Abortion - remember no religious content...

[Mara_Amor]

There is nothing more agitating then ignorant, IGNORANT remarks. Over crowding, the child would probably be a rapist or a murderer. That is crap people tell themselves to feel better. Or to make it easier to turn away.
People really need to do some serious research and not just state their stupid uneducated thoughts.
Watch the silent scream 1-5 on you-ube! Read a BOOK!!
I am not religious in anyway. I do think it should be regulate. (incest, rape, health problems) The child is an innocent human being.
The side effects can be detrimental both physically and mental. (to the woman)

Your choice as a woman should be to keep your legs close or birth control.
Not to kill your child.

[MsElena]

DD.

You do realize that not one form of birth control is 100% effective correct with the exception of abstinence?

Iliana,

Your comment on people in this thread being ignorant, making uneducated remarks.....HELLO POT, KETTLE CALLING.

Can you have a discussion without hurling the insults?

As for your comment, "Your choice as a woman should be to keep your legs close or birth control," see my statement to DD above.


A person makes decisions based upon what THEY want to do, not what someone else wants them to do. Your personal beliefs are yours, not mine. Don't insult someone for what they believe in just because its not what you believe. This country is supposed to be the land of the free, where people can choose to believe in whatever they want without fear of prosecution.

If people always responded the way you do, its no wonder some are afraid to speak their minds.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by dirty dog

"to women who have no other choice?"

They have a choice, use birth control.

I agree. I also think that birth control shouldn't be such a taboo topic among young girls and boys and parents. Be realistic. Know your teenager has urges. Discuss birth control with them. Give your son condoms. Give your daughter the pill/shot/ring. Tell them that is not a license for sex, but a prerequisite in case they do decide to have sex. Help avoid such a drastic decision such as abortion.

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by Iliana_Alba

There is nothing more agitating then ignorant, IGNORANT remarks.

I think I might be able to think of something more agitating.

[BigMikeinKC]

Damn, better use that Masters as toliet paper. My wall of books, I guess I can just use those to wipe too.

The problem with this thread is that the issue of religious beliefs is banned. Some people view a fetus and some a baby. The question of when a soul is put into it and your religious beliefs have to come into play. Some even believe that the sperm and egg are sacred.

But then what do I know, I'm ignorant.

Speaking from personal experience, in my young and foolish days I got a girl pregnant. She decided to have an abortion and I agreed. Over 35 years later, I still think about it and wonder if it was the right decision and yes, I do feel guilt too. But, I still believe it is a personal choice for a woman to make.

Now to lighten the mood, from Monty Python:

There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,...
...God get quite irate.

Let the Pagan spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

[BigMikeinKC]

Originally Posted by MsElena

DD.

You do realize that not one form of birth control is 100% effective correct with the exception of abstinence?

I can think of one virgin who might disagree with that statement, Elena.

[BiggestBest]

Originally Posted by MsElena

You do realize that not one form of birth control is 100% effective correct with the exception of abstinence?

A hysterectomy? Just mentioned for completeness ... I know there are reasons not to choose that one.

The 50 million(1) abortions since Roe V. Wade didn't happen because birth control devices are not 100% effective. The vast majority (99.999%) happened because there was no birth control used.

[MsElena]

Originally Posted by BiggestBest

A hysterectomy? Just mentioned for completeness ... I know there are reasons not to choose that one.

The 50 million(1) abortions since Roe V. Wade didn't happen because birth control devices are not 100% effective. The vast majority (99.999%) happened because there was no birth control used.

Could you please site your source of the 99.999% where no birth control was used?

Because this is what I found. I was directed to this site by numerous people today, including a Catholic Priest. Scroll down to CONTRACEPTIVE USE. Kinda knocks your 99.999% source out of the water.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

[BigMikeinKC]

Has the "discussion" on this subject had a profound effect on anyone? Anybody change their minds or go hmmm?

Seems like everyone who has posted has the same stance. Now, its just turning into a pissing contest.

Perhaps its time for this thread to end gracefully. I for one am done on the subject.

[BiggestBest]

Catholics are against all birth control except abstinence. It is not surprising that a Catholic priest would reference data claiming that birth control does not work.

The section you reference says that the vast majority of the 54% of women who had abortions "used their (contraceptive) method inconsistently". The other 46% did not use contraceptives.

