because the protesters wanted to have a debate and sing Kumbaya with her.

Now, legally, there are two separate crimes, and people often confuse and conflate them. Assault and battery are not the same thing. If a protester actually punches Gaines, then that protestor is guilty of battery. If a protestor threatened to punch her, then that protestor is guilty of assault, and this is the case regardless of whether or not a pinch actually was thrown. So can we not condemn these protestors even if there were no actual punches thrown? There was obviously the threat of violence, even if there was no actual violence. Can we not agree that threats of violence should be off limits in political debate?

Sure we can. Wanted to see who bit on my "harsh words" line. Threats of violence to intimidate, bully or coerce aren't appropriate. If she wants to pursue charges she should do so.

I wouldn't recommend having the assault and battery discussion without looking at the state regs though. Those aren't universally codified in all jurisdictions so the Devil's in the details.

And, let's also step back for a moment and recognize that there were some very fine people in that crowd that behaved appropriately rather than label the whole crowd. Focus on those who engaged in illegal behavior without pretending they were all at fault or have the the same level of potential culpability. The bad apples, instigators, agitators and thugs.

If there's a case to make and they can be proven of committing a crime they should do the time.

[HDGristle]

This is for Salty, since he was disappointed to see a contrast elsewhere vs what he saw in this convo.

As for Riley Gaines, let's have that convo in that thread. Same things I said about Dylan apply to her for standing up. David Hogg, too. Any number of people who take constant online abuse. But no one decided to make that point and we're 10 pages deep here before it was made. Skepticism over specific allegations can exist concurrently with being impressed by someone's temerity. As well as disgust with their deeds and words. Or putting them on a pedestal as a paragon of your belief system. Respecting their humanity. Being concerned for their safety. Doesn't all get discussed.

In reference to this

I don't know, like or follow Dylan Mulvaney. I do know that it takes guts to be out in the public eye this way. Because the same bullshit, intolerance, nastiness and dehumanization we see in this thread is flying in her direction a million-fold. And I hope she's handling it well.

Replace Dylan Mulvaney with Riley Gains and it still holds true for me. Happy to discuss further with Salty or anyone else.

[berryberry]

“That is wrong”: DeSantis says the students at San Francisco State University who harassed and assaulted Riley Gaines should be expelled.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1658129168993865732

[HDGristle]

Anyone charged yet? Lawsuit filed?

Just checking.

[HDGristle]

Any news?