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I suppose you eat your breakfast 400 yards away from 3000 Cubans who want to kill you.....
Look, they may have believed in your glorious version of the mythical magic of war, rather than the economic interests of the wealthy planter class, but more likely, they knew what a lousy deal they had and that ole Stonewall Jackson's Officers would have shot them if they didn't fight. General MacArthur had this to say about war,
"It has been said, in effect, that I was a warmonger. Nothing could be further from the truth. I know war as few other men now living know it, and nothing to me is more revolting. I have long advocated its complete abolition, as its very destructiveness on both friend and foe has rendered it useless as a means of settling international disputes"
Wow, you are clueless.
Maybe I am misunderstanding, but are you serious when you make the argument that the reason those confederate soldiers advanced across that field was because "Ole Stonewall Jackson's officers would have shot them if they didn't fight.?"
I guess my first response to that utterly absurd assertion would be, "Where do you come up with it?" And, I'll wait for you to educate all of us on that one. I've been reading about the civil war, and the battle at Gettysburg for 40 years. And, I have never once heard or read that any Confederate officer forced Confederate soldiers forward at gunpoint during Pickett's charge...Or, frankly, at any other time.
Regarding your assertions about the "Planter Class" and all that....I'm guessing you are part of the equivalent of that class here 150 years later. Which is fine, and well and good...but, it illustrates your inability to understand why somebody would pick up a rifle and walk into combat. You clearly wouldn't. But, sometimes, somebody has to. And, you're good with that...as long as it's not you or yours.
I was born in the north and lived there for the first 13 years of my life. I then moved to the south and go back to visit family.
IMHO....people living in the north are far more racist. However, they limit their interaction and so they think they aren't. But when they do come in contact their actions are VERY telling.
You need to read more for your own edification if you believe all of the slaves transported in the Atlantic Slave trade were sent to toil out the rest of their lives on plantations in the American South. Less than 6.5% (wiki) of slaves transported in the Atlantic Slave trade were destined to British/U.S. North America. Further, "the Atlantic slave traders, ordered by trade volume, were: the Portuguese, the British, the French, the Spanish, the Dutch, and the Americans" (wiki). Those American slave ships were mostly financed and built in the northeast: New York, Connecticut, Delaware, Massachusetts and Rhode Island. Accordingly, those slave ships were mastered by captains from those self-same colonies/states.
As you read on this subject, you'll learn that the African slave trade did not begin, nor did it end, with the American South; where too many modern-day hypocrites wish to dump disproportionate blame. Starting in the 8th Century, the African slave trade has existed for over 1,000 years, and the greatest atrocities were visited on Africans in the West African slave trade.
Quote:
"David Livingstone wrote [28 December 1870] of the slave trade: 'To overdraw its evils is a simple impossibility ... We passed a slave woman shot or stabbed through the body and lying on the path. [Onlookers] said an Arab who passed early that morning had done it in anger at losing the price he had given for her, because she was unable to walk any longer. We passed a woman tied by the neck to a tree and dead ... We came upon a man dead from starvation ... The strangest disease I have seen in this country seems really to be broken heartedness, and it attacks free men who have been captured and made slaves.' Livingstone estimated that 80,000 Africans died each year before ever reaching the slave markets of Zanzibar. Zanzibar was once East Africa's main slave-trading port, and under Omani Arabs in the 19th century as many as 50,000 slaves were passing through the city each year." (wiki)
The West African slave trade is still alive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Jones
Look, they may have believed in your glorious version of the mythical magic of war, rather than the economic interests of the wealthy planter class, but more likely, they knew what a lousy deal they had and that ole Stonewall Jackson's Officers would have shot them if they didn't fight.
Cite where you read that nonsense, Bert!
Quote:
Arlington, Washington City, P.O
20 Apr 1861
Lt. Genl Winfield Scott
Commd U.S. Army
Genl,
Since my interview with you on the 18th Inst: I have felt that I ought not longer to retain any Commission in the Army. I therefore tender my resignation which I request you will recommend for acceptance. It would have been presented at once but for the struggle it has Cost me to separate myself from a Service to which I have divoted all the best years of my life, & all the ability I possessed. During the whole of that time, more than a quarter of a century, I have experienced nothing but kindness from my superiors & the most Cordial friendships from any Comrades. To no one Genl have I been as much indebted as to yourself for kindness & Consideration & it has always been my ardent desire to merit your approbation. I shall carry with me, to the grave the most grateful recollections of your kind Consideration, & your name & fame will always be dear to me. Save in the defense of my native state shall I ever again draw my sword. Be pleased to accept any more [illegible] wishes for “the Continuance of your happiness & prosperity & believe me
Most truly yours
R E Lee
Quote:
"It is well that war is so terrible, otherwise we should grow too fond of it." Gen Robert E. Lee Comment to James Longstreet, on seeing a Federal charge repulsed in the Battle of Fredericksburg (13 December 1862).
