FREE EDWARD SNOWDEN

[CuteOldGuy]

So, revealing the secret that our government is routinely violating our Constitutional rights makes Snowden a traitor? I have a right to know if the government is spying on me without a proper search warrant. It doesn't matter who has clearance to that information, I have a right to know.

He did not give secrets to our enemies to help them. He gave information to US so we would know how our government is violating our rights without due process.

The ONLY reason he is in trouble is because he embarrassed the Obama administration, and exposed more corruption. The only "aid and comfort" he gave to our enemies was to give them a good laugh at how stupid our government is. Like that is a secret.

You Obama worshipers and statists need to look at the real world. You are patsies in the downfall of our country.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

I don't know anything about your life now, twenty years ago, or any time in between so I'm certainly not qualified to answer that question, or would on your behalf.

Ok, then tell us how the government knowing what phone numbers you've dialed has tangibly changed your life from what it was 20 years ago.

The government telling people who they can and can't marry impacts them in a tangible way. Enacting laws that impact someone's ability to vote impacts them in a tangible way. Knowing what phone numbers you've dialed, just how does that impact you in a tangible way? Please explain.

[Doove]

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I have a right to know if the government is spying on me without a proper search warrant. It doesn't matter who has clearance to that information, I have a right to know.

Yup, because now that you know.....well.....what?

[LexusLover]

Originally Posted by Doove

Knowing what phone numbers you've dialed, just how does that impact you in a tangible way? Please explain.

You got it backwards.

Government can't do it period.

Then if Government wants to do it, Government has to show why it is necessary BEFORE.

[Randy4Candy]

The only worry I have about anyone knowing what phone numbers I dial is what will happen when the Teawipe, rat wang, "saviors" of our society gain enough power to escalate the culture wars and try to put me in jail because of some dalliances I have had with some of our lovely ladies. That's about the level of low hanging fruit most of these guys (and their mothers and wives and sisters) and their thought implanters are capable of. Anything useful or important just escapes them. Probably too much reverberation in the shoulder borne echo chambers.

Let's hear it for "less gumment!"

[Doove]

Originally Posted by Randy4Candy

The only worry I have about anyone knowing what phone numbers I dial is what will happen when the Teawipe, rat wang, "saviors" of our society gain enough power to escalate the culture wars and try to put me in jail because of some dalliances I have had with some of our lovely ladies.

Fair 'nuff. And no doubt it would be an administration that JD, IB, Whirlaway and the gang all voted for.

[Old Dingus]

COG, even though you won't care and probably won't think about it, here are my comments in response.

Originally Posted by CuteOldGuy

I have a right to know if the government is spying on me without a proper search warrant. I do not see it as "SPYING." It is monitoring with search provisions for key words. The point is keeping all of us safe. That is an important concept.

I have read that you are an attorney. I am certain where ever you worked had provisions to supervise or monitor underling employees, be they young attorneys, established attorneys, or staff. It would be dereliction of duties to a client to let underlings do work without supervision. It would be practicing law without a license to allow staff to do legal work without supervision. Supervision requires monitoring. I recognize we can each grab a thersaurus and argue semantics - but that does not change my point.

I have a right to know. Yes, you do, to a point. That point does not include your knowing confidential matters that are otherwise termed "secret," "top secret," etc. The welfare of the nation is protected by keeping some things from public view.

Would you have the entire world know the launch codes and everything necesary to fire off all our weapons? If not, then we have a small amount of agreement, which I suggest could be termed non-release of select information for the public good.

He did not give secrets to our enemies to help them. I guess only Snowden knows the truth about what he hoped to accomplish, but serious harm to our Nation is where I get active. IT DID BENEFIT OUR ENEMIES. Let's again avoid semantics; China and Russia are enemies. They are competitors with desires to harm and eventually destroy our culture. Again, skip semantics. I do not refer to every peasant laboring in the rural areas, but the party leaders are against us.

The ONLY reason he is in trouble is because he embarrassed the Obama administration, and exposed more corruption. Snowden is in trouble with me because he violated the oath he took when he started working and violated the trust and exxpected loyalty to our country.

The only "aid and comfort" he gave to our enemies was to give them a good laugh at how stupid our government is. If you really believe that, then I will not even comment.

You Obama worshipers and statists need to look at the real world. You are patsies in the downfall of our country.

