Honest Question for Anyone and Everyone

[China Doll]

Originally Posted by Sa_artman

Well, if you can say with 100% confidence that people sugarcoat reviews just to be liked, I'd like to see that study. I'm sure everyone wants to be liked (except WTF) but I've read plenty of reviews that aren't sugarcoated. I think that's a generalization to say just because it's a nice review it's being sugarcoated. You need to take into account the time they're written. If a hobbyist is still fuming a scathing review might follow. A few days later and things tend to cool and maybe they're re-evaluated their experience. Maybe there's an intimidation factor that plays into the positive reviews or fear of being blacklisted on the providers forum? Obviously more providers sneak into the bcd than hobbyist do with the providers forums as I've seen providers reference reviews with first hand knowledge.

Hmm...interesting. I don't think I ever said that people sugarcoat reviews just to be liked. I said that it was a factor. I also said that I know for a fact that it is a factor, because I've had this discussion with many a hobbyist before.

[Sa_artman]

Originally Posted by China Doll

Hmm...interesting. I don't think I ever said that people sugarcoat reviews just to be liked. I said that it was a factor. I also said that I know for a fact that it is a factor, because I've had this discussion with many a hobbyist before.

Nonsense! I know for a fact that the reason of wanting to be liked makes people sugarcoat the reviews

You didn't mention factor, but then maybe I'm being persnickety. Your personal experience is that matter obviously differs from my view as you have that first hand knowledge, I won't argue that. I think we can both agree that this board needs honest reviews. That's the only
way to keep the bp crap from spilling over to this neck of the woods (pun intended).

[China Doll]

I do know for a fact that the desire to be liked makes people sugarcoat the reviews. Never did I ever (nor will I ever) say that this was the only reason for it. In other words, it is a factor. Hopefully this clears things up. I can't blame you for being persnickety, though, because I often do the very same thing.

You're right that we can both agree that the board needs honest reviews. As much as it might be nice for me to pretend that these words are the result of pure altruism, I think it would actually benefit me greatly. I think that it would make my stellar reviews stand out! But apart from that, I really have heard too many stories of guys not getting the experiences they were looking for, and the sugarcoated reviews are sometimes to blame.

[LAVixian]

Some people may be afraid of the backlash that may come from providers and/or hobbyist. Reviews are supposed to be honest, meaning, this is what went on, i do/don't recommend this provider, here is the reason why... etc.

They were not meant to be veiwed as a fighting ground. unfortunately, from time to time, it will happen. A bad reveiw is just as good as a good reveiw. They let others in on what's goin on, and you get the choice of deciding on whether or not to see providers based on these reveiws, be it good, or bad.

[China Doll]

I have been thinking a little bit about this thread, and I came to another conclusion. As I said before, overly positive reviews on providers hurt the providers who are truly good at providing am amazing experience. Another issue is the overusage of the term "girlfriend experience."

According to some, I am the last person who should be calling herself a GFE because of my CBJ-only policy. This is a topic for a another thread, though, so I beg that we forget this issue for one moment.

In my eyes, the girlfriend experience refers to how the lady makes you feel during the appointment. She truly cares about your experience, and she truly cares about you as a person. People can sense the sincerity of these things. I suppose that this can be faked, but for most good GFE providers, I think that it is sincere.

So, when the term "GFE" is used for every provider who doesn't offer the porn star experience, it makes it difficult for those who are looking for a true GFE as I define it.

Many of the review sites are set up to make the system as perfect as possible. The BCD access is a great idea in theory, but as we all know, things get leaked. One other problem is the public comments. It's often pretty easy to tell what was said in the review by looking at the public comments the guys make after. "Oh, yeah, she did x with me, too."

A lot of providers have a problem with being reviewed. Though I can get a little "holier-than-thou" about the really, really detailed reviews (it's one of my flaws, I know, but I'm tryin' to relax a little about it), I know that this is a business. The reviews on an auto dealer are a lot less personal than the reviews on someone whom you have been intimate with, but it's still a business. The consumer must be kept in mind!

A very good friend of mine once gave me an interesting take on the BCD portion of reviews. He said that it's sad that the providers can't read it because they will never know what they must improve upon. This is another good idea in theory, but if BCD was eliminated, hardly anything negative would be said at all.

Before I joined ECCIE, someone actually leaked something to me from a review here. Mods, you can punish me for this if you want, but I can't say I remember exactly who it was. I think I'm safe, though, because I wasn't a member then. Anyway, I shan't say precisely what was said, but let's say that now I know to keep my phone on at least an hour before an appointment for those who like to call before they leave.