BTW Bert, some of the biggest plantation owners -- a mojority of the Louisiana sugar cane planters -- didn't want to secede because their primary customers were northerners (New York exporters), but those cane planters were outnumbered by the smaller, more numerous cotton planters who traded primarily with England and France.
Obviously we struck another exposed nerve in the never ending battle to get IBIdiot to STFU and GTFO.
The parrot would still be squawking "you lying, racist, dumb-fuck, Yankee jackass." Just like IBIdiot squawks day in and day out. He's going a little hard on ExNYers "ass" today. I wonder if he's got a thing for Yankee ass? Has he formally come on to you yet ExNYer, for that day is nigh.
But at least he's decided that I'm a cum-gobbling golem fucktard. I wonder how many of those words (snick) he found in his Merriam-Webster's.
At which point does the rest of the brain just shut down and the primal urge to eat shit take over? I think Corpy reached that point about two years ago.
IBBuffon, that is worse than I would even expect from you.
NOTHING in your long, bombastic diatribe diminishes the atrocity of slavery in the US south even a little.
What is your stupid argument, that because other people were complicit, that some how makes the confederate slave economy less evil? No one was claiming every slave wound up on a southern plantation. No one said Africans, Europeans, and northerners didn't have some pretty sleazy, bad people as well. But any decent human would admit the slave-based way of life in the south was evil. Every death on a slave ship or a plantation--whether from disease, lynching, or shooting--was a an inhuman part of the southern lifestyle that should be abhorred by everyone.
For you to try and say "it wasn't really that evil because others did bad things too" is disgusting, even for you.
IBBuffon, that is worse than I would even expect from you.
NOTHING in your long, bombastic diatribe diminishes the atrocity of slavery in the US south even a little.
What is your stupid argument, that because other people were complicit, that some how makes the confederate slave economy less evil? No one was claiming every slave wound up on a southern plantation. No one said Africans, Europeans, and northerners didn't have some pretty sleazy, bad people as well. But any decent human would admit the slave-based way of life in the south was evil. Every death on a slave ship or a plantation--whether from disease, lynching, or shooting--was a an inhuman part of the southern lifestyle that should be abhorred by everyone.
For you to try and say "it wasn't really that evil because others did bad things too" is disgusting, even for you.
IBBuffon, that is worse than I would even expect from you.
NOTHING in your long, bombastic diatribe diminishes the atrocity of slavery in the US south even a little.
What is your stupid argument, that because other people were complicit, that some how makes the confederate slave economy less evil? No one was claiming every slave wound up on a southern plantation. No one said Africans, Europeans, and northerners didn't have some pretty sleazy, bad people as well. But any decent human would admit the slave-based way of life in the south was evil. Every death on a slave ship or a plantation--whether from disease, lynching, or shooting--was a an inhuman part of the southern lifestyle that should be abhorred by everyone.
For you to try and say "it wasn't really that evil because others did bad things too" is disgusting, even for you.
No one is arguing that slavery isn't reprehensible, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man, but those slave ships you so despise were captained, by and large, by New Yorkers, or NE Yankees, just like your ggggranddad, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man -- not southerners. Rather, you choose to lie and distort historical facts to make your pretentious Yankee ass feel better, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man, but Yankees were complicit in the slave trade and seriously profited -- 40ȼ's out of every dollar -- from the labor of plantation slavery, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man. Try as you might, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man, you are as tainted as any southerner you try to hang your pretentious accusations on, and you're a fucking hypocrite when you deny the complicity of the North. So, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man, take your pretentiousness and shove it up your large hairy ass.
Originally Posted by ExNYer
I say life for a black man in the antebellum South was worse than the life of the average Russian or Chinese under communism. Evidently, you lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, you've never read anything about Mao's "Great Leap Forward" where peasants were marched to the fields under armed guards and forced to toil long hours.
Sounds like the Confederacy.
Those that refused to work were taken away from their families and killed, you lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. Those that failed to produce because they lacked the ability to do so were taken away from their families and killed, you lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
Sounds like the Confederacy.