While I cannot speak for anyone else, I can tell you I despise that son-of -a-bitch Obama. I respect the office he holds and I respect him as Commander-in-Chief of our military, but I think he is a liar, a charletan, a sell-out, a minority manipulator, and possibly not an American citizen.

It makes no difference who the person is when we are talking about issues of this importance. When you sell out the United States, it is treason and deserves the maximum penalty (yes, after a fair trial...).

As an extra comment, I saw an author being interviewed on televison a week or so ago (sorry I can not remember his name). He is apparently a highly respected authority on George Washington and is about to publish a very comprehensive book on Washington. The reported asked how the author though George Washington would have reacted to Snowden. Witrhout hesitation, the author replied that Washington would have had him shot and that it would have occured quickly.

They could not tolerate traitors then and we cannot now.

Our freedoms are the greatness of our country and you remain free to gripe, rant, and complain about the things with which you disagree. People like Snowden damage those freedoms.

Old Dingus

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Old Dingus

COG, even though you won't care and probably won't think about it, here are my comments in response.

While I cannot speak for anyone else, I can tell you I despise that son-of -a-bitch Obama. I respect the office he holds and I respect him as Commander-in-Chief of our military, but I think he is a liar, a charletan, a sell-out, a minority manipulator, and possibly not an American citizen.

It makes no difference who the person is when we are talking about issues of this importance. When you sell out the United States, it is treason and deserves the maximum penalty (yes, after a fair trial...).

As an extra comment, I saw an author being interviewed on televison a week or so ago (sorry I can not remember his name). He is apparently a highly respected authority on George Washington and is about to publish a very comprehensive book on Washington. The reported asked how the author though George Washington would have reacted to Snowden. Witrhout hesitation, the author replied that Washington would have had him shot and that it would have occured quickly.

They could not tolerate traitors then and we cannot now.

Our freedoms are the greatness of our country and you remain free to gripe, rant, and complain about the things with which you disagree. People like Snowden damage those freedoms.

Old Dingus

COF doesn't want safety, he wants liberty so he can enjoy his freedom when hes dead..

[Laz]

Originally Posted by Old Dingus

COG, even though you won't care and probably won't think about it, here are my comments in response.

While I cannot speak for anyone else, I can tell you I despise that son-of -a-bitch Obama. I respect the office he holds and I respect him as Commander-in-Chief of our military, but I think he is a liar, a charletan, a sell-out, a minority manipulator, and possibly not an American citizen.

It makes no difference who the person is when we are talking about issues of this importance. When you sell out the United States, it is treason and deserves the maximum penalty (yes, after a fair trial...).

As an extra comment, I saw an author being interviewed on televison a week or so ago (sorry I can not remember his name). He is apparently a highly respected authority on George Washington and is about to publish a very comprehensive book on Washington. The reported asked how the author though George Washington would have reacted to Snowden. Witrhout hesitation, the author replied that Washington would have had him shot and that it would have occured quickly.

They could not tolerate traitors then and we cannot now.

Our freedoms are the greatness of our country and you remain free to gripe, rant, and complain about the things with which you disagree. People like Snowden damage those freedoms.

Old Dingus

I agree with this response and would add that people are getting upset about the government storing copies of data that the phone companies have and keep as a routine part of business. I assume that the only difference is the government plans to retain the data longer than the phone companies would have. Just because the data is in a database does not mean anyone is looking at it. It would not be possible to have people routinely monitoring all of the data. There is simply too much of it. So the gripe is simply that the data is in a government database instead of a private companies database. Would people be happier if the government just required the phone companies to retain the data for a specified period of time in case they needed to check a terrorists past activities as well as those he interacted with? I might agree with that since I think private companies try to find the lowest costs of doing things where the government does not.

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by Laz

I agree with this response and would add that people are getting upset about the government storing copies of data that the phone companies have and keep as a routine part of business. I assume that the only difference is the government plans to retain the data longer than the phone companies would have. Just because the data is in a database does not mean anyone is looking at it. It would not be possible to have people routinely monitoring all of the data. There is simply too much of it. So the gripe is simply that the data is in a government database instead of a private companies database. Would people be happier if the government just required the phone companies to retain the data for a specified period of time in case they needed to check a terrorists past activities as well as those he interacted with? I might agree with that since I think private companies try to find the lowest costs of doing things where the government does not.

What about the half million non-vetted civilian contractors that have access to this same data? They also have your email history and your internet history and the capability of using this data to harm you, it's not just phone records and it's not all government employees. Is it that far fetched to believe that another one of these dropout contractors will not do something devious with this data?