Oh, and just as a disclaimer...I wouldn't recommend personally advising providers on how to be better at what they do.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by China Doll

I wouldn't recommend personally advising providers on how to be better at what they do.

Every provider has a right to run her own business as she sees fit. I don't offer advice in that area. It doesn't, however, prevent me from commenting on things I dislike in a review or in the ECCIE threads.

[China Doll]

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

Every provider has a right to run her own business as she sees fit. I don't offer advice in that area. It doesn't, however, prevent me from commenting on things I dislike in a review or in the ECCIE threads.

Nor do I think it should. It's good for us to be informed of the hobbyists' opinions. Charlestudor, you've always been pretty darn respectful about presenting your opinions. You always make your preferences clear without disrespecting the providers who don't follow them.

[charlestudor2005]

Originally Posted by China Doll

Charlestudor, you've always been pretty darn respectful about presenting your opinions. You always make your preferences clear without disrespecting the providers who don't follow them.

TY, but I'm not sure all providers would agree with you.

[Doove]

I think it's clear that there are going to be a myriad of reasons as to why guys may have a natural propensity to emphasize the positive, while making little issue of the negative, but since i haven't heard my rationale expressed as yet, humor me for a moment if you will. While doing so, keep in mind that my thinking may not be indicative of the majority in that i have very few experiences, and even fewer reviews. So i'm coming from that perspective.

My use of ECCIE isn't as a review board so much as it's an advertisement board. Sounds a bit counter-intuitive, but what i mean is this. I'm not out hunting down advertisements of nearly every lady out there and then coming here to get info on them to determine who i want to see and who i don't want to see based on the reviews. I'm here simply to find out from others who's worthy of my money and then i'll take the information, add in my own preferences, and narrow it down from there. In other words, i don't have much use for the negative info, i just want to hear about who's good. So i've kind of approached reviews from that perspective. Meaning, if i find an experience rewarding, i'll want to follow up on behalf of the lady and post my own little advertisement of her services. My review. If the service left me disappointed, which has only happened once, rather than criticize the lady in a public forum, i just decided to not post an advertisement for her. That, and to a lesser extent, i had no idea how i'd properly balance my review between my being utterly disappointed based on my own preferences with my suspicion that most others would find her to be a stellar provider based on more traditional tastes. But that's for another day.

Anyways, i realize my thinking is far from perfect, but it's mine and so i don't care. I fully realize that a negative review for a girl who deserves it is worse than no review. But on the same token, no review is worse than a good review. At least based on how i look at things.

Originally Posted by China Doll

A very good friend of mine once gave me an interesting take on the BCD portion of reviews. He said that it's sad that the providers can't read it because they will never know what they must improve upon. This is another good idea in theory, but if BCD was eliminated, hardly anything negative would be said at all.

Your very good friend seems to have a pretty good take on the BCD portion. After just a few short moments of contemplation, i'm not sure i don't agree. I also think it logically follows that hardly anything negative would be said. But notwithstanding the logic of it, i'm not necessarily sure that'd be the case. One thing i've always tried to do in my positive reviews is still offer up an idea or two on what i thought could have been done better on the provider's part. Admittedly, in your case China, i came up empty, but i tried. Now, a friend long ago once told me something about golf clubs. He said that a really good set of golf clubs won't make a bad golfer good, but they will make a good golfer better. And where i'm going with that is that some good constructive criticism, like a really good set of golf clubs, won't make a bad provider good, but it could go a long way to making a good provider better. And if the "negative comments" were kept above board, honest and sincere, hopefully the providers could look at them as constructive criticism intended to help the provider improve, rather than simply as criticism intended to criticize the provider.

[Laurentius]

I've never written a review on ECCIE, but I've written reviews other places.

Reviews are a human system and they will be affected by the same things that affect any other human system.

Furthermore, they combine several very volatile elements.

Reviews have the ability to cost a woman her livelihood.

Let's put reviews in some context. How often do most people get reviewed at a regular job? Once a year? And that review looks at what the person did throughout the year. The occasional super-high or low spot is evened out when the review is over such a long period.

But unless a provider is seeing a regular, there is a chance that in every individual instance of her doing her job, she will be reviewed. That holds a provider to a MUCH higher standard than the average worker.

Humans have the very interesting characteristic of emphasizing negative experiences and statements over positive. That's why politicians use negative advertising. It turns out that telling the public that "Candidate X eats babies and kills bunnies" is literally 600% more effective than saying that "Candidate Y is a really super nice guy."