Those who did produce often watched their family members die from starvation as the state took the fruit of their labor to sell on the international market. Sounds like the Confederacy.
And the Confederacy was worse because they outright killed or shortened the lives of EVERY black field hand in slavery. The worked them to death. The Chinese never did that to anymore than a small percentage of their population. But their population was so big that even a small number came out to a large number.
.
You disagree, but you like to state your mere opinion like it is a fact. FACT, not opinion: you lyingly claimed the "Confederate States" -- all of them -- wrote "Declarations of Secession" that you claimed were "like the Declaration of Independence"; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
FACT. I never said that ALL of them had Declarations of Secession. I said the Confederate States wrote Declarations of Secession and I gave an example of South Carolina.
FACT, not opinion: only four states wrote documents similar to those you cited, and none of those documents you cited formally broke the bonds of Union like the Declaration of Independence; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
Bullshit. More opinion masqureading as facts. They are called "Declaration of Secession", not "Declaration of Complaints" asshole. And they were ratified by state conventions or legislatures. OF COURSE they were FORMAL document. How could they not be? What exactly is your point? Are you desperately trying to subsititue the Ordinances again? They don't list reasons for secession. That's why you like changing the subject to them.
FACT, not opinion: of the documents that did formally break the bonds of Union, only three mentioned slavery; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
Yes. Three of the Ordinances of secession did mention slavery. They were short statements ratified by the legislatures. They weren't intended to be comprehensive lists of reasons for seceding the way the Declaration of Independence was. So if you want to know WHY the South seceded, you must look ELSEWHERE for reasons. But that is why your lying ass keeps trying to substitute the Ordinances for the Declarations of Secession. You want to be able to make up your own bullshit reasons.
And you want to change the subject from WHY the Confederacy seceded to WHY the war was fought. That way you can try to blame it on Lincoln. But I started this thread NOT you and the topic is why the Confederacy seceded, NOT why Lincoln fought to keep them in.
FACT, not opinion: of the documents that did formally break the bonds of Union, six were dated AFTER Mr. Lincoln called for war and four explicitly stated that Mr. Lincoln's call for war was the cause for secession; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
Like I said above, they were short statements ratified by the legislatures. They weren't intended to be comprehensive lists of reasons for seceding the way the Declaration of Independence was. So if you want to know WHY the South seceded, you must look ELSEWHERE for reasons. But that is why your lying ass keeps trying to substitute the Ordinances for the Declarations of Secession. You want to be able to make up your own bullshit reasons.
FACT, not opinion: You lyingly claimed that the war was promulgated to preserve slavery in the face of the documented and stated objectives of both Mr. Lincoln and the "rump" Congress which clearly state that the war was promulgated to preserve the Union; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
You lie again, tranny fuckee.
I never said why the war was "promulgated" (Is that your new favorite word?). That was YOU. You want to change the subject from WHY the Confederacy seceded to WHY the war was fought. That way you can try to blame it on Lincoln. But I started this thread - NOT you - and the topic is why the Confederacy seceded, NOT why Lincoln fought to keep them in.
Did you ask any black people about that? Did your lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass ask any Chinese?
Yes, as a matter of fact I did. And they told me that while communism sucked, American slavery was MUCH worse. Consider yourself refuted.
Or did you just ask all of your bigoted redneck buddies with was worse? Did your lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass ask any of Stalin's kulaks?
Wow, what a coincidence. I just happened to run into a couple of them this morning and they told me that while Stalin sucked, American slavery was MUCH worse. Consider yourself refuted.
I bet you all concluded that the black folks were just a bunch of whiners and slavery wasn't all that bad. Did your lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass ask any of the Khmer Rouge's "re-educated intellectuals"?
No, but you didn't either. But you could easily hav e asked someone black. There are a whole lot more of them in this country than there are Cambodians. So, have you expressed you ideas about the Confederacy to any black folks recently? Or are you too ashamed or afraid?
Why don't you talk to some black folks and tell them the Confederacy wasn't trying to preserve slavery. Maybe you'll get to play the "Knockout Game" with them.
I was born in the north and lived there for the first 13 years of my life. I then moved to the south and go back to visit family.
IMHO....people living in the north are far more racist. However, they limit their interaction and so they think they aren't. But when they do come in contact their actions are VERY telling.