My favorite is that the same people that think this is no problem whatsoever are the first to scream bloody murder when a police officer, boots on the ground, life in possible danger is standing face-to-face with a possible terrorist in this country illegally, and wants to ask for that person to prove he is an American. Oh no, how dare we even think of asking a foreign looking muslim to prove he is here legally. But go ahead spy on us Americans, nothing wrong with trampling on our rights as long as we are protecting the illegal muslims with no rights at all. On principle, I disagree with spying on us, but it might taste a little better if they actually did everything that was needed to stop muslim attacks as well.

[Old-T]

Originally Posted by Old Dingus

COG, even though you won't care and probably won't think about it, here are my comments in response.

While I cannot speak for anyone else, I can tell you I despise that son-of -a-bitch Obama. I respect the office he holds and I respect him as Commander-in-Chief of our military, but I think he is a liar, a charletan, a sell-out, a minority manipulator, and possibly not an American citizen.

It makes no difference who the person is when we are talking about issues of this importance. When you sell out the United States, it is treason and deserves the maximum penalty (yes, after a fair trial...).

As an extra comment, I saw an author being interviewed on televison a week or so ago (sorry I can not remember his name). He is apparently a highly respected authority on George Washington and is about to publish a very comprehensive book on Washington. The reported asked how the author though George Washington would have reacted to Snowden. Witrhout hesitation, the author replied that Washington would have had him shot and that it would have occured quickly.

They could not tolerate traitors then and we cannot now.

Our freedoms are the greatness of our country and you remain free to gripe, rant, and complain about the things with which you disagree. People like Snowden damage those freedoms.

Old Dingus

Very well said.

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

What about the half million non-vetted civilian contractors that have access to this same data? They also have your email history and your internet history and the capability of using this data to harm you, it's not just phone records and it's not all government employees. Is it that far fetched to believe that another one of these dropout contractors will not do something devious with this data?

My favorite is that the same people that think this is no problem whatsoever are the first to scream bloody murder when a police officer, boots on the ground, life in possible danger is standing face-to-face with a possible terrorist in this country illegally, and wants to ask for that person to prove he is an American. Oh no, how dare we even think of asking a foreign looking muslim to prove he is here legally. But go ahead spy on us Americans, nothing wrong with trampling on our rights as long as we are protecting the illegal muslims with no rights at all. On principle, I disagree with spying on us, but it might taste a little better if they actually did everything that was needed to stop muslim attacks as well.

how can you watch muslims without watching everyone around them too? they dress ameircan, drive American cars and look the part .. what if a natural born Caucasian was hanging out with a muzzie terrorist group ? I aint buying the special treatment for muzzie crapola, sorry

[nwarounder]

Originally Posted by CJ7

how can you watch muslims without watching everyone around them too? they dress ameircan, drive American cars and look the part .. what if a natural born Caucasian was hanging out with a muzzie terrorist group ? I aint buying the special treatment for muzzie crapola, sorry

Several states passed laws to do just that and the federal government stepped in and sued them. What are you not buying, it's public knowledge.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39413.html to link just one
"The federal government filed a lawsuit Tuesday aimed at blocking a controversial Arizona law that requires local police and sheriffs to question and arrest anyone whom they suspect is in the country illegally."
So you are okay with private contractors having access to your internet, email, and phone records but you are not okay with a police officer verifying you are an American citizen?

[Old Dingus]

Originally Posted by nwarounder

So you are okay with private contractors having access to your internet, email, and phone records but you are not okay with a police officer verifying you are an American citizen?

I have no problem with law enforcement asking for my Id. I would voluntarily wait while the law enforcement works through evryone in a line. I have no problem with all the things added to airport rules since 9-11.

The population of Israel has lived with those rules for years. The United States needs to catch up with Israel in security procedures for the general population (like reporting unattended luggage or packages).

I am conservative and believe rules are the foundation of a society. Rules help it function.

Old Dingus

[CJ7]

Originally Posted by Old Dingus

I have no problem with law enforcement asking for my Id. I would voluntarily wait while the law enforcement works through evryone in a line. I have no problem with all the things added to airport rules since 9-11.

The population of Israel has lived with those rules for years. The United States needs to catch up with Israel in security procedures for the general population (like reporting unattended luggage or packages).

I am conservative and believe rules are the foundation of a society. Rules help it function.

Old Dingus

yup. parrot here.