A woman can have 10 absolutely stellar reviews; have a single bad day, and that one bad review can cost her more business than the 10 positive reviews have brought her.

Let's be realistic. That business means rent, electricity, food, and other necessities. That bad review has the ability to, quite literally, take food out of her mouth or that of her kids.

You want to see a woman turn into a Tasmanian Devil? Take food out of her kids' mouths. I know hobbyists who have had providers threaten to out them to their bosses, wives, etc. if they wrote (or didn't yank an already written) a bad review.

I think many hobbyists, even sans such threats, are sensitive to the devastating effect a bad review might have; and believe the effect to be disproportionate to what is reasonably deserved.

Next, there is a lot of money involved.

I'm not sure how many providers really appreciate the fact that a literal neurosurgeon, when his annualized salary is broken down to an hourly rate, earns $240/hr. Most providers I've seen charge more than a neurosurgeon. Hence, I quite reasonably expect a level of skill and knowledge commensurate with their rate.

I also think that living in a world where one collects hundreds of dollars an hour might desensitize one to the real budgets of most men. The average man's take-home pay after deductions is only about $600/week. It isn't unusual for me to drop more money on a single appointment with a provider than most men earn in a week. Even though I earn more than the average guy, I am nevertheless quite cognizant of the value of that money.

This can work in two ways. It can work in the woman's favor because people quite literally, according to brain scans, experience something more favorably when they perceive it to be expensive. One study on wine noted: " ... the sensation of pleasantness that people experience when tasting wine is linked directly to its price. And that's true even when, unbeknownst to the test subjects, it's exactly the same Cabernet Sauvignon with a dramatically different price tag."

Basically, you can put $12 wine in a $90 bottle, and people will perceive it as having better taste and smell. This exact same phenomenon applies to other products as well and would carry over to providers. So when a woman is charging more than a neurosurgeon and half-a-week's take home pay (or more) for the average guy for just an hour of her time; it literally activates certain brain regions that make her seem better than she really is. So this gives her a fair amount of "wiggle room" as long as her performance is better than horrendous.

But, if her performance is not merely bad but truly horrendous -- it can have the opposite effect. The guy has just dumped more money than two week's worth of groceries on an hour with a lady, and she just laid there playing solitaire or something. He's righteously pissed. He's aware of the opportunity cost of that money and all the other things he could have done with it. So not only does his negative review reflect her poor performance, it also reflects his anger over the loss of opportunity from the lost money.

When he writes that negative review, though, refer back to the first issue I explored. It could take food out of her kids' mouths. She might put the fear of God in him. Then he'll become cynical about providers in a hurry.

Then there is the issue of sex.

Nature is well aware of men's hesitancy to commit; so nature played a little trick on men. It made sex very very pleasurable. And it designed men so that orgasm would release bonding hormones. And it designed animals generally, including men, to be easily conditioned by pleasure and pain.

Combine them together, and you get a man wanting to "go back to the well" and have sex with a woman repeatedly. Sooner or later, in nature's plan, she gets pregnant. But pregnancy and nursing can pose problems for her hunting and gathering. But that's okay because nature made it so all those bonding hormones and the conditioning would bond the man to the woman -- at least long enough for the child to learn to walk. So he'll happily defend his mate from saber toothed tigers, and go walk for miles to harvest nuts and berries for her. He's addicted to her like crack. At least for a time.

In a hobby context, it is unlikely for a hobbyist to mate with one provider enough times in a short enough time frame to experience a full biological bond. However, he will STILL likely experience a muted version of it unless he has NPD or something similar.

Hormones and stuff don't forget to work simply because it is a paid service. Using euphemisms doesn't change the fact that sex has occurred; and therefore that the consequences of sex will be experienced. The fact that it is paid doesn't make it or its consequences any less real. That's why we use condoms.

The bonding hormones create an advantage for the woman. They quite literally put rose-colored glasses on a man and make him likely to overemphasize the positives and under-emphasize the negatives.

So, again, he will report a session as being better than it actually was unless he waits a considerable period of time before writing the review.

So livelihood, money and sex all by themselves affect reviews.

Then there are other factors.

As my cyber lover noted, people want to be liked. This is quite true and a lot of studies demonstrate that people will do downright crazy things to be liked. We are social creatures.

In addition, if a woman's previous reviews are positive, the effects of peer pressure will cause him to question himself. Look up Solomon Asch's experiments and you'll be shocked at how effective just 7 prior positive reviews will be at preventing a negative one that would otherwise have been written.