No one is arguing that slavery isn't reprehensible, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man, but those slave ships you so despise were captained, by and large, by New Yorkers, or NE Yankees, just like your ggggranddad, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man -- not southerners. Rather, you choose to lie and distort historical facts to make your pretentious Yankee ass feel better, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man, but Yankees were complicit in the slave trade and seriously profited -- 40ȼ's out of every dollar -- from the labor of plantation slavery, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man. Try as you might, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man, you are as tainted as any southerner you try to hang your pretentious accusations on, and you're a fucking hypocrite when you deny the complicity of the North. So, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man, take your pretentiousness and shove it up your large hairy ass.
You pathetic piece of lying scum. Only you feel the need to assuage your ancestral guilt by trying to pass the blame onto others. I am not "as tainted as any southerner", not by a long shot. I may be old, but I am far less than 148. As to my ancestors, any guilt they may have had does not pass down in the genes (and given my lineage I sincerely doubt there was any there anyway).
You are nothing but an angry, impotent little man.
Look, they may have believed in your glorious version of the mythical magic of war, rather than the economic interests of the wealthy planter class, but more likely, they knew what a lousy deal they had and that ole Stonewall Jackson's Officers would have shot them if they didn't fight.
Stonewall Jackson didn't have any officers at Gettysburg on account of the fact he was, you know, DEAD.
And your statement is idiotic. The Confederacy was a brutal institution, but it never had to rely on threats to get its soldiers to fight. You must be thinking of communism or some other "progressive" state.
Southern soldiers had a reputation for fighting hard and more than willingly. More is the pity.
NOTHING in your long, bombastic diatribe diminishes the atrocity of slavery in the US south even a little.
What is your stupid argument, that because other people were complicit, that some how makes the confederate slave economy less evil? No one was claiming every slave wound up on a southern plantation. No one said Africans, Europeans, and northerners didn't have some pretty sleazy, bad people as well. But any decent human would admit the slave-based way of life in the south was evil. Every death on a slave ship or a plantation--whether from disease, lynching, or shooting--was a an inhuman part of the southern lifestyle that should be abhorred by everyone.
For you to try and say "it wasn't really that evil because others did bad things too" is disgusting, even for you.
He is just trying to change the subject. He thinks that will somehow make the Confederacy look better.
He doesn't want to discuss that it was created to preserve slavery.
He doesn't want to take note of the fact that those "Yankee" states he despises were on the verge of ending slavery, which is why he likes to talk instead about slave shipping instead and the percentage of profit dollars.
I say life for a black man in the antebellum South was worse than the life of the average Russian or Chinese under communism. And you're a lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, and you conspicuously omitted Pol Pot.
Sounds like the Confederacy. Your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass needs to study how carpet-baggers ran the plantations during and after the war -- it wasn't any different, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
Sounds like the Confederacy. Cite where southern plantation owners purposefully killed millions of slaves, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
Sounds like the Confederacy. Cite where southern plantation owners purposefully starved millions of slaves, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
And the Confederacy was worse because they outright killed or shortened the lives of EVERY black field hand in slavery. The worked them to death. The Chinese never did that to anymore than a small percentage of their population. But their population was so big that even a small number came out to a large number. Since when is "72 million" a "small number", you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass?
FACT. I never said that ALL of them had Declarations of Secession. I said the Confederate States wrote Declarations of Secession and I gave an example of South Carolina. FACT, not opinion: you DID lyingly claim that all the "Confederate States" wrote "Declarations of Secession" that you claimed were "like the Declaration of Independence"; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
Bullshit. More opinion masqureading as facts. They are called "Declaration of Secession", not "Declaration of Complaints" asshole. And they were ratified by state conventions or legislatures. OF COURSE they were FORMAL document. How could they not be? What exactly is your point? Are you desperately trying to subsititue the Ordinances again? They don't list reasons for secession. That's why you like changing the subject to them. FACT, not opinion: you DID lyingly claim that all the "Confederate States" wrote "Declarations of Secession" that you claimed were "like the Declaration of Independence"; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
FACT, not opinion: only four states wrote documents similar to those you cited, and none of those documents you cited formally broke the bonds of Union like the Declaration of Independence; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
FACT, not opinion: of the documents that did formally break the bonds of Union, only three mentioned slavery; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
FACT, not opinion: of the documents that did formally break the bonds of Union, six were dated AFTER Mr. Lincoln called for war and four explicitly stated that Mr. Lincoln's call for war was the cause for secession; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