More importantly, the data was "self-reported". And it was reported by ladies getting abortions (implying that they were already "pro-choice" on some level).

I stand by my 99.999% number.

Originally Posted by MsElena

Could you please site your source of the 99.999% where no birth control was used?

Because this is what I found. I was directed to this site by numerous people today, including a Catholic Priest. Scroll down to CONTRACEPTIVE USE. Kinda knocks your 99.999% source out of the water.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

[MsElena]

BB,

But I'm asking you to site the source......again. If you're going to put numbers out there, please site the source.

The priest was the last person I talked to today because he's a family friend and also very open minded. He believe's that birth control should be allowed and used.

Of course the report is "self reported," how else are they done? All polls are done by two ways, you asking the questions or you giving the person a paper to fill out. Now, most people will be more honest when filling out the paper by themselves (i've given survey's in school).

Now, when I did this little research project today, I called, visited sites of both pro-life and pro-choice:


• Fifty-four percent of women who have abortions had used a contraceptive method (usually the condom or the pill) during the month they became pregnant. Among those women, 76% of pill users and 49% of condom users report having used their method inconsistently, while 13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use.[9]

• Forty-six percent of women who have abortions had not used a contraceptive method during the month they became pregnant. Of these women, 33% had perceived themselves to be at low risk for pregnancy, 32% had had concerns about contraceptive methods, 26% had had unexpected sex and 1% had been forced to have sex.[9]

• Eight percent of women who have abortions have never used a method of birth control; nonuse is greatest among those who are young, poor, black, Hispanic or less educated.[9]

[kcbigpapa]

Originally Posted by BiggestBest

Catholics are against all birth control except abstinence. It is not surprising that a Catholic priest would reference data claiming that birth control does not work.

The section you reference says that the vast majority of the 54% of women who had abortions "used their (contraceptive) method inconsistently". The other 46% did not use contraceptives.

More importantly, the data was "self-reported". And it was reported by ladies getting abortions (implying that they were already "pro-choice" on some level).

I stand by my 99.999% number.

BB, you crack me up. According to your numbers, of the 50 million abortions since Roe v Wade, only 500 were because of a failure in contraception. I suppose you have all 500 names that you can produce. I think there is a 109.354783% chance you are making up that number.

Would you be so kind as to inform us how else the numbers would be reported besides "self-reporting" as a means?

[BiggestBest]

Originally Posted by MsElena

The priest was the last person I talked to today because he's a family friend and also very open minded. He believe's that birth control should be allowed and used.

If that's true, then he is going completely against the Catholic church's view. In that church, there is no room for other views on this point. By decree, that church is completely against abortion even including ANYTHING that prevents conception.

The old joke is that Catholics believe in the Rhythm Method and "Bingo!".

The group who wasn't surveyed was the group who decided to keep their babies which includes the "pro-life" ladies.

Using your numbers, of the 54% who had used contraception in the same month they got pregnant, only "13% of pill users and 14% of condom users report correct use". Of all abortions, that's 6% of pill users and 7% of condom users who CLAIM that they used it correctly. In other words, "I did it right, so it wasn't my fault that I have to get an abortion".

Even using your own numbers, the vast majority of abortions happened because birth control wasn't used correctly, if at all.

[MsElena]

BB,

Are you going to site your source of that 99.999% or admit that its a made up number?

Seriously, birth control of any type (withdrawl, pill, condom, rhythm, iud, shot, etc) with the exception of abstinence can fail. I personally know of 6 ladies who were on birth control (shot & pill) who got pregnant.

You keep insinuating that all women who get abortions don't use birth control which isn't true.

Unless you have the sources to back up your statements, I'll consider this done.

[BiggestBest]

I would suggest that you know 6 women who CLAIM that they were using the pill/shot correctly and still got pregnant. It is natural for people to look for someone or something to blame when things go wrong.

I never insinuated that ALL women who get abortions don't USE birth control. Statistically, for the vast majority, if they use birth control, they don't use it correctly.

The 99.999% was too high. The actual number is 99.7% when used correctly:

http://www.sexetc.org/faq/birth_control/987

There is a bigger difference when you take into account the "oops, I forgot my pill but I'm having sex anyway" factor.