In short, in order for a woman to have a negative review written, it is best that the man not care about others liking him, if she has fewer than 7 prior positive reviews, doesn't give the man an orgasm, charges about $20 and stands to lose nothing from the negative review.

[npita]

Originally Posted by Laurentius

Let's put reviews in some context. How often do most people get reviewed at a regular job? Once a year?

Since you can fired any time, you get reviewed constantly. Try showing up late a number of times and see if your employer waits until your annual reciew to fire you. An anual review is only to address paying you more money for what you do.

But unless a provider is seeing a regular, there is a chance that in every individual instance of her doing her job, she will be reviewed.

Being self-employed has disadvantages that go along with the advantages.

That holds a provider to a MUCH higher standard than the average worker.

Really? How often do you think the average employee can just not show up for work without being out of a job? How many employees can set their own salaries based on what they feel they are worth?

Let's be realistic. That business means rent, electricity, food, and other necessities. That bad review has the ability to, quite literally, take food out of her mouth or that of her kids.

Not necessarily. In some cases, I considered a bad review by certain clients to only be an indication that the provider had some common sense. Hence it was an incentive to see her. On the other hand, most of what matters in a bad review is something that is within a providers ability to control. Showing up, showing up on time and delivering what was advertised is among those things. Furthermore, there are providers who do quite well with a no review policy and also don't advertise. Apparently, being consistently good and being reliable are enough to build a reputation by word of mouth.

Next, there is a lot of money involved.

Yep. Since I always scheduled at least two hours, there was certainly some money involved. Most of the time anywhere from 5$ - 10$, so I wasn't keen to throw it away.

You are way overanalyzing this. If a person cannot do good work at a chosen profession, then the profession is not the right one.

[Laurentius]

Originally Posted by npita

If a person cannot do good work at a chosen profession, then the profession is not the right one.

We don't disagree. I was simply giving my view of why men don't write negative reviews.

I absolutely agree that there are providers who should be in another profession.

So how do you address the underlying issues of why men sugarcoat their reviews?

[LTS00000]

I hear we have it pretty good here in Dallas. Yep, competition is always a good thing.

Originally Posted by charlestudor2005

I've read negative reviews on this board. It may be hard to find one in the Dallas section because the competition there is so fierce. Still, they do exist.

[LTS00000]

Excellent point. Here's the thing with one of the providers. She apparently thought GFE meant laying there and letting me do whatever I wanted to her. Afterwards, as I was getting ready to leave, she noted "No wonder you...... I look like shit". Well, to be honest, she was right about that. However, she seemed like a nice girl. I figured hey, sometimes you just don't click with people. This was one of those times and definitely a factor as far as I was concerned.

Originally Posted by DianaDeepthroats

"So, the guy has to ask himself, "Is telling the other hobbyists that she kind of just lay there worth making this lady hate me?" A lot of times, it's not worth it. People like to be liked!" Originally posted by China Doll

You're not going to see that provider anymore, because she wasn't worth your time in the first place, right? So, really, what diffference does it make? More times than you know, WE providers know when we're not feeling our best or didn't perform our best & a lot of time we have reason why, but.. after the session is over, we can't fix it. & You weren't satisfied.. right? Why recommend her?

It's almost the same situation as giving guys OKAY on preferred411.com. It's at our discretion, whether he was a great client or a so-so client, made you feel uncomfortable, stiffed you, whatever.. it's at our discretion, as your reviews should be. We get plenty of shit for not giving OKAYs, but we dont have to.. so, we don't. It should be the same for you guys.

I feel like if the session wasn't what you expected, as long as you don't bash her, or criticize.. it shouldn't matter. Give factual information as to why the experience wasn't what you thought it would be, maybe even, that it wasn't what the provider advertised, with FACTS, no emotions or opinions..

Actually, I'd rather you talk to ME, as a provider, about why our session wasn't what you thought it would be. I mean, everyone has their off days.. but if something is OFF, it's just not right. Period.

We are in a world, playing in a hobby, where mediocrity should not & is not supposed to be rewarded. Seriously? Is that why there are so many providers rising & falling right now? Because you guys are scared to give a "NO" recommendation & speak on a lackluster performance? Really? But, some will go as far as to speak TO a provider on the board in a thread, about their BS providing.. so that everyone can chime in.. instead of just giving her the review she deserves?

If I had enough time on my hands, I'd go look for a thread to support my claim, but.. I think I've said enough.
Have fun. Be safe.

[LTS00000]

Actually, the reason I don't pay up is my wife deals with all the bills. The last thing I need is to have to explain something like this on a credit card statement.