References

[buzzbomb]

if your not insulted, that someone making up to 300 per hour is complaining about having to spend some extra time at her job, and asking her paying clients to "get it togethor", and mother fing all of buffalo, than i am happy to say, it is time for me to leave...happy bitching!!!....

[wlhrgfan]

When people don't "have it together" it's a safety issue for all in the hobbying community period. People that cannot recognize that issue are an Insult to themselves and all who traffic the board. On this matter Gabrielle is 100% correct in voicing her concerns as it benefits the whole community for those willing to heed good advice and listen. This thread addresses the safety of providers and Clients bottom line. All joking in this thread about Buffalo aside the concern is over references and proper communication as to the proper references and its effect on the hobbying community as a whole.

[MrInvisible]

Buzz, there are plenty of people who make less than the $40 an hour you say you eek out ... and they would say YOU are bitching at all you have to do to make a wage that good. Heck, they might be people who work for you. That's not a jab (or criticism), it's just that everything comes from the perspective of the person doing the talking.

That being the case ... every job comes with its hang-ups and pet peeves, whether you work for minimum wage or are regularly featured in Forbes magazine because of your enormous paycheck.

I found your perspective interesting enough to go back to the Gabrielle post that started this thread ... and I didn't take it as if she was angry at the folks in Buffalo (and it was other people who were making the Buffalo jokes), but rather that she's frustrated about how hard it can be to set something up when a guy has no references, and that she has had a lot of that as she tries to make her current travel plans.

I know from my experience that Gabrielle has been a reference for me, which is key because I'm NOT a member of those services. At this point in my life, I have no reason to visit upstate, and she knows I may never be a customer again (sadly), and yet she still puts in the time to be a reference. She doesn't complain, she has never sent me an e-mail suggesting i stop using her as a reference and, barring a change in my circumstances, she's not doing it for money she hopes to make in the future. In fact, she has told me she'll be a reference for as long as I need one.

If you read her note, she wishes that others would take the time to be equally responsive when asked to provide references, because of how much easier it would make things (and you see from all of the providers that they say that having someone give references does indeed make things easier).

Again, perspective: You took it as someone who gets well paid for their services basically complaining about the little things she has to do extra to earn her wage. I took it as someone who is at the very top of her field in the taking-care-of-business department wishing that her clients and her colleagues would put in the same effort she does.

Perhaps the biggest perspective comes from seeing the provider, of course. You suggest that criticism is not taken well on here. That's true, to a point. And if this thread had been started by a guy -- rather than a provider (and plenty of threads on references have been started by guys) -- and you had said that you hate it when a well-paid provider is complaining about how hard she has to work to confirm references, the comment might be taken differently. You might have had a bunch of guys agree with you.

But when someone who is a great example of how to do it the right way (as witnessed by so many positive reviews, etc.) speaks out, and you shout her down as being a complainer ... let's just say that anyone who has been there will feel like you are off-base.

Providers get paid well for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that they take a lot of risks. That's its own form of hard work for the money. There's no denying how hard you work for your money, but you get paid well too; at $40 an hour, you would gross more than $80,000 a year, which is more than twice the median HOUSEHOLD income in America.

Personally, I hope everyone gets their stuff together to keep providers happy and with the information they need. Barring that, I worry that providers will raise their prices ... just to cover the costs of dealing with folks who complain.

[buzzbomb]

had expected more of the same, but that was more more more more more, of the same...well done...

[buzzbomb]

your more comtemptuos of me at 40, then someone at 300.. don't worry, she ain't raising you, I'll probably be a diffrent story..

[MrInvisible]

I don't have contempt for anyone. I expect everyone -- from the lowest guy on the ladder to the highest one on the pay scale -- to have pet peeves about their job. From where they sit, they're right. And from where I sit, they all have the right to their opinion.

I can see someone who works as hard as you do, as many hours as you have to, to be frustrated that someone who gets paid more has complaints that may seem trivial to you, compared to the stuff you face in your job. Take that out of the realm of providers, and make it the boss who is bitching about the productivity of a secretary or how they can't use up their full four weeks of vacation (my brother was a civil servant who died recently with a year's worth of unused vacation and civil service time ... and yet I talked today to an executive who makes a fortune -- $500,000 a year before bonuses -- who was complaining because despite his huge salary he won't use up his vacation time this year).

I have beefs and pet peeves in my job too -- many of them similar to yours, in fact -- but I don't begrudge anyone else their complaints, or think my problems or issues are somehow bigger than theirs.

The difference here is that in voicing her frustration, Gabrielle also was pushing people in the hobby to do what the business world would consider "best practices." If you are in business, as you say, I'm sure you try to apply best practices (and that they help you keep your profits high), so I am just not sure of why you would begrudge another person trying to raise the standards and eliminate the frustrations of her job (just because she earns a better hourly wage).