Yes. Three of the Ordinances of secession did mention slavery. They were short statements ratified by the legislatures. They weren't intended to be comprehensive lists of reasons for seceding the way the Declaration of Independence was. So if you want to know WHY the South seceded, you must look ELSEWHERE for reasons. But that is why your lying ass keeps trying to substitute the Ordinances for the Declarations of Secession. You want to be able to make up your own bullshit reasons. But your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass stated that everyone of the documents that broke the bonds of Union listed "slavery" as cause, and they don't; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
And you want to change the subject from WHY the Confederacy seceded to WHY the war was fought. That way you can try to blame it on Lincoln. But I started this thread NOT you and the topic is why the Confederacy seceded, NOT why Lincoln fought to keep them in. But your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass stated that the war was fought over slavery, and Mr. Lincoln and the "rump" Congress expressly stated otherwise; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
Like I said above, they were short statements ratified by the legislatures. But your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass stated that everyone of the documents that broke the bonds of Union listed "slavery" as cause, and they don't; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
They weren't intended to be comprehensive lists of reasons for seceding the way the Declaration of Independence was. So if you want to know WHY the South seceded, you must look ELSEWHERE for reasons. But your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass stated that everyone of the documents that broke the bonds of Union listed "slavery" as cause, and they don't; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
But that is why your lying ass keeps trying to substitute the Ordinances for the Declarations of Secession. You want to be able to make up your own bullshit reasons. Your lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass, said to conduct a "Google" search and the "Google" search brought up those documents: the REAL Declarations of Secession -- one for every state that did or tried to secede, so your assertion was refuted, you lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
You lie again, tranny fuckee. Your the liar, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, but you really shouldn't call your cheap, double-bagger, whoring-sister a "tranny", you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
I never said why the war was "promulgated" (Is that your new favorite word?). Your lying, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. Already cited and proved you DID say why the war was promulgated, you lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
That was YOU. You want to change the subject from WHY the Confederacy seceded to WHY the war was fought. Your lying again, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, you DID say why the war was promulgated, you lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
That way you can try to blame it on Lincoln. Mr. Lincoln did promulgate the war, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, and Mr. Lincoln said he was promulgating the war for Union; so your racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass lied and was refuted.
But I started this thread - NOT you - and the topic is why the Confederacy seceded, NOT why Lincoln fought to keep them in. Re-read your OP, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, you started a "flame thread".
Did you ask any black people about that? Did your lying, racist, dumb-fuck Yankee ass ask any Chinese?
Yes, as a matter of fact I did. And they told me that while communism sucked, American slavery was MUCH worse. Consider yourself refuted. Your lying, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, you didn't talk to a single one of the 72 million that died under communist rule.
Wow, what a coincidence. I just happened to run into a couple of them this morning and they told me that while Stalin sucked, American slavery was MUCH worse. Consider yourself refuted. Your lying, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, you didn't talk to a single one of the 52 million that died under communist rule.
No, but you didn't either. Your not lying, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, not a single one of the 7 million that died under Pol Pot was able to talk.
But you could easily hav e asked someone black. There are a whole lot more of them in this country than there are Cambodians. So, have you expressed you ideas about the Confederacy to any black folks recently? Over the course of many years, several times, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass: ask WE.
Or are you too ashamed or afraid? Nothing to be apologetic for, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
Why don't you talk to some black folks and tell them the Confederacy wasn't trying to preserve slavery. Maybe you'll get to play the "Knockout Game" with them. Wager your sorry ass would get KO'd trying to tell them what a conscientiously pretentious fuck you are, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-T
You pathetic piece of lying scum. Only you feel the need to assuage your ancestral guilt by trying to pass the blame onto others. I am not "as tainted as any southerner", not by a long shot. I may be old, but I am far less than 148. As to my ancestors, any guilt they may have had does not pass down in the genes (and given my lineage I sincerely doubt there was any there anyway).
You are nothing but an angry, impotent little man.
Don't have any "ancestral guilt", Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man. That's just another of your delusional fictions, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man. And every time you try to lay on a guilt trip, you'll find you already have baggage on that same bus, Old-Twerp: the Prophylactic Man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNYer
He is just trying to change the subject. He thinks that will somehow make the Confederacy look better.
He doesn't want to discuss that it was created to preserve slavery.
He doesn't want to take note of the fact that those "Yankee" states he despises were on the verge of ending slavery, which is why he likes to talk instead about slave shipping instead and the percentage of profit dollars.
Funny how you don't want to talk about how your mick brethren killed, maimed and lynched blacks in New York City while Union troops were being killed fighting Confederates at Gettysburg, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass. BTW, you racist, dumb-fuck Yankee jackass, ever post addressed an issue your lying ass brough up: there was no "changing the subject".