You run a business. So does she. Society places a certain value on your skills and attributes (and hers too). If you can raise your prices and society pays them, more power to you. In both cases, you are trying to figure out what the market will bear, and pricing your services where you need to in order to do the best you can for yourself (and if you read "SuperFreakonomics," you'll learn a whole LOT about the economics of the provider world).

But you are basically looking down on someone who has legitimate concerns about things that are happening in her business because she earns $300/hour (I actually think her rates are lower, but I haven't looked lately, since I'm not going upstate any more).

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want someone looking down on your business concerns -- all very legitimate, the things you worry about -- because you make just $40 an hour. Their complaints are not MORE important just because they make more money, are they? (At least one of my economics professors would have argued that their time might be more important than yours since they make the higher wage ... which would suggest that your initial complaint had no merit.)

The hourly wage is NOT the issue here ... never was ...

That's the point. Common courtesy, trying to work together, trying to raise the standards so that hobbyists and providers can minimize the frustrations: THAT was the point.

And yes, I write long ... I also write fast. It's a skill, one that I use to make money in the real world. And yet, here I am, giving it away for free on the board ... not that I'm complaining or anything.

[buzzbomb]

thanks...makes sense....

[jackfengshui]

Now that there seems to be agreement that hourly earning is not an issue for this topic, I would like to comment on statements that have been made about a provider's hourly earning.

A provider might receive $X an hour, but, when you factor in her expenses associated with advertising, screening, scheduling, travels, preparations, incall venues, cancellations, no shows, and down time between appointments, her "effective" hourly rate is much less.

[Guest091813]

Hmmm...Gabby very well put..Im still waiting on a provider to return my request on a vouch..still hasn't happened and probably wont..so then now, I have to go to plan B...
Well plan B doesn't seem to work now its onto plan C....and guess what I'm sure he doesn't feel comfy about giving out his info..so guess what I will not see him..because I cannot verify him at all....And well he misses out on seeing me as well.. (awww)
I don't charge 300 an hour..However..understand this: REGARDLESS what one charges the simple FACT is that the provider needs to have a comfort level with the client and if you give her nothing towards that comfort level..well (she) (I) won't see you if there is nothing on the table to make me feel comfortable enough to invite you into my space..

Regardless what my "fees are"..regardless how "generous you are"..regardless how "handsome you are"..regardless how much "you'll rock my world". It's not gonna happen.

Now you would think with all the busts that have happened within the last year or soo you wanna make sure the provider feels safe with you and comfortable..but there is always someone..whether it be the guy that wants to see the provider and doesn't want to give out info or the provider that doesn't wanna vouch for the guy someone is always a "weak link" in the circle of chains we have created.

Jeepers..help a lady out now and again..she may turn out to be someone you really connect with and see many more times..And providers if your not willing to be a voucher for a client..put it in your adds..NOT VOUCH FRIENDLY..I def wont contact you and waste your time..more importantly..MY TIME!!!!nita..

[guest111111]

God i love you nita!

[Guest091813]

Right back atcha Doc!!!!!(you soooogetmeprrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrnn !!!!!))))

[guest111111]

and just another side note... remember this .. any lady on here does not OWE any one of us anything... they can chose who they want to see for what ever reason ...she can set her own rules, screening policies, whatever... if we decide we dont want to play by those rules.. move on... Its that simple. Stop the bitching already..

[elghund]

Stop the bitching?

I haven't had this much humor come acroos my screen since the thread about the CHJ lady......

elg.....

....oh, and somewhere....a certain nameless lady is probably chomping at the bit to respond to THIS thread, huh?

[hugh_wanstenau]

Gabrielle,

Thank you for verifying me on multiple occasions. I swear, sometime soon we'll get some time together.

[Guest111524]

if your not insulted, that someone making up to 300 per hour is complaining about having to spend some extra time at her job, and asking her paying clients to "get it togethor", and mother fing all of buffalo, than i am happy to say, it is time for me to leave...happy bitching!!!....

BuzzBomb: The purpose of this thread was not to complain about the time it takes me to check references, because that is a huge and IMPORTANT part of my job. Rather the purpose of this post was to stress the importance of everyone to work together to make the verification process successful. I spend more time emailing then I do doing actual appointments. I don't mind at all. Because when I do finally meet people, they are quality people that I enjoy. The one thing that makes me and everyone else mad is when ladies can't be bothered to respond to you. I am sure if you were using a lady as a reference and she would not respond, that would piss you off too. I love my job, the good and the bad. If I didn't love it I wouldn't do